On Train WiFi

[jon0844]

5G devices will ship early 2019 and will have support for 2G, 3G and 4G.

I am sure the SIMs are provisioned for 800MHz (band 20) because they're both contract and also data only. The restriction is only on voice SIMs due to the need for VoLTE (4G voice calling) that for some reason EE doesn't seem able to manage on prepay.

 

[jon0844]

Anybody know why the WiFi on Eurostar is so feeble? Both very slow and fading in and out, both sides of the channel. Have given up trying to use it.

Poor coverage for mobile, as shown by their own maps. A lot of rural France seems poorly covered by the network(s) Eurostar has used.

I get loads of dead spots on my own phone.

 

[Aictos]

Poor coverage for mobile, as shown by their own maps. A lot of rural France seems poorly covered by the network(s) Eurostar has used.

I get loads of dead spots on my own phone.

I can't comment on France but when I first started visiting Germany, my UK provider had a roaming agreement with what was then E Plus which had poor coverage in Berlin which is surprising as it's the capital and you expect pretty good coverage.

They then changed the roaming agreement to Telekom Deutschland and coverage vastly improved.

5G devices will ship early 2019 and will have support for 2G, 3G and 4G.

I am sure the SIMs are provisioned for 800MHz (band 20) because they're both contract and also data only. The restriction is only on voice SIMs due to the need for VoLTE (4G voice calling) that for some reason EE doesn't seem able to manage on prepay.

However they will no doubt be marketed and sold at high prices such as the latest Samsung and Apple models so nothing below £500 so hopefully you still get other manufacturers such as Huawei able to offer a product at a fraction of the over priced Apple/Samsung models but with a spec just as good.

The other issue with VoLTE as well is if I am a EE customer coming from Vodafone with a unlocked iPhone 8 then I can use EE's VoLTE offering however if I do the same but with a Android model then I can't unless I have brought the Android model from EE themselves which is pretty stupid.

Ad to the sims being Data only, what needs to be done to ensure they offer Voice too?

Back to onboard Wifi, I'm currently using the XC offering and it was pretty fast connecting but the 70MB for 2 hours seems rather draconian!

 

[jon0844]

Plenty of Android phones now have universal settings so you don't need an EE branded/supplied phone to use VoLTE.

My Mate 20 Pro is a global ROM and supports VoLTE and VoWiFi on both my EE and Vodafone SIMs (dual 4G SIM model). It also works with Three and I expect O2 too.

 

[Aictos]

Plenty of Android phones now have universal settings so you don't need an EE branded/supplied phone to use VoLTE.

My Mate 20 Pro is a global ROM and supports VoLTE and VoWiFi on both my EE and Vodafone SIMs (dual 4G SIM model). It also works with Three and I expect O2 too.

Let me point you in the direction of EE which kinda of disagrees with your point:

To use 4G Calling you'll need:

1. to be in an area with EE 4G coverage
   
2. an EE pay monthly plan on one of these phones bought from any retailer*, including EE:
   
   • Apple iPhone 6, 6 Plus, 6S, 6S Plus, SE, 7, 7 Plus, 8, 8 Plus, X
   • Google Pixel, Pixel XL, Pixel 2, Pixel 2 XL
   • Sony Xperia XZ1, Xperia XZ1 Compact
   • Huawei P10, P10 lite, P10 Plus, P Smart
   • HTC U11, U11 Life
   • Blackberry Priv, Dtek 50, Dtek 60, KEYone
   • Nokia 3, 5, 8
   • EE Hawk
3. or one of these phones, bought directly from EE in-store, online or over the phone:
   
   • Samsung Galaxy S9, S9+, S8, S8+, S7, S7 edge, S6, S6 edge, S6 edge+, Xcover 4, A3 (2017), A5 (2017), J5 (2017), Note 8
   • Sony Xperia L1, XA1, XZ, XZ Premium, X, XA, X Compact, Z5, Z5 Premium and Z5 Compact
   • Microsoft Lumia 550, 650, 950, 950XL
   • Huawei P8 lite (2017), P9
   • HTC 10
   • LG G6, G5, G5 SE, X Cam, K8 (2016), K8 (2017), K10 (2017)

1. the latest software version on your phone – to update:
   
   • iOS: Settings > General > Software Update
   • Android: Settings > About Device > Software update (the exact software update menu option may be a little different depending on the type of phone)
   • Windows: Settings > Update & security > Phone update > Check for Updates

https://ee.co.uk/help/help-new/gett...tures/how-do-i-use-4g-calling#article-title-2

As you can see if I wanted to buy the Huawei P8 lite for example I am restricted to buying it from EE directly as well as needing to be on a contract with EE which is what I was saying.

