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Oldham byelection and impact on Jeremy Corbyn

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Tetchytyke

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Labour's vote share went up 7% in Oldham and Royton last night.

What was that about UKIP being a threat again? :lol: :lol:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And Radio 4 can be like a Labour Party broadcast at times.

Five years ago possibly, but not now the far-right Britain First sympathisers Nick Robinson- who was president of the Oxford University Conservative Association- is the lead presenter.
 
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DarloRich

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majority down though. It is hardly the ringing endorsement of Corbynian policies that his supporters suggest.

We SHOULD have a huge majority in Oldham.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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:lol: :lol: I must admit that result came as a pleasant surprise :lol: :lol:

Oldham West and Royton is the third named constituency that covers the current geographical area since the middle of the last century. If you are in any way aware of the diverse ethnic background to the electorate, you will note that this has been seen as something of a Labour stronghold for 50 years and it was the media who made their usual mistake of transposing their wishes for dramatic headlines over actual reality who were the ones left with "egg on their faces".
 

RichmondCommu

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Oldham West and Royton is the third named constituency that covers the current geographical area since the middle of the last century. If you are in any way aware of the diverse ethnic background to the electorate, you will note that this has been seen as something of a Labour stronghold for 50 years and it was the media who made their usual mistake of transposing their wishes for dramatic headlines over actual reality who were the ones left with "egg on their faces".

Yes Paul I am and indeed you make a very good point. However in recent times UKIP have been eating into Labour's majorities in similar constituency's.
 

Tetchytyke

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It's good to see Nigel "I'm not racist" Farage is muttering darkly about "riggecd elections" because non-white people got a vote too.

He suggested part of the problem was due to "big ethnic changes" in the way people were voting, with "some streets where no one spoke English", but people were voting Labour.

"They can't speak English. They've never heard of UKIP or the Conservative Party. They've never even heard of Jeremy Corbyn," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.
"It means effectively - in some of these seats where people don't speak English, but they're signed up to postal votes - effectively the electoral process is now dead."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35003152

What an absolutely vile human being.
 

meridian2

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I think you'll find the BBC, with its leftist agenda, has twisted Mr Farage's comments to indicate the rigged votes were due to 'ethnicity'. Perhaps a degree of reading between the lines is needed here.
 

St Rollox

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A good strong Labour win in a safe seat.
Obviously the PMs remarks about terrorist sympathisers didn't wash in Oldham.
 

WelshBluebird

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A good strong Labour win in a safe seat.
Obviously the PMs remarks about terrorist sympathisers didn't wash in Oldham.

Not sure you can judge too much on a by-election in a safe seat tbh. Especially one where Labour were very clever in the person they picked to stand (from what I have read a fair amount of people voted for him because of him, not because of Labour).
 

St Rollox

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Not sure you can judge too much on a by-election in a safe seat tbh. Especially one where Labour were very clever in the person they picked to stand (from what I have read a fair amount of people voted for him because of him, not because of Labour).

Correct it's hard to judge especially looking in from another country.
 

Arglwydd Golau

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Not sure you can judge too much on a by-election in a safe seat tbh. Especially one where Labour were very clever in the person they picked to stand (from what I have read a fair amount of people voted for him because of him, not because of Labour).

Well, you can guarantee that if Labour had done badly an awful lot would have been read into the result, but because they haven't the attitude is ' it's a safe seat and therefore they were bound to win'. It is a much more convincing win for the sitting party than a number of recent byelection results.
 

ainsworth74

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Five years ago possibly, but not now the far-right Britain First sympathisers Nick Robinson- who was president of the Oxford University Conservative Association- is the lead presenter.

I think you'll find the BBC, with its leftist agenda, has twisted Mr Farage's comments to indicate the rigged votes were due to 'ethnicity'. Perhaps a degree of reading between the lines is needed here.

So wait, are the BBC left wing or right wing? I'm confused...
 

WelshBluebird

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So wait, are the BBC left wing or right wing? I'm confused...

As I have said before the fact that the BBC seem to always get accused of being both biased towards the left and biased towards the right at the same time probably suggest on a whole they do a half decent job at representing all viewpoints!
 

