Oldest departure screens

[wimbledonpete]

The thing that (very mildly) annoys me about the refurbished Earl's Court sign is that they mixed up the old order of destinations. Regular travellers, for as long as I can remember, knew the order from top to bottom as Ealing Broadway, Wimbledon, Putney Bridge, Olympia and Richmond, with a couple of less used ones on the adjacent board (Ealing Common/Parsons Green, maybe also Special or Stops Here, which was the District's way of saying "Terminates").

I guess as Putney Bridge terminators no longer exist and Olympias don't come along very often it's fair enough!

 

[Harpo]

Similar to the modernised old style Earls Court boards, other locations had boards where the illuminated arrow also showed a number such as <-1, or <-2 or <-3 to indicated the sequence of the next three trains. Probably none of those left anywhere. I remember them well everywhere along the District & Circle between Earls Court and Tower Hill.

I also recall in the past a standalone illuminated single sign with an arrow on the island at Tower Hill that only said ‘First Train Out’.

It was very handy when there was nothing except the air operated points or signal aspects to tell you whether the train stood in the terminal platform or the next through westbound would go first.

If time allowed and and the choice was between the utterly vile C stock and CO/CP or R stock, it could be ignored!

 

[starlight73]

I wonder whether any Solari type (split flap) indicators remain in use in the UK and if not, where the nearest is in Europe...

possibly Paris Gare Du Nord (not sure how old that display is or if it’s still around) - this is a photo from 2007:

File:Gare du Nord Fallblattanzeiger Departure-board.JPG - Wikimedia Commons

commons.wikimedia.org

 

[Bletchleyite]

possibly Paris Gare Du Nord (not sure how old that display is or if it’s still around) - this is a photo from 2007:

File:Gare du Nord Fallblattanzeiger Departure-board.JPG - Wikimedia Commons

commons.wikimedia.org

Interesting that the word "Internet" is used at the bottom in the notes - the word probably didn't exist when that was installed.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

possibly Paris Gare Du Nord (not sure how old that display is or if it’s still around) - this is a photo from 2007:

File:Gare du Nord Fallblattanzeiger Departure-board.JPG - Wikimedia Commons

commons.wikimedia.org

Was that really the complete service from Gare du Nord? Just 20 departures over a period of 9 hours, with a gap over over 4 hours between 7 am an 11:30 am? I don't know French railways that well, but I thought Gare do Nord was a more important station than that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Was that really the complete service from Gare du Nord? Just 20 departures over a period of 9 hours, with a gap over over 4 hours between 7 am an 11:30 am?

No, of course not. I'm not quite sure why the top two are on there still, perhaps they are delayed.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

The thing that (very mildly) annoys me about the refurbished Earl's Court sign is that they mixed up the old order of destinations. Regular travellers, for as long as I can remember, knew the order from top to bottom as Ealing Broadway, Wimbledon, Putney Bridge, Olympia and Richmond, with a couple of less used ones on the adjacent board (Ealing Common/Parsons Green, maybe also Special or Stops Here, which was the District's way of saying "Terminates").

I guess as Putney Bridge terminators no longer exist and Olympias don't come along very often it's fair enough!

I did wonder about the order of destinations, since there seems to be no logic to it. It's not alphabetical and also not geographical - which are the two possibilities that would have made sense to me. After reading your post I can see that the most frequent destinations are all grouped together on the right, but other than that it all seems totally random. Probably not that much of an issue since the main intended use is that your eye gets drawn to wherever the lit arrow is, but does give the impression that no thought has been put into that aspect. (Only a minor detraction though from that it is really good that they have preserved the display)

 

[teethduck]

Barnsley station still has a CRT screen in waiting area for platform 2 from 2007. Can't be many of these still around.

(my first ever post as I finally have something useful to contribute but) Spital still has one!

 

[zwk500]

possibly Paris Gare Du Nord (not sure how old that display is or if it’s still around) - this is a photo from 2007:

File:Gare du Nord Fallblattanzeiger Departure-board.JPG - Wikimedia Commons

commons.wikimedia.org

I'm pretty sure the last time I travelled through (in 2022) and from the pictures from the recent disruption it's been replaced with a digital display.

Was that really the complete service from Gare du Nord? Just 20 departures over a period of 9 hours, with a gap over over 4 hours between 7 am an 11:30 am? I don't know French railways that well, but I thought Gare do Nord was a more important station than that.

No, of course not. I'm not quite sure why the top two are on there still, perhaps they are delayed.

Given the time given on the Clock in the lower right hand corner is 14:26 and there's about half a dozen services shown as earlier departure times than that, it was either a quite bad day for SNCF, the board got stuck, or a trick of the camera on either the clock or displays (all are very possible!).

 

[satisnek]

That style of display was installed in the mid-1980s, a few are still around the network, Bakerloo, Piccadilly and District stations have some examples. The non-updated versions only show upper case lettering and are few in number.

