'Only two bidders for SWT Franchise'

[Monty]

If 444s weren't limited as to their maximum power draw how would they probably compare with a 450?

The 450s and 444s have identical traction packages, so in theory the 450 should always have the upper hand on acceleration by virtue the 444 is a longer and heavier train even if their maximum draw was not restricted.

 

[cjmillsnun]

The one absence I'm surprised by is National Express; Dean Finch had two bites at SWT while at First. Maybe they believe EA is coming their way...

That would wind up commuters on the GEML something rotten.

 

[cjmillsnun]

It might be caused by 450s running on DC and 350s running on AC or just down to the quality of sound recordings

Nothing to do with sound recordings I can assure you. I live in SWT land and my parents are in Nuneaton I have heard both from the point of both being on the train and being on the platform. 450s and 444s sound identical to 350s up to about 10mph where the UFO noise gets much more of a shrill sound. It makes sense that this could be down to the restrictions to do with DC as described by the post I quoted in my OP.

 

[swt_passenger]

Nothing to do with sound recordings I can assure you. I live in SWT land and my parents are in Nuneaton I have heard both from the point of both being on the train and being on the platform. 450s and 444s sound identical to 350s up to about 10mph where the UFO noise gets much more of a shrill sound. It makes sense that this could be down to the restrictions to do with DC as described by the post I quoted in my OP.

It isn't a 'restriction' as such, the specific frequencies of the traction converter 3 phase output (which controls the AC traction motor speed) are chosen with respect to the harmonic interference generated by the train, and how they affect the signalling systems, e.g. track circuits - which operate differently in the AC and DC areas.

 

[3141]

The linespeeds are only greater than 90mph once you get passed the M25 bridge at Byfleet heading out of London AFAIK anyway. So the 90mph top speed doesn't hold up DMUs compared to 100mph EMUs on the most congested part of the route from Surbiton to Waterloo.

I've travelled at 100 mph between Basingstoke and Woking when SWT had class 170s. But the extra 10 miles per hour won't make much difference between those two stations, and if a train has called at Woking it won't shorten the journey much between there and Byfleet. So it appears that 100mph diesels with the present calling pattern on the present infrastructure would not offer much improvement.

 

[Class 170101]

Remember 170s aren't that quick off the block.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

The one's SWT had were a pile of dung.:roll:

 

[fgwrich]

The one's SWT had were a pile of dung.:roll:

And the rest! 392 was awful - you could place your phone on the table and watch it vibrate off! :roll:

 

[rwuk]

I've travelled at 100 mph between Basingstoke and Woking when SWT had class 170s. But the extra 10 miles per hour won't make much difference between those two stations, and if a train has called at Woking it won't shorten the journey much between there and Byfleet. So it appears that 100mph diesels with the present calling pattern on the present infrastructure would not offer much improvement.

The timetable in SWT-land is so intense that (IMO!) top-speed is much less important than acceleration. If every train was to gain the ability to reach its next stop 10 seconds earlier (due to improved acceleration) it seems like it'd do wonders for timekeeping given that passenger loadings mean that the main reason for late running is dwell times longer than that which has been timetabled.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Arriving early doesn't achieve anything, in fact the chances of get to any stop beyond Wimbledon on time is remote, because the Kingston loop & Shepperton trains are always late and that starts a domino chain reaction and brings everything down to a crawl all the way back to Surbiton.

The Wimbledon mob just take all day to get on and off and that makes things even worse, every weekday almost without fail, you'll see on Tyrell, code Yellow or Red, between Surbiton or Wimbledon & Waterloo and vv in the evening, saying due to congestion due to late running, delays of xx minutes and trains will be revised or run fast.

One joke is some of the Dorking trains which are semi fast in the mornings get stuck in the queue, yet the one's that start from Epsom will get routed to the fast lines and overtake them!:roll:

 

[TEW]

I've seen the buffet area in use precisely once, when an enterprising trolley guy decided he would be a buffet for the day on a train that was too packed to move through. He just parked up his trolley inside the buffet counter and served people through it

The only problem is, the buffet is too small to even fit the trolley in, so it never seems to work that well.

 

[talltim]

Desiros only draw 100% very briefly when starting away, it soon drops back to around the 50% mark, to around 40 mph, when it ramps up slightly to between 60 & 70% all the way up to 100 mph (where permitted), when the computer will then automatically reduce the power to hold it there and that's very weird when you're going downhill and it doesn't use any brakes to do it!

