ORR to strengthen guidance on compensation when passenger assist fails

[ainsworth74]

Spotted this article on Disability New Service:

Activist’s legal threat set to lead to more generous compensation for rail passenger assistance failures​

Rail companies are likely to be forced to provide more generous compensation when they fail to assist disabled passengers, thanks to the actions of an accessible transport campaigner.

The Office of Rail and Road (ORR) has written to train and station operators to tell them it plans to strengthen guidance on how they should compensate disabled passengers for failed assistance.

It has taken the action after disabled activist Doug Paulley (pictured) threatened legal action because rail operators were basing compensation for failed assistance on the price of the rail ticket.

This has meant that disabled passengers who have experienced significant and upsetting discrimination and major disruption to their travel plans have received just the price of their ticket by way of compensation.

Paulley pointed out to ORR that the compensation available through the courts, when taking a case for discrimination under the Equality Act, was often many times higher than that offered by the operators.

He has already exposed how compensation cases taken to the Rail Ombudsman have been leading to “ridiculously low” awards when compared with county court actions.

Now ORR has written to train and station operators to warn them that it plans to reconsider its guidance on how they should draw up their own Accessible Travel Policies (ATPs)*.

It plans to draft new guidance that will tell operators to consider future compensation claims “on a case-by-case basis, informed by an assessment of the circumstances and the impact on the passenger, and in consideration of all relevant legislation”.

The regulator said it was acting after Paulley’s legal threat, and court and ombudsman decisions that showed that in some situations “significant” financial compensation can be appropriate.

[...]

Activist’s legal threat set to lead to more generous compensation for rail passenger assistance failures

Rail companies are likely to be forced to provide more generous compensation when they fail to assist disabled passengers, thanks to the actions of an accessible transport campaigner. The Office of…

www.disabilitynewsservice.com

Interesting development and I have to say welcome. It's very disappointing that the industry still gets assistance very very wrong quite so frequently and then when it does is so parsimonious in trying to make good the potential harm inflicted (basing compensation on delay repay style compensation is a nonsense). Obviously in any system operated by humans there will be failings but some of them seem so basic and fundamental (such as wheelchair users being left on trains, which I've seen for myself, I once had to help lift a wheelchair user off train when the booked assistance failed to appear and they were in serious danger of being overcarried) clearly there are serious issues.

So if the industry can't get better at assistance for moral reasons, perhaps financial ones will focus minds on ensuring assistance is provided when required!

 

[kingqueen]

Thank you.

The ORR has announced a consultation.

Rail regulator proposes to change redress policies when booked assistance fails disabled passengers | Office of Rail and Road

The Office of Rail and Road says redress claims for failed rail passenger booked assistance should always be assessed on a case-by-case basis, rather than based on ticket price, in a letter sent to the rail industry which seeks views on the proposal.

www.orr.gov.uk

Rail regulator proposes to change redress policies when booked assistance fails disabled passengers​

The Office of Rail and Road says redress claims for failed rail passenger booked assistance should always be assessed on a case-by-case basis, rather than based on ticket price, in a letter sent to the rail industry which seeks views on the proposal.

 

[Tetchytyke]

So if the industry can't get better at assistance for moral reasons, perhaps financial ones will focus minds on ensuring assistance is provided when required!

I think that’s what it will take. The current system means it’s more cost effective to have insufficient staff than it is to treat disabled people correctly.

A friends of mine was left on a train at New Pudsey last week. She’d only travelled one stop from Bradford and they still forgot!

 

[43066]

So if the industry can't get better at assistance for moral reasons, perhaps financial ones will focus minds on ensuring assistance is provided when required!

Agree with the thrust of it - assistance fails do happen too often.

That they will have to consider carefully consider how to implement it in a way that provides an incentive to improve, though. In a nationalised system with operators not taking revenue risk just increasing the amount of compensation won’t be much of an incentive on its own.

 

[TUC]

As someone whose wife is disabled and uses assistance when travelling I have mixed feelings about this. If, for example, an assistance failure causes you to miss a flight or be late for a theatre show, then of course compensation should reflect this. However, my wife also cringes when she sees disability activists wanting compensation for discrimination and hurt feelings etc., for an assistance failure. Her view is that she wants to be treated as an equal, not as a fragile flower.