The only operator who allows PAYG customers to use VoLTE is Three as they offer the Three in Touch app which is clunky to say the least, I used to be with Three but left as their signal wasn't that great as they used to explain the poor signal as 1. But the 4G mast is too far away (A 10 to 15 minute walk if that) or 2. But there's is not enough capacity to provide a decent signal which is why I left.

I would love to be with a operator where I can use VoLTE natively without using any extra apps to do so but that is as likely as Virgin Mobile suddenly offering 4G to PAYG customers.

Anyway back to train wifi, I found the XC login page to be quick once and painless but I still like to know what networks are providing the wifi on board the UK trains.

 

[Esker-pades]

I still find it impossible to connect to LNER wi-fi on my laptop. My phone does it fine, but my laptop doesn't want to play ball.

 

[jon0844]

Let me point you in the direction of EE which kinda of disagrees with your point:

To use 4G Calling you'll need:

1. to be in an area with EE 4G coverage
   
2. an EE pay monthly plan on one of these phones bought from any retailer*, including EE:
   • Apple iPhone 6, 6 Plus, 6S, 6S Plus, SE, 7, 7 Plus, 8, 8 Plus, X
   • Google Pixel, Pixel XL, Pixel 2, Pixel 2 XL
   • Sony Xperia XZ1, Xperia XZ1 Compact
   • Huawei P10, P10 lite, P10 Plus, P Smart
   • HTC U11, U11 Life
   • Blackberry Priv, Dtek 50, Dtek 60, KEYone
   • Nokia 3, 5, 8
   • EE Hawk
3. or one of these phones, bought directly from EE in-store, online or over the phone:
   • Samsung Galaxy S9, S9+, S8, S8+, S7, S7 edge, S6, S6 edge, S6 edge+, Xcover 4, A3 (2017), A5 (2017), J5 (2017), Note 8
   • Sony Xperia L1, XA1, XZ, XZ Premium, X, XA, X Compact, Z5, Z5 Premium and Z5 Compact
   • Microsoft Lumia 550, 650, 950, 950XL
   • Huawei P8 lite (2017), P9
   • HTC 10
   • LG G6, G5, G5 SE, X Cam, K8 (2016), K8 (2017), K10 (2017)

1. the latest software version on your phone – to update:
   • iOS: Settings > General > Software Update
   • Android: Settings > About Device > Software update (the exact software update menu option may be a little different depending on the type of phone)
   • Windows: Settings > Update & security > Phone update > Check for Updates

https://ee.co.uk/help/help-new/gett...tures/how-do-i-use-4g-calling#article-title-2

As you can see if I wanted to buy the Huawei P8 lite for example I am restricted to buying it from EE directly as well as needing to be on a contract with EE which is what I was saying.

The only operator who allows PAYG customers to use VoLTE is Three as they offer the Three in Touch app which is clunky to say the least, I used to be with Three but left as their signal wasn't that great as they used to explain the poor signal as 1. But the 4G mast is too far away (A 10 to 15 minute walk if that) or 2. But there's is not enough capacity to provide a decent signal which is why I left.

I would love to be with a operator where I can use VoLTE natively without using any extra apps to do so but that is as likely as Virgin Mobile suddenly offering 4G to PAYG customers.

Anyway back to train wifi, I found the XC login page to be quick once and painless but I still like to know what networks are providing the wifi on board the UK trains.

Much of that information is way out of date. I am absolutely not wrong as I've got a number of SIM-free phones with support, and going forward almost all phones should have it. A friend has actually done a spreadsheet of all the phones going back a while and I'll try and get a copy.