The power delivery is smooth and is deceptively fast and can easily catch you out, a 4 car 450 can quite easily achieve 90+ through West Byfleet from a standing start at Woking, they can easily match a 158/159, even an 8 car can, a 12 is considerably slower initially, but will get there.

A 444 is a bit slower than a 450 getting away, but get a good one and it'll not be far behind the 450 sets for performance, a 10 car 444, is somewhere between an 8 x 450 and 12 x450 for performance, again they'll be able to match and beat a 158/159 on most stretches of fast track.

Bit confused as two why an 8 coach or 12 coach 450 would be any slower than a 4 coach one, surely they have the same power to weight ratio? Or is it that the power available from the third rail has to get split between 2 or 3 units?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Bit confused as two why an 8 coach or 12 coach 450 would be any slower than a 4 coach one, surely they have the same power to weight ratio? Or is it that the power available from the third rail has to get split between 2 or 3 units?

You got it. You have to share the available power between 2 or more units and obviously unlike the 25kV system there's not as much power available to be drawn upon.

 

[infobleep]

The timetable in SWT-land is so intense that (IMO!) top-speed is much less important than acceleration. If every train was to gain the ability to reach its next stop 10 seconds earlier (due to improved acceleration) it seems like it'd do wonders for timekeeping given that passenger loadings mean that the main reason for late running is dwell times longer than that which has been timetabled.

Your right about the extra dwell times at stations. The 8.02 stopping service from Woking misses out Byfleet and New Haw and they knock off 2 minutes to allow for that but it rarely arrives into Surbiton on time, if ever. It's a 450 and the delay has to be passenger related and perhaps time it takes to open the doors.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Arriving early doesn't achieve anything, in fact the chances of get to any stop beyond Wimbledon on time is remote, because the Kingston loop & Shepperton trains are always late and that starts a domino chain reaction and brings everything down to a crawl all the way back to Surbiton.

The Wimbledon mob just take all day to get on and off and that makes things even worse, every weekday almost without fail, you'll see on Tyrell, code Yellow or Red, between Surbiton or Wimbledon & Waterloo and vv in the evening, saying due to congestion due to late running, delays of xx minutes and trains will be revised or run fast.

One joke is some of the Dorking trains which are semi fast in the mornings get stuck in the queue, yet the one's that start from Epsom will get routed to the fast lines and overtake them!:roll:

Perhaps they could make Tyrell available to the public because I don't see messages on National Rail Enquiries every evening saying due to congestion delays of x minutes or do I see similar on Journey Check.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Your right about the extra dwell times at stations. The 8.02 stopping service from Woking misses out Byfleet and New Haw and they knock off 2 minutes to allow for that but it rarely arrives into Surbiton on time, if ever. It's a 450 and the delay has to be passenger related and perhaps time it takes to open the doors.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Perhaps they could make Tyrell available to the public because I don't see messages on National Rail Enquiries every evening saying due to congestion delays of x minutes or do I see similar on Journey Check.

Tyrell is a staff only thing, like C C L D B was. Now you have things like RTT, which tell you how your train is running, but Tyrell is strictly staff, as it contains important and sometimes sensitive information.

 

[infobleep]

Tyrell is a staff only thing, like C C L D B was. Now you have things like RTT, which tell you how your train is running, but Tyrell is strictly staff, as it contains important and sometimes sensitive information.

I understand that but if regular disruption notices put up there, I think they should also be shared with passengers. Why not? Either that or they should scrap all running information and leave passengers in the dark. OK I'm exaggerating there.

 

[30909]

To be fair SWT Journey Check "Other Train Service Updates" often reports e.g. delays to some services between Wimbledon and Waterloo of XX minutes due to congestion (or earlier congestion) and sometimes give the reason e.g. speed restrictions

 

[infobleep]

To be fair SWT Journey Check "Other Train Service Updates" often reports e.g. delays to some services between Wimbledon and Waterloo of XX minutes due to congestion (or earlier congestion) and sometimes give the reason e.g. speed restrictions

Well not as often as there is congestion.

Trains were delayed last night. The Portsmouth to Waterloo via Eastleigh train was about 1 minute late at Wimbledon. It was about 15 minutes late into Waterloo. Perhaps it was related to earlier storm but journey check said the storm was no longer causing issues.