I am also unsure about the legitimacy of seeking to extend compensation to Turn Uo and Go situations, unless that is advertised as available. Of course disabled people want to be able to travel at short notice in the same way as anyone else, but it's hard to see why in most situations a call when leaving the house could not be made. 30 minutes warning of assistance being needed is more help than none at all, and the reason a person who just turns up has no one available to assist might be because the staff member is busy assisting someone who has booked in advance.

 

[357]

I helped thousands of disabled people while working on stations and admit myself that I forgot a few times. Staff are stretched too thin .

Most of the time it was due to dealing with emergency situations elsewhere on the station and the passenger completely understood.

However, later after becoming a driver I recall being shouted at by a member of control room staff for refusing to move my train from Pitsea until ramp assistance had been provided to two MIPs who had already been forgotten on the way into London and had to go to Barking and come back again.

 

[TUC]

I helped thousands of disabled people while working on stations and admit myself that I forgot a few times. Staff are stretched too thin .

Most of the time it was due to dealing with emergency situations elsewhere on the station and the passenger completely understood..

I do recognise those kinds of challenges. What would perhaps help is an app/message that keeps reminding the staff member until the assistance is completed, plus the ability to message the passenger to advise there has been a delay.

 

[357]

I do recognise those kinds of challenges. What would perhaps help is an app/message that keeps reminding the staff member until the assistance is completed, plus the ability to message the passenger to advise there has been a delay.

I used to set an alarm on my phone for 6 minutes before the train was scheduled to arrive, and in the office select the train on our map software so the screen would "follow" the train.

An app that tracks the train with an alarm would work well, however the apps that I have seen just give one notification that is easily missed amongst the constant bombardment of email notifications about disruption at the other end of the country.

 

[Gflynorw]

As a guard, I'm also fed up of people putting luggage in the wheelchair spaces and self entitled parents who feel their huge oversized prams take priority - it's a wheelchair space ... some of us staff take our responsibility toward disabled customers seriously.

 

[kingqueen]

I absolutely love staff like you who have a positive and committed attitude to assisting disabled people.

At the risk of diverting the thread, I do think that there should be facilities to make it as easy as possible for all passengers to travel, including those with prams and pushchairs. But that these should be separate facilities and not abusing wheelchair spaces.

Doug

 

[VItraveller]

there are a whole lot of reasons why assistance fails, but in my experience, it’s always best for staff at the departure station to telephone ahead to the arrival station, this doesn’t always happen because some staff feel that simply updating the journey on the app is enough but that often leads to problems.
There really should be some facility for disabled passengers to communicate through the Passenger Assistance app, I have the number for Birmingham New Street Accessibility telephone line which has smoothed things along on many occasions but not all stations provide that information.
as for the point about not being treated differently, I would argue that for every one disabled passenger who seeks compensation for issues with the passenger assistance service, there will be 10 or 20 who don’t yet those who do improve the service for everyone else and I think it takes a lot of failed assists before people feel the need to challenge the company in court.

 

[styles]

So it should.

My mum tried to use passenger assistance back in 2013 and it just didn't turn up. She instead had to drive the length of Wales and was late for a volunteering meeting she was meant to be attending.

That was her first time trying passenger assist and it completely removed her confidence in the system. To the point that the next time she tried it was a whole 11 years late in 2024, and that was with me there as her companion.

She has done it again since, once, with my sister as her companion.

I doubt very much that she would have confidence in the system using passenger assist alone still, even though she now knows how to use the mobile app etc herself and is familiar with some of the stations' passenger assist facilities.

She's coming up from Wales to see me in Scotland in the summer and I'm fully expecting that I'll have to travel down to bring her up, then travel back down with her again afterwards. The risk of passenger assist not turning up, being stranded, missing infrequently-timed direct rail services, etc is just too high. And when it all goes wrong, all you get it compensation basically equivalent to the cost of your ticket, unless you really push.

there are a whole lot of reasons why assistance fails, but in my experience, it’s always best for staff at the departure station to telephone ahead to the arrival station, this doesn’t always happen because some staff feel that simply updating the journey on the app is enough but that often leads to problems.