VoLTE is vital for all networks as it is not only more spectral efficient but allows for 4G only locations where there's no need for 2G or 3G to fall back on for voice. Bear in mind 3G is likely to be turned off in the next year or two, or so little spectrum kept that it may as well be. That will leave just 2G, 4G and 5G.

 

[Aictos]

Much of that information is way out of date. I am absolutely not wrong as I've got a number of SIM-free phones with support, and going forward almost all phones should have it. A friend has actually done a spreadsheet of all the phones going back a while and I'll try and get a copy.

VoLTE is vital for all networks as it is not only more spectral efficient but allows for 4G only locations where there's no need for 2G or 3G to fall back on for voice. Bear in mind 3G is likely to be turned off in the next year or two, or so little spectrum kept that it may as well be. That will leave just 2G, 4G and 5G.

I'm just going by what the operators say simply because they shouldn't be issuing out of date information, if you can forward a Google Drive link with the spreadsheet I would be grateful.

I was thinking of getting a Honor 9 Lite in the New Year but have no idea if it supports VoLTE?

As to 3G, with the remaining spectrum left of 3G would the networks be able to reuse it for 4G?

 

[jon0844]

Operators are notoriously bad at keeping parts of their website up to date. Plus spectrum refarming has been going on for a long time already. Vodafone is refarming almost all its 2100 (band 1) spectrum for 4G, but keeping 900MHz for now. Three has also been doing it a lot, along with carrier aggregation with 800.

Let me get the link to the spreadsheet.

Update: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...sDhyQ6e8P5dI8TD5UbJJAYwRNyE/edit?usp=drivesdk

(the list actually misses quite a few handsets like the Mate 20 series and other One Plus phones)

Also, I am testing the Honor 10 Lite which goes on sale in January for under £200. You might want to wait a bit. The issue is a lot of Honor phones are sold here exclusively on Three and only get support for Three by default.

 

[Aictos]

Operators are notoriously bad at keeping parts of their website up to date. Plus spectrum refarming has been going on for a long time already. Vodafone is refarming almost all its 2100 (band 1) spectrum for 4G, but keeping 900MHz for now. Three has also been doing it a lot, along with carrier aggregation with 800.

Let me get the link to the spreadsheet.

Update: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...sDhyQ6e8P5dI8TD5UbJJAYwRNyE/edit?usp=drivesdk

(the list actually misses quite a few handsets like the Mate 20 series and other One Plus phones)

Also, I am testing the Honor 10 Lite which goes on sale in January for under £200. You might want to wait a bit. The issue is a lot of Honor phones are sold here exclusively on Three and only get support for Three by default.

Apart from Three's Three in Touch app are there any plans by other operators to allow VoLTE or WiFi calling for PAYG customers?

Equally, with both the Honor 9 and 10 Lite, do they offer native VoLTE calling for example on Three or do they need the app for PAYG customers?

As to 5G do you think it be restricted to Contracts/Sim Only or available for all?

 

[jon0844]

Three's inTouch is retired now. As is O2's equivalent. Each were temporary bodges, and introduced battery drain issues or required a separate messaging app.

Many new phones next year will have 5G modems. They'll look and work the same as any 4G phone, just cost a bit more. The question will be what tariffs will be like and if networks want to charge more.

As EE have speed limited plans, they are most likely going to restrict the faster (potential) speeds to Max plan users. As it is today, Max plans aren't available on SIM only (unless you're already on one) so you'd need to go on a 24-36 month plan with a handset.

 

[Aictos]

Three's inTouch is retired now. As is O2's equivalent. Each were temporary bodges, and introduced battery drain issues or required a separate messaging app.

Many new phones next year will have 5G modems. They'll look and work the same as any 4G phone, just cost a bit more. The question will be what tariffs will be like and if networks want to charge more.

As EE have speed limited plans, they are most likely going to restrict the faster (potential) speeds to Max plan users. As it is today, Max plans aren't available on SIM only (unless you're already on one) so you'd need to go on a 24-36 month plan with a handset.

Hang on a tick, the Three app is retired? What does this mean for PAYG users who have Android devices not brought from Three?

As to 5G tariffs, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Three the only operator at the time to NOT charge extra for 4G while everyone else did so I might be cynical but I can see EE leading the charge to make 5G only available at a extra cost and only to Pay Monthly customers however I can see Three bucking the trend and offering it to all regardless.