Oswyntail

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If UKIP had won, instead of being annihilated, you can bet your bottom dollar the rent-a-Tories at the BBC would be judging everything on the by-election.
As would anyone sane, as it would have been a seismic event.
As it is, there is still a residual "new manager" effect aiding Corbyn. He has fudged a few decisions and said some stupid things, but he is still learning the responsibility that comes with the job (and, remember, responsibility is still new to him as a concept). Sooner or later he will have to start attempting actually to lead his party. Best of luck to him!
 

NSEFAN

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WelshBluebird said:
As I have said before the fact that the BBC seem to always get accused of being both biased towards the left and biased towards the right at the same time probably suggest on a whole they do a half decent job at representing all viewpoints!
Indeed. Labour and Conservative =/= Left and Right wing respectively.
 

Mojo

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A good strong Labour win in a safe seat.
Obviously the PMs remarks about terrorist sympathisers didn't wash in Oldham.

I'm glad that Corbyn won. I think he has the potential to do good, and has already done a number of things. Had Labour's man not have won, that would have weakened Corbyn and therefore I am glad that he did win. I also oppose Ukip.

Having made that 'disclaimer' I certainly agree with some commentators and political party officials that there is something fishy about the results. Many things that have been alledged do not sit right with me, and I think it is right that these claims are investigated, if not on legal grounds, on moral grounds.
 

Amberley54

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I think you'll find the BBC, with its leftist agenda, has twisted Mr Farage's comments to indicate the rigged votes were due to 'ethnicity'. Perhaps a degree of reading between the lines is needed here.

The BBC will always appear to have a 'leftist' agenda when set against the 'rightist' foreign-owned print media in the UK.

Or perhaps it just tries to be objective, something The Barclay Brothers, Murdoch, Rothermere etc detest as it challenges their warped worldview. Therefore, they persistently lobby to hobble the BBC at every opportunity.
 

Mojo

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The BBC will always appear to have a 'leftist' agenda when set against the 'rightist' foreign-owned print media in the UK.

Or perhaps it just tries to be objective, something The Barclay Brothers, Murdoch, Rothermere etc detest as it challenges their warped worldview. Therefore, they persistently lobby to hobble the BBC at every opportunity.

I would probably say that they want to change the BBC because fewer competitors means they have more customers and make more profit, rather than as some sort of conspiracy to alter the views of the nation.

Many issues we are currently discussing I don't see them as left wing vs right wing. Take the EU membership debate for instance, there are plenty of left wing organisations and individuals who think we should leave the EU. This includes anti-privatisation campaigners, trade unionists who believe that it is bad for workers' rights, environmentalists, and those opposed to globalisation & "unfair" trade agreements. Yet the last few discussions on the EU I have heard on the BBC have had some crackpot right winger representing the "anti" camp.
 

DynamicSpirit

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What an absolutely vile human being.
We can at least agree on that!

Not all of us. I find many of Nigel Farage's views highly unpleasant, and he leads a party that - so far as I can tell - often seems unable to distinguish fact from fiction. But having different views from oneself does not make a person a 'vile human being'. I'm guessing that none of us know Nigel Farage personally, so for all any of us know, he could well be an extremely nice, considerate, human being in his personal life, who just happens to think differently from you and I. I don't think crude insults like 'vile human being' are in general appropriate in these discussions, and, unless you know a person very well personally, they are likely to be wrong anyway.

Having said all that, in the light of what happened in the byelection, this Daily Express article makes quite amusing reading (Sorry, I know many people here will want to disinfect themselves after clicking the link ;) ):

DailyExpress said:
NIGEL Farage has warned Jeremy Corbyn that he will end his career as Labour leader as the Ukip leader said his party is closing in on a shock victory in the Oldham West by-election.
 

Tetchytyke

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One can only judge a person by their public behaviour. And Farage's behaviour is that of a vile human being.

As for the BBC, I think it tends to generally bias slightly to the small-c conservative, which is no bad thing, but certain influential people- such as Robinson- are rabidly right wing
 

Clip

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One can only judge a person by their public behaviour. And Farage's behaviour is that of a vile human being.