I can remember being confused by the 1981 edition of the BBC's The Rock 'n' Roll Years (first aired in 1994) which included a scene of an Underground station platform (I think it was surface or sub-surface) which showed one of those LED dot matrix displays. At the time I was surprised that they existed as early as 1981 but when I saw a repeat transmission I formed the impression that the footage was actually from some years later.

But it's fascinating to know that some are still around!

 

[tumbledown]

one of those LED dot matrix displays. At the time I was surprised that they existed as early as 1981

I can confirm that LEDs were around in 1981. I still have the calculator to prove it.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I can confirm that LEDs were around in 1981. I still have the calculator to prove it.

I also remember LEDs being around at that time. I believe late 1980 was when I first became interested in computers and bought some AND and OR gates, some switches, and some LEDs to try and make logic circuits at home. A quick Google suggests the first commercially viable LEDs were around in the 1960s, but I'm sure they weren't common then. There's also quite a step from individual LEDs useful in calculator screens to usable dot matrix displays that are bright enough to be visible from a distance in stations - and I'm guessing those only came somewhat later: I certainly don't recall ever seeing any dot matrix displays in stations in the early 1980s.

As an aside, my first calculator would also have dated from - I reckon about 1979 - and must have had an LED display. Sadly I no longer have it (and don't know what happened to it), but I do still have and use a calculator that I believe I bought in the late 80s or early 90s. It's still working absolutely fine - and I don't even recall having ever needed to change the battery!

 

[tumbledown]

You are probably right about the maturity of the technology. Old catalogues at

ELECTRONICS CATALOGS: Allied Heathkit Olsen and others

A collection of consumer and professional electronics supply catalogs from Allied, Heathkit, Radio Shack and others.

www.worldradiohistory.com

for anyone wishing to wander further off topic

 

[WirralLine]

Barnsley station still has a CRT screen in waiting area for platform 2 from 2007. Can't be many of these still around.

(my first ever post as I finally have something useful to contribute but) Spital still has one!

There are a few on Merseyrail definitely, Spital has one as does Bromborough in the booking hall. I think Birkenhead Central still does in the booking hall too.

Not old, but even the large LED platform displays Arriva Trains Wales installed across their network are being phased out now (the ones with the teal colour case), replaced with smaller black cased models with white LEDs. Annoying as the older ones were bigger and easier to read from a distance.

 

[Annetts key]

In the 1980s, LEDs used outside were no match for the natural daylight light level, even on a bright but cloudy day.

Hence why many stations in the 1980s (and onwards) were provided with CRT customer information systems (CIS). CRTs still being popular due to their relatively low cost until domestic TV production moved away from CRTs.

Of course, the larger CIS systems used other technologies.

Older designs of calculators used either red LED displays or, green or blue-green Vacuum Fluorescent Displays (VFD). LEDs were first marketed in 1962, but it was much later before they were were cheap enough for mass market items like calculators.

 

[teethduck]

In the 1980s, LEDs used outside were no match for the natural daylight light level, even on a bright but cloudy day.

Hence why many stations in the 1980s (and onwards) were provided with CRT customer information systems (CIS). CRTs still being popular due to their relatively low cost until domestic TV production moved away from CRTs.

Of course, the larger CIS systems used other technologies.

Older designs of calculators used either red LED displays or, green or blue-green Vacuum Fluorescent Displays (VFD). LEDs were first marketed in 1962, but it was much later before they were were cheap enough for mass market items like calculators.

When were the dot-matrix LED screens first installed on the railway? Always been slightly curious! The Merseyrail ones all have slightly different interfaces annoyingly with the destination of the upcoming train in larger lettering on some stations then in standard on others

 

[edwin_m]

In the 1980s, LEDs used outside were no match for the natural daylight light level, even on a bright but cloudy day.

Hence why many stations in the 1980s (and onwards) were provided with CRT customer information systems (CIS). CRTs still being popular due to their relatively low cost until domestic TV production moved away from CRTs.

Of course, the larger CIS systems used other technologies.

Older designs of calculators used either red LED displays or, green or blue-green Vacuum Fluorescent Displays (VFD). LEDs were first marketed in 1962, but it was much later before they were were cheap enough for mass market items like calculators.

Previously there was the flip dot display, used for station depature boards and also some bus destination displays, but only really good for fairly large type. Each pixel was a flap with a fluoreascent green on one side and black on the other, and there must have been some sort of carriage that went to and fro behind it flipping them over. These seemed to work reasonably well but sometimes dots would get stuck.

LCD displays were used on some station and also train displays, having a matrix of triangles that could light up greenish. These seemed pretty horrible.

 

[DelW]

Older designs of calculators used either red LED displays or, green or blue-green Vacuum Fluorescent Displays (VFD). LEDs were first marketed in 1962, but it was much later before they were were cheap enough for mass market items like calculators.

I bought my first calculator in early 1974, which had a red LED display. It was too faint to read in sunlight, and got through so many batteries that I added a mains adaptor within a few weeks.