While I approve of this idea, it only works for stations which are staffed. My mum's nearest 9 stations are unstaffed. Also not all of the platforms have working passenger information points to talk to the station operator.

There really should be some facility for disabled passengers to communicate through the Passenger Assistance app, I have the number for Birmingham New Street Accessibility telephone line which has smoothed things along on many occasions but not all stations provide that information.

Some stations actively refuse to give out such phone numbers as well. See https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...concerns-questions.271784/page-5#post-7285691 as an example.

as for the point about not being treated differently, I would argue that for every one disabled passenger who seeks compensation for issues with the passenger assistance service, there will be 10 or 20 who don’t yet those who do improve the service for everyone else and I think it takes a lot of failed assists before people feel the need to challenge the company in court.

Absolutely. A lot of people resign themselves to a poor service. My mum is one of those people. She gave up with her complaint to (then) Arriva Trains Wales about her passenger assist not turning up, when really she should've been perusing 45p/mile for the drive she had to do, plus her rail fare back, plus compensation for the distress. She was in real pain when she arrived because her legs struggle with longer drives due to arthritis and osteoporosis. Had I known better at the time, I might've suggested she contact local media to highlight her story, though not sure if she'd have gone for that.

The impact of passenger assist not turning up has the potential to be far worse than many other passengers' delays. That this hasn't been recognised until now is pretty sad really.

 

[Kumquat]

Absolutely. A lot of people resign themselves to a poor service. My mum is one of those people. She gave up with her complaint to (then) Arriva Trains Wales about her passenger assist not turning up, when really she should've been perusing 45p/mile for the drive she had to do, plus her rail fare back, plus compensation for the distress. She was in real pain when she arrived because her legs struggle with longer drives due to arthritis and osteoporosis. Had I known better at the time, I might've suggested she contact local media to highlight her story, though not sure if she'd have gone for that.

The impact of passenger assist not turning up has the potential to be far worse than many other passengers' delays. That this hasn't been recognised until now is pretty sad really.

I think a lot of people don't realise how many times a disabled person is likely to face discrimination and be entitled to make a complaint, only you'd then be spending your whole life making complaints. Some years ago I decided to complain every time the advertised infra-red sound system in a major London theatre didn't work. A year later I had vouchers for the next show at about 20 theatres, some the same theatre repeatedly. And eventually most theatres just stopped advertising the system, as the easiest way of dealing with the situation.

I generally only have problems on trains when there's delays or reroutings - about once a year I end up in a station because the train has been changed to non-stop my local station, I can't hear announcements, and the in-train displays are not in use or are wrong. I could complain every time the in-train display isn't showing the correct stations, but again I'd be complaining about once a week and get accused of being an activist... which happened when I complained repeatedly about the toilets and accessible entrances at local stations not being open when they're advertised as being.

Since using the PA app I haven't experienced a delay to boarding, but before I installed that, I'd been regularly told they didn't have to get me on a train nor give me somewhere to sit to wait nor get me to a seat, if there were major crowds who'd been delayed. (The EMR platforms at St Pancras, mainly - too often there would be only a couple staff struggling to corral hundreds of pax through the barriers, and no staff to assist anyone.) There's no seating on those platforms and staff have told me sitting on the floor would be a hazard in a crowd (fair enough), so it appears the only offer to someone who can't stand more than a moment is to have them wait until there aren't delayed crowds. I'm not convinced that's 'reasonable', but equally I could see the overwhelmed staff. One told me during one such incident that he was actually off duty but figured help was needed - that's not reasonable either. Surely there must be procedures to get more staff to barriers when a station has a major meltdown with no/few trains for prolonged periods?

 

[357]

I can't hear announcements, and the in-train displays are not in use or are wrong.

I've had a manager sitting next to me in the cab accuse me of creating further unnecessary delay by updating the PIS when we were skipping stations due to service disruption.

I do it exactly for people like you. Most drivers just turn it off to stop it giving out incorrect information. I asked said manager to put what he had just said in writing, and naturally it wasn't mentioned in the assessment write up.

 

[Kumquat]

I've had a manager sitting next to me in the cab accuse me of creating further unnecessary delay by updating the PIS when we were skipping stations due to service disruption.

I do it exactly for people like you. Most drivers just turn it off to stop it giving out incorrect information. I asked said manager to put what he had just said in writing, and naturally it wasn't mentioned in the assessment write up.