So with mobile coverage now being pushed out to cover geographical areas does this mean a continuous wifi service onboard or is it still in just areas that get a 4G signal?

As to LNER wifi, is it worth it? I've got a trip coming up and wondering what it's like?

 

[Esker-pades]

Hang on a tick, the Three app is retired? What does this mean for PAYG users who have Android devices not brought from Three?

As to 5G tariffs, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Three the only operator at the time to NOT charge extra for 4G while everyone else did so I might be cynical but I can see EE leading the charge to make 5G only available at a extra cost and only to Pay Monthly customers however I can see Three bucking the trend and offering it to all regardless.

So with mobile coverage now being pushed out to cover geographical areas does this mean a continuous wifi service onboard or is it still in just areas that get a 4G signal?

As to LNER wifi, is it worth it? I've got a trip coming up and wondering what it's like?

I've got loads of unused WiFi codes for LNER. PM me.

 

[jon0844]

InTouch still works on devices it was released for and installed on but will not be downloadable on new phones. I think the last update was in 2016 but can't tell because it doesn't even show on the Play store for me.

 

[infobleep]

Not sure if this has been picked up here but Cross Country WiFi is now free for all. I was using it on Sunday.

Interestingly when you sign up to be notified of offers, there is no box asking you if your over 16 years old. All other train WiFi I've used has had this. Are they interpreting GDPR differently or does the 16 years old bit appear elsewhere and thus fulfill the GDPR requirements?

 

[03_179]

Now Updated original post

 

[AlastairFraser]

But Geographical and Population coverage are two completely different things as @jon0844 can explain, one does not equal the other which is why EE is working towards 95% geographical coverage by 2020 even though they have 99% population coverage.

As to XC offering WiFi, its long overdue.

Mobile internet costs a lot and since our fares are increased every year, I think the marginal cost of providing free Wifi can be accommodated. If the fares were put down a lot, I would happily spend that on data. And the XC wifi announcement is really good news. I've been on their services between Reading and Bournemouth/ Birmingham many times and the 3 network coverage through Winchester on the SWML is rubbish and the same when the train traverses the Coventry-Leamington Spa line.

 

[jon0844]

I was on Eurostar yesterday for a day trip to Paris and the Wi-Fi is so incredibly patchy. I really do not know what network(s) they use, but it wasn't great on either side of the water. Ironically, you seem to get a better service in the tunnel than outdoors.

We had a speed restriction on the way to Paris on the French side (45 minutes late into Gare Du Nord) so it can't even be attributed to the issues with high-speed travel.

 

[Aictos]

Mobile internet costs a lot and since our fares are increased every year, I think the marginal cost of providing free Wifi can be accommodated. If the fares were put down a lot, I would happily spend that on data. And the XC wifi announcement is really good news. I've been on their services between Reading and Bournemouth/ Birmingham many times and the 3 network coverage through Winchester on the SWML is rubbish and the same when the train traverses the Coventry-Leamington Spa line.

I did a provider test back in 2014/2015 sometime between London Waterloo and Winchester using both a EE Pay Monthly sim and a Three Pay Monthly sim, I doubt many would be surprised to hear that the coverage on the South West Main Line was superior on EE compared to Three as the latter had at that time a lot of black spots whereas EE more or less had continuous coverage.

If only there was a operator like Three with their data deals but with the coverage of EE I would be forever happy

 

[jon0844]

Three fills a lot of gaps with 800MHz 4G but you need a compatible phone. And Three has very little spectrum in this band, so it's not really good for speed and capacity.

EE has many, many more 4G enabled sites and also uses 800MHz but the latter isn't quite as important. Again you need the right hardware or these sites will be invisible to you.

 

[Aictos]

Three fills a lot of gaps with 800MHz 4G but you need a compatible phone. And Three has very little spectrum in this band, so it's not really good for speed and capacity.

EE has many, many more 4G enabled sites and also uses 800MHz but the latter isn't quite as important. Again you need the right hardware or these sites will be invisible to you.

if it helps, I was using a iPad Mini 1 on EE and I think either a Samsung S5 or a Microsoft Lumia 640XL on Three.