In 1978 I bought an LCD display calculator which I could read in sunlight, though that generation of technology didn't seem to make it into departure screens.

CRT screens seemed to last much longer on stations, possibly because they could use colour.

 

[Annetts key]

Previously there was the flip dot display, used for station depature boards and also some bus destination displays, but only really good for fairly large type. Each pixel was a flap with a fluoreascent green on one side and black on the other, and there must have been some sort of carriage that went to and fro behind it flipping them over. These seemed to work reasonably well but sometimes dots would get stuck.

There were likely various systems that looked similar. I only know about some types.

I saw the innards of the segment magnetic type. A small electromagnetic device could flip a segment to show either nothing (blank/black) or a fluorescent colour. The segment could be a pixel, a segment (like a seven segment number) or a complete character or symbol. These were jam packed with electronic driver boards. Typically they were internally illuminated with a fluorescent tube.

 

[satisnek]

I can confirm that LEDs were around in 1981. I still have the calculator to prove it.

Yes, LEDs were indeed around in 1981 - red, orange, yellow and (yellowish) green - I remember them well. But they weren't suitable for station platform displays which needed something a whole lot brighter.

 

[317362]

Is there still a fairly old Next Train Out tube 'arrow' sign or similar at Uxbridge or did I dream that?

 

[NeilCr]

No idea whether it is still there but there used to be a next westbound train sign at Upminster Station

"Lighthouse sign?"

 

[Dstock7080]

No idea whether it is still there but there used to be a next westbound train sign at Upminster Station

"Lighthouse sign?"

Lightbox, and replaced by more modern signs.

 

[Gathursty]

IIRC Machynlleth waiting room has an old style CRT screen.

 

[starlight73]

BaRon’s court tube station also had lightbox style signs - they’re still there now but not functional.

photo shows a London Underground district line D stock train arriving at Barons Court. Next to a black board that is lit up saying ‘Next train: Richmond’.

Photo by Martin Addison, reproduction allowed under CC-BY-SA 2.0 license, https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1789185

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

Is there still a fairly old Next Train Out tube 'arrow' sign or similar at Uxbridge or did I dream that?

Yes it's still in use. I think there is one at Cockfosters to.

 

[Taunton]

I wonder whether any Solari type (split flap) indicators remain in use in the UK and if not, where the nearest is in Europe...

They were a mechanical nightmare, and a principal thing that finished them off was absence of spares. They were driven behind the scenes by many bicycle-chain mechanisms, and I believe the larger installations needed not only their own fitter, but one on each shift, and they needed a workplace with stores, bench and tools, etc, (along with Letraset for new flaps) such was the adjustment required. There were walkways behind the board to give the fitter access to jammed flaps etc.

The Southern Region (for they went back to those times) fitted in the bottom rows "Delayed due to/Cancelled due to ...", followed on the last line by a sequence of "Staff shortage/Vandalism/Bad Weather/Train failure ..." and a whole lot more. When the display needed resetting they would all cycle through, in front of all on the concourse, generally to laughter. This sequencing was the inspiration for the BBC scriptwriter of 'the 'Reginald Perrin' series, where every week he would arrive at work late, giving one of the excuses which became more implausible as the weeks passed - "Escaped puma Chessington North" was one classic.

Yes it's still in use. I think there is one at Cockfosters to.

There's a Next Train arrow westbound on the Circle at Tower Hill, where a starter waiting in the bay may or may not be preceding those running through alongside.

 

[notverydeep]

They were a mechanical nightmare, and a principal thing that finished them off was absence of spares. They were driven behind the scenes by many bicycle-chain mechanisms, and I believe the larger installations needed not only their own fitter, but one on each shift, and they needed a workplace with stores, bench and tools, etc, (along with Letraset for new flaps) such was the adjustment required. There were walkways behind the board to give the fitter access to jammed flaps etc.

Sounds like a nightmare. They seem to have slipped quietly away, with none preserved or listed for heritage reasons, in the manner of the Next Train arrow light boxes at Earls Court. Does anyone know if the one at Gare Du Nord in Paris is still extant / in use?

 

[tfw756rider]

Interesting that the word "Internet" is used at the bottom in the notes - the word probably didn't exist when that was installed.

June 1945:

The NCS may refuse a secondary station permission to leave the net to transmit a message and direct that the internet message be handled by relay.

December 1974:

SPECIFICATION OF INTERNET TRANSMISSION CONTROL PROGRAM

December 1974 Version

...but yes, certainly not in common usage (or likely to be displayed on that board) like it was after access to the internet's popular World Wide Web service (invented in 1989) became accessible to the average person in the mid-to-late 90s

 

[zuriblue]

I'd imagine there's some closer in Germany or Switzerland, but some places in Czechia still have "Pragotron" ones. Kralupy nad Vltavou station was like stepping back in time to the 70s!

The split flap displays are all gone from SBB and BLS but I think the Matterhorn Gotthard Bahn still has split flaps.