Thank you. Please pass on my comments if you encounter such managers again. Especially if you work for Southern (it's usually Sutton I end up at).

 

[Starmill]

It's important to remember that failed assists are also a matter of law, not only one of good customer service or basic respect. There are reports of some TOCs paying out into five figures for one journey because of the way a booked assist was handled (or not handled, depending on how you look at it!). I'm sure that doesn't happen every day or anything, but it only takes one customer who has an unlawful discrimination / Equality Act expert as a close contact, or is a specialist themselves...

I do recognise those kinds of challenges. What would perhaps help is an app/message that keeps reminding the staff member until the assistance is completed, plus the ability to message the passenger to advise there has been a delay.

Avanti often have a roster for a dedicated member of staff to do assists, which makes a booked assist being dropped far less likely because that's their primary focus. The general platform staff are also more free to respond to unbooked assists / two trains at exactly the same time with assist etc, so fewer people get lost. I think Network Rail have this role too but I am uncertain where else does.

 

[357]

Thank you. Please pass on my comments if you encounter such managers again. Especially if you work for Southern (it's usually Sutton I end up at).

Not Southern but it was another company that use Electrostars

The issue on Electrostars is the PIS takes a while to load and the only way to change your stopping pattern is to log out of the whole TMS and login again.

 

[TUC]

I think a lot of people don't realise how many times a disabled person is likely to face discrimination and be entitled to make a complaint, only you'd then be spending your whole life making complaints. Some years ago I decided to complain every time the advertised infra-red sound system in a major London theatre didn't work. A year later I had vouchers for the next show at about 20 theatres, some the same theatre repeatedly. And eventually most theatres just stopped advertising the system, as the easiest way of dealing with the situation.

I generally only have problems on trains when there's delays or reroutings - about once a year I end up in a station because the train has been changed to non-stop my local station, I can't hear announcements, and the in-train displays are not in use or are wrong. I could complain every time the in-train display isn't showing the correct stations, but again I'd be complaining about once a week and get accused of being an activist... which happened when I complained repeatedly about the toilets and accessible entrances at local stations not being open when they're advertised as being.

A key problem is that errors on train PIS appear to be low priority and exist for multiple weeks when fixing announcing incorrect stations really matters, especially for visually impaired passengers, but also for others unfamiliar with the route.

There are also inconsistent approaches by on-train staff when PIS announcements fail on a given train. Some very conscientiously manually announce the stations, but others leave the service to run silently. Accessibility isn't just about formal systems. It is also about staff taking the initiative when systems fsil.

 

[357]

A key problem is that errors on train PIS appear to be low priority and exist for multiple weeks when fixing announcing incorrect stations really matters, especially for visually impaired passengers, but also for others unfamiliar with the route.

There are also inconsistent approaches by on-train staff when PIS announcements fail on a given train. Some very consciously manually announce the stations, but others leave the service to run silently. Accessibility isn't just about formal systems. It is also about staff taking the initiative when systems fsil.

There's also the issue of workload for the traincrew.

I used to drive DOO trains, and we were prohibited from making announcements under restrictive signals or while slowing for speed restrictions or stations.

Unfortunately the reality of this is that some/many stations won't be announced if the system isn't working.

With tight schedules too, I'd find myself only announcing the calling pattern at a stand if we were missing the next station, announcing the approach to major stations and interchanges, and at weekends announcing any local events or engineering works.

Smaller stations, or those where restrictive aspects are frequently encountered would be missed.

Throughout my career I've repeatedly raised the issue of incorrect announcements with multiple employers with varying degrees of success.

 

[TUC]

There's also the issue of workload for the traincrew.

I used to drive DOO trains, and we were prohibited from making announcements under restrictive signals or while slowing for speed restrictions or stations.

Unfortunately the reality of this is that some/many stations won't be announced if the system isn't working.

With tight schedules too, I'd find myself only announcing the calling pattern at a stand if we were missing the next station, announcing the approach to major stations and interchanges, and at weekends announcing any local events or engineering works.

Smaller stations, or those where restrictive aspects are frequently encountered would be missed.

Throughout my career I've repeatedly raised the issue of incorrect announcements with multiple employers with varying degrees of success.