 

[AlastairFraser]

I did a provider test back in 2014/2015 sometime between London Waterloo and Winchester using both a EE Pay Monthly sim and a Three Pay Monthly sim, I doubt many would be surprised to hear that the coverage on the South West Main Line was superior on EE compared to Three as the latter had at that time a lot of black spots whereas EE more or less had continuous coverage.

If only there was a operator like Three with their data deals but with the coverage of EE I would be forever happy

Yeah, 3 aren't great for coverage, everyone at my college (Henley) can't get signal on the upper site because it's at the top of a hill and they have to use the college wifi instead. Even sometimes I can't get coverage at my house in the middle of Caversham, less than a mile from Reading town centre! I'm currently a SMARTY customer which piggybacks off 3, I was with 3 before anyway, but my SIM is currently deactivated due to my phone being stolen by a repair company ,I'm currently trying to get the money off them but, when I can, I'll check if coverage has improved. I agree on the last point, but 3's low price means it's always going to be a lesser offering than other networks.

 

[infobleep]

I do wonder how much money Cross Country were making from charging for the WiFi since the start of the current franchise and will they need to recoup that money in otherways.

I know it was a franchise commitment but there was still a period where it was a revenue stream for them.

I had no issues accessing the WiFi on Sunday. The one time I did pay for it though I had to get a refund as for both journeys that perticular day, it didn't work Not that I'm suggesting that he move to free WiFi is linked in anyway.

 

[jon0844]

if it helps, I was using a iPad Mini 1 on EE and I think either a Samsung S5 or a Microsoft Lumia 640XL on Three.

The iPad might support 800MHz and be whitelisted for access (given it doesn't do voice) but not sure about the others. Might need Three specific firmware and given the age I'm not sure either would have support even then.

Lacking band 20 (800) support makes a massive difference. Look at Three's own coverage maps with and without.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I do wonder how much money Cross Country were making from charging for the WiFi since the start of the current franchise and will they need to recoup that money in otherways.

I know it was a franchise commitment but there was still a period where it was a revenue stream for them.

I had no issues accessing the WiFi on Sunday. The one time I did pay for it though I had to get a refund as for both journeys that perticular day, it didn't work Not that I'm suggesting that he move to free WiFi is linked in anyway.

It will simply be a costed part of their franchise bid, i.e. the premium they offered to pay will have taken the loss of revenue into account.

 

[Aictos]

Yeah, 3 aren't great for coverage, everyone at my college (Henley) can't get signal on the upper site because it's at the top of a hill and they have to use the college wifi instead. Even sometimes I can't get coverage at my house in the middle of Caversham, less than a mile from Reading town centre! I'm currently a SMARTY customer which piggybacks off 3, I was with 3 before anyway, but my SIM is currently deactivated due to my phone being stolen by a repair company ,I'm currently trying to get the money off them but, when I can, I'll check if coverage has improved. I agree on the last point, but 3's low price means it's always going to be a lesser offering than other networks.

A few years ago I was in Richmond Park, Three was non existent and this is well within London...

They talk a lot about investment but actually explaining what form that takes like Vodafone and EE, Three are quite shy about doing that.

Try asking them about any possible investment and its easier to get a Brexit deal though Parliament!

I know EE did some upgrade work on the WCML but what form did this take and does onboard WiFi rely on this?

 

[HH]

You can get Wifi on many London Underground Stations, but not on the tubes. But maybe you meant TfL Rail?

 

[infobleep]

It will simply be a costed part of their franchise bid, i.e. the premium they offered to pay will have taken the loss of revenue into account.

So would there be a rough date by which this would occur costed into the bid? Obviously switching to free WiFi might not happen overnight.

 

[Aictos]

You can get Wifi on many London Underground Stations, but not on the tubes. But maybe you meant TfL Rail?

Yet.... As they're working on introducing full coverage to the tunnels as well which has been discussed at length here.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

So would there be a rough date by which this would occur costed into the bid? Obviously switching to free WiFi might not happen overnight.

It was supposed to happen in April 2018. So, if anything, they are up some additional revenue from having delayed the implementation (though I believe this is more down to technical issues than impertinence!).