Out-boundary Travelcard substitute query

[Edvid]

During my travels yesterday I purchased a day return from LTN to Elstree and an in-boundary day travelcard (both off-peak), as I planned to catch a bus from Elstree. In addition, I wanted a fast train from Central London back to LTN so I asked for a single from Boundary Zone 6 to St Albans but the clerk mentioned that FCC treats the two tickets as an equivalent of the combined out-boundary day travelcard (which is more expensive! From LTN anyway), and I could travel on any FCC (but not EMT) train to/from London, subject to the Evening Peak Restrictions of course.

I discussed this with two members of staff at London Blackfriars and they both said the same thing, so I wonder how long this has gone on for - that said it seems to conflict with my understanding of the NCoC stance on non-stop journeys covered by two separate adjoining tickets. I haven't checked whether the price anomaly applies to other stations yet.

In any case I bought the BZ6-SAC single but only because I wanted to leave London during the evening peak, specifically on one of the four daily SX FCC trains that take less than half an hour to travel from STP to LTN (the other three are morning contra-peak trains).

 

[hairyhandedfool]

A boundary zone ticket is an extension and so is valid on fast trains, but a ticket to start or end at Elstree is not.

 

[yorkie]

Luton Airport Parkway - Elstree is £7.00 CDR.
Boundary Zone 6 - Luton Airport Parkway is £7.00 CDR.

However, the former is only valid on stopping services. The latter is valid on fast trains but is only issed for journeys commencing from BZ6, although in theory you could use the RTN before the OUT although it's not officially valid.

If you do get a CDR from BZ6 then you cannot leave the last station to call within the zones at peak time, ie you can't leave STP until 1901. If you want to leave at peak time then you have to get a stopper which is valid to Elstree, and then your BZ6 is valid from there. So at peak time you are no better off with the BZ6 ticket.

 

[Edvid]

Ta muchly for the info, but unless I'm mistaken you can't purchase BZ tickets from outside the LT Zones (which I only discovered during that trip) or online, otherwise they wouldn't be selling out-boundary Travelcards.

Usually if I want fast trains both ways anytime after the morning peak I just buy a CDR to Shepperton and (if desired) an in-boundary Travelcard. On the issue of dividing tickets specifically at Elstree I'll ask FCC if their fast trains are really covered by such tickets as 3 of their staff said (in spite of the official rule that they aren't as you guys confirmed).

As far as the EPRs are concerned, CDRs are not restricted if the northbound journey from London constitutes the outward journey portion (only SVRs are restricted on both portions).

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I don't think there is a restriction on where you can buy them, but you must hold a valid travelcard in order to purchase them (or be buying one at the same time), certainly there is nothing in the FRPP (fares and retail publication portal) about it that I have seen, although you do have to buy the ticket before you board the relevant train, unless that is not possible.

On the subject of what the staff told you, if the staff at Blackfriars are the staff who were there when I worked for Thameslink, I would take what they say with a pinch of salt, they're not the sharpest tools in the box (no offense intended).

 

[Edvid]

I should add that the first member of staff (a ticket office clerk) who proclaimed the legal use of fast trains with tickets split at Elstree in the first place was at Luton Airport Parkway. Also, when I asked for the BZ6-SAC single there I already had the CDR (LTN-ELS) and in-boundary ODT on my person (in other words I queued up twice because I forgot to ask for the single the first time round).

 

[hairyhandedfool]

If you were headed to Brighton and were using the travelcard zones during the return trip, (out boundary travelcard plus extension to Brighton) they would have to give the extension to Brighton before you board the train, so They must be allowed to sell the extensions, maybe the manager has had a word in their ears!

 

[yorkie]

Well, NCoC does state the train must call (unless the t/card is a season) however the NCoC states TOCs can give you more rights than specified in the NCoC (they can't give you less), so if FCC are happy to allow people to use fast trains then that's fine! As long as FCC state that is their policy then there's no problem on FCC.

Back in the days of Class 86s out of LST I asked for a ticket from BZ6 and was given a ticket from Harold Wood instead, it was not questioned. So I conclude that was their policy, although since then NatEx has taken over so it may not be now.

Also on FGW we once got to a diverted HST at Waterloo seconds before departure, asked the guard if we could extend travelcards before boarding he said yes, and when he came round he couldn't find BZ6 so issued it from WDT (even though we went via BNS).

I have used tickets from Surbiton rather than BZ6 on SWT without question on fast trains.

I wonder if there is some secret easement somewhere?!

 

[clagmonster]

Also, I seen to remember a West Coast outer suburban guard on here a while back saying that tickets from the boundary station (Hatch End) were valid on fast trains in conjunction with a valid travelcard. Indeed, a little while back, I asked at Euston for a day single, for travel the following day, from St Albans Abbey to boundary zone 6, and was given a ticket to Hatch End.

 

[Edvid]

Now all this is interesting. Confirmation of FCC policy pending, it looks like I can now travel from LTN to all places within Zones 1-6 for under a tenner as a Railcard holder.

Of course, if I wanted to travel from the Zones to an out-boundary location and back, I'll seek to have them start from BZ6 (such is my gratitude to a certain Blackfriars ticket clerk who sold me a BZ6 to Sevenoaks CDR when I asked for a CDR from St Mary Cray some time ago - one of the three benefits in doing so was that I paid about a quid less than I would have for the CDR from SMY).