Thus morning trains were being delayed between Portsmouth and Guildford and I don't know why. Perhaps no message was on Tyrrell either.

 

[The Ham]

Well not as often as there is congestion.

Trains were delayed last night. The Portsmouth to Waterloo via Eastleigh train was about 1 minute late at Wimbledon. It was about 15 minutes late into Waterloo. Perhaps it was related to earlier storm but journey check said the storm was no longer causing issues.

Thus morning trains were being delayed between Portsmouth and Guildford and I don't know why. Perhaps no message was on Tyrrell either.

There were trains being diverted via Guildford this morning due to an incident between Woking and Basingstoke, that would likely cause delays.

 

[Altfish]

That's EU procurement laws for you. You're not allowed to bid for any public sector supply contract unless you can detail massive experience in successfully delivering previous similar contracts.

As someone who is involved with procurement (not on railways, I hasten to add) "... unless you can detail massive experience in successfully delivering previous similar contracts..." has nothing to do with EU procurement laws. That is what most clients request though, why would you want to go to someone who has never done 'it' before or has a bad track record?

 

[infobleep]

There were trains being diverted via Guildford this morning due to an incident between Woking and Basingstoke, that would likely cause delays.

Wasn't aware of that. Was that before 8am? I'd checked National Rail Enquiries App, Twitter and South West Trains journey check but didn't see anything.

 

[The Ham]

Wasn't aware of that. Was that before 8am? I'd checked National Rail Enquiries App, Twitter and South West Trains journey check but didn't see anything.

No, about 8:30 onwards.

 

[infobleep]

No, about 8:30 onwards.

OK. I was referring to delays before that time.

 

[TEW]

The 0550 Portsmouth Harbour-London Waterloo was cancelled this morning due to a train fault. This led to higher loadings and delays on subsequent services too.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Body on line at Old Basing.

 

[RichardN]

They are now incredibly vague about the area. They were saying between Farnborough and Winchester on the monitors at Waterloo. I'm surprised they don't go the whole hog and say between Waterloo and Exeter/Weymouth..

 

[TEW]

That's all part of the new way of communicating fatalities. This incident was a little different in that it was between stations anyway. But the location is meant to be vague, it's meant to inform you of which lines are disrupted, not where exactly the incident occurred.

 

[fgwrich]

This is what our local paper had on it tonight. I presume, unless a trespass, that it may have been in the area of the footbridge.

http://www.basingstokegazette.co.uk...Police_investigate_body_found_on_train_track/

Breaking
Police launch investigation after body found on train track near Basingstoke railway station

POLICE have launched an investigation after a body was found near the tracks at Basingstoke railway station.

Officers from the British Transport Police (BTP) and Hampshire Constabulary were called to the scene at 8.22am this morning, as commuters suffered major delays to their journeys.

Services between Basingstoke and Woking railway stations have currently been suspended while the investigation is on-going.

BTP confirmed that a body had been found near the tracks at Basingstoke railway station.

Paramedics from South Central Ambulance Service were also in attendance and pronounced the person dead at the scene.

A BTP spokesperson said: “Officers are now working to identify the person and establish how they came to be on the tracks.”

Train services are currently affected by severe delays, as all routes through Basingstoke are being revised.

A statement on South West Trains’ website said: “All lines are currently blocked whilst the police carry out their investigations.

“Due to the nature of this incident, the police are not able to give us an estimate of when the lines will re-open.”

 

[infobleep]

The 0550 Portsmouth Harbour-London Waterloo was cancelled this morning due to a train fault. This led to higher loadings and delays on subsequent services too.

Sorry to hear about the death. Always sad when you heat of these things. Wasn't aware until last night that it was such an occurrence.

Today the 6.42 Hilsea to Waterloo service was 4 minutes late due to a late train from the depot. This was on National Rail Enquiries above the live running info for the train.

Yesterdsy the train was just as late and no reason given.

Now would Tyrrell have given a reason yesterday or would higher passenger loadings not be noted as it's not a direct incident as in it was cussed by something else?

 

[TEW]

This is what our local paper had on it tonight. I presume, unless a trespass, that it may have been in the area of the footbridge.

http://www.basingstokegazette.co.uk...Police_investigate_body_found_on_train_track/

It was not in the vicinity of a footbridge. The BTP did declare the incident non-suspicous around 1100, so a longer operation than normal. Both slow lines were open by around 1015, with just the fast lines still shut.