I'm primarily talking about Northern who do not have DOO.

 

[357]

I'm primarily talking about Northern who do not have DOO.

I'm primarily talking about the British railway system as a whole, as multiple TOCs are affected by this issue.

Whilst I agree that some staff should take more initiative in announcing stations - making announcements is something most places have removed from training now as it makes the cost of the course cheaper, and doesn't solve the main issue of unreliable PIS systems and lack of motivation or resource to keep them up to date.

 

[TUC]

I'm primarily talking about the British railway system as a whole, as multiple TOCs are affected by this issue.

Whilst I agree that some staff should take more initiative in announcing stations - making announcements is something most places have removed from training now as it makes the cost of the course cheaper, and doesn't solve the main issue of unreliable PIS systems and lack of motivation or resource to keep them up to date.

What I mean is that when it is on-train, non-driving, non-DOO staff it is at least one step easier for them to make manual announcements.

 

[VItraveller]

I'm primarily talking about the British railway system as a whole, as multiple TOCs are affected by this issue.

Whilst I agree that some staff should take more initiative in announcing stations - making announcements is something most places have removed from training now as it makes the cost of the course cheaper, and doesn't solve the main issue of unreliable PIS systems and lack of motivation or resource to keep them up to date.

but it does solve the problem of disabled people who rely on those announcements not being disadvantaged when the automated system breaks down.
And perhaps there’s a nuance I’m missing but does it really take training material in a course for staff to give an announcement of what stations the train is approaching, Surely could just be a single line on a PowerPoint slide somewhere.

I remember once I was on a lnwr train from Birmingham International to Coventry where the automated system had broken down, and was announcing the stations as if the train was going back to New Street which soon got very confusing very quickly.
Luckily, I’m a frequent traveller on the route and I was able to count my stops until I got to Coventry but God only knows where I would’ve gotten off had I not been or if it had been my first time.

 

[357]

but it does solve the problem of disabled people who rely on those announcements not being disadvantaged when the automated system breaks down.

Yes, agreed.
It doesn't solve the issue for those who can't hear announcements though.

In 2025 these systems really shouldn't be so unreliable.

And perhaps there’s a nuance I’m missing but does it really take training material in a course for staff to give an announcement of what stations the train is approaching, Surely could just be a single line on a PowerPoint slide somewhere.

You'd be amazed how much training has been cut during the 15 years I've been in the industry - and there are still many who feel people such as myself are clueless because we didn't get BR training 20 years earlier!

Many people get nervous when speaking to crowds etc. and yes it used to be a few slides and maybe some practice on a quiet station or empty train. One of many things that have been removed from most training courses as it's "not really required".

I remember once I was on a lnwr train from Birmingham International to Coventry where the automated system had broken down, and was announcing the stations as if the train was going back to New Street which soon got very confusing very quickly.

On older systems this can be a user error in that the person setting it up at the start of the journey has one number wrong in the route code.

 

[ainsworth74]

I'm primarily talking about Northern who do not have DOO.

I have noticed that since the rollout of automated announcements the Conductors do in general seem a bit less on the ball when it comes to making announcements. Obviously the automated system handles the bulk of them but if it isn't working for some reason they don't seem to step in and make manual ones anymore. Or if there's a random delay (say waiting for a platform) they don't seem quite so quick to jump on and say something. I'm not sure if it's just a broken habit (after all in nine journeys out of ten you won't need to touch the PA at all) or a direction from on high that they shouldn't be as active making manual PAs now there's an automated system or something else.

That being said when it does work TrainFX (the Northern system) seems pretty powerful and can cope with changes in journey on the way. I've been on a few trains which have terminated short of the destination and TrainFX correctly picks this up and updates onboard screens and announcements to reflect the new terminating point. I've even had it once or twice that TrainFX has picked up the change before Northern Control have been able to phone up and tell the crew! I'm told that isn't supposed to happen but if control can't reach the conductor then there will come a point that they just have to publish the change anyway. I'm not so sure if it spots deleted calls or additional calls as well though in theory it should as it's all powered from the same underlying system, Darwin, which handles this stuff.

I believe other implementations of TrainFX (EMR I think?) are not as well featured and cannot handle such things.