As for the BBC, I think it tends to generally bias slightly to the small-c conservative, which is no bad thing, but certain influential people- such as Robinson- are rabidly right wing

Its always humorous seeing peoples views of the beeb which generally boils down to 'If they don't say/do anything I agree with then they must bat for the other side'

Of course their flagship currant affairs programme being led by the ex dep editor of the Guardian always gets missed by some, along with other high profile people who have a left leaning ilk.
 

miami

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Its always humorous seeing peoples views of the beeb which generally boils down to 'If they don't say/do anything I agree with then they must bat for the other side'

Of course their flagship currant affairs programme being led by the ex dep editor of the Guardian always gets missed by some, along with other high profile people who have a left leaning ilk.

Of course his boss used to be editor of The Times.
 

RichmondCommu

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Not all of us. I find many of Nigel Farage's views highly unpleasant, and he leads a party that - so far as I can tell - often seems unable to distinguish fact from fiction. But having different views from oneself does not make a person a 'vile human being'. I'm guessing that none of us know Nigel Farage personally, so for all any of us know, he could well be an extremely nice, considerate, human being in his personal life, who just happens to think differently from you and I. I don't think crude insults like 'vile human being' are in general appropriate in these discussions, and, unless you know a person very well personally, they are likely to be wrong anyway.

Assuming that what Nigel Farage said has been reported accurately his views appear to be no different to that of Adam Walker and his mob otherwise known as the BNP. My wife's parents live on the edge of Nelson and have been racially abused by members of the BNP in the past, causing great upset and distress. As a consequence I consider them and the rest of their party to be vile human beings. I would be interested to know whether in this instance you believe that I'm making a "crude insult" and whether you would make a similar "crude insult" if your own family were being racially attacked.
 

DynamicSpirit

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Assuming that what Nigel Farage said has been reported accurately his views appear to be no different to that of Adam Walker and his mob otherwise known as the BNP. My wife's parents live on the edge of Nelson and have been racially abused by members of the BNP in the past, causing great upset and distress.

Very sad to hear that :( I can imaging being at the receiving end of such abuse would be extremely distressful.

As a consequence I consider them and the rest of their party to be vile human beings. I would be interested to know whether in this instance you believe that I'm making a "crude insult" and whether you would make a similar "crude insult" if your own family were being racially attacked.

I think I would always consider 'vile human being' to be a crude insult. If I had myself been subject to the kind of abuse you've described, I might well use it myself in the heat of the moment, but I'd probably regret having done so later. I would suggest there are two important distinctions to be made here:

Firstly, the distinction between actions and a person. I don't see any problem in describing the action of racially abusing someone as vile. But to go on from that to describe the person as 'vile' seems wrong to me. When you start viewing people in that kind of way, then I would suggest that you're falling into the very same trap that leads to racial abuse and so many other problems in the first place. When you describe a person (as opposed to an action) as vile, you are implying that there is something less worthy about that person. Which is of course exactly what leads to racism. How many wars have started, and how much persecution has happened throughout history because one group of people became convinced that another group of people were in some way less worthy as human beings? Closer to home, how much hatred gets stirred up because tabloid papers routinely describe people they don't like using that kind of language? So no, I would urge you not to fall into that trap.

I personally want to see a World where people always treat each other with respect and consideration, and where everyone is valued as a human being. That's after all the fundamental reason why I'm in the Labour Party. And I'm guessing you would like to see the same thing. I know that's very idealistic and is not going to happen any time soon, but it's the direction I want to see society move in. But you're certainly not going to get there if you start thinking of some human beings as 'vile' - that's the kind of thinking that moves you in the opposite direction - towards conflict and a world where people are routinely marginalized and persecuted. (And ironically is exactly BNP-type thinking!). Condemn the action, not the person.

Secondly, the distinction between views and actions is important. Nigel Farage clearly holds opinions that you and I find unpleasant, but I'm not aware of him ever having been reported as directly racially abusing any individuals. Because of that, I don't think your comparison of his comments with the atrocious actions of members of the BNP that you've mentioned is entirely fair. I'm guessing the comments you are referring to are these (The Independent)

NigelFarage said:
I'm commenting on the state of modern Britain, post mass immigration. It means effectively that in some of these seats where people don't speak English and they sign up to postal votes, effectively the electoral process is now dead.

You may or may not agree with that comment (and I personally I do have some suspicion that it's motivated in part by sour grapes), but suggesting that there could be issues with people who don't speak English being able to understand what they are voting for seems a very long way from racially abusing people. (Or did Farage say something else that I've missed?)
 
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