Out of court settlements for assistance failures

[Kieran_MF135]

So i have experience where passenger assistance that was pre booked were failed or told to I have to catch a later train etc

Just wondering how many other has had this happen and been offered sum of money to settle it out of court , for discrimination under the equity act 2010.

I am speaking to solicitor about one the cases and have servel other under investigation by different TOC

But have also faced staff being hostile about providing assistance due to there being busy and I have to wait a hour or something for the next one or they have not got the CCTV footage I requested as apparently there been issues with the CCTV footage and they convelty don't have footage about what has happened.

 

[Kath123]

Hi

Sorry to hear you have had such poor experiences and things have reached this point.

As you know I’m only a member of the public on here not an expert but I thought I would reply as your post made me think of a couple of articles I’ve come across recently and I don’t know if they will be any use to you/whether you are already aware of them. Please note one of the articles is from 2021. The articles I’m thinking of are:

Discrimination court win over UK’s ‘worst’ station for assistance ‘shows need for reform and culture change’

A judge has ordered Network Rail to compensate an access campaigner who was abandoned in a waiting-area after booking assistance at a station known among disabled passengers for providing the count…

www.disabilitynewsservice.com

And

Train company pays £17,000 after repeatedly leaving disabled woman stranded

A disabled woman who was left stranded on trains and station platforms more than 30 times by a rail company has been awarded compensation of £17,000. Southern admitted repeatedly failing to deal …

www.disabilitynewsservice.com

As for whether there’s a way of finding out how many people take this type of action/go down the route of trying to get an out of court settlement - I’m not sure. Maybe the experts will know.

EDIT: Ah sorry I should have thought about this more carefully. You were asking about out of court settlements weren’t you? The first article doesn’t relate to an out of court settlement but now ive posted it I’ll leave it up there incase it’s any use - apologies.

 

[Kieran_MF135]

Hi

Sorry to hear you have had such poor experiences and things have reached this point.

As you know I’m only a member of the public on here not an expert but I thought I would reply as your post made me think of a couple of articles I’ve come across recently and I don’t know if they will be any use to you/whether you are already aware of them. Please note one of the articles is from 2021. The articles I’m thinking of are:

Discrimination court win over UK’s ‘worst’ station for assistance ‘shows need for reform and culture change’

A judge has ordered Network Rail to compensate an access campaigner who was abandoned in a waiting-area after booking assistance at a station known among disabled passengers for providing the count…

www.disabilitynewsservice.com

And

Train company pays £17,000 after repeatedly leaving disabled woman stranded

A disabled woman who was left stranded on trains and station platforms more than 30 times by a rail company has been awarded compensation of £17,000. Southern admitted repeatedly failing to deal …

www.disabilitynewsservice.com

As for whether there’s a way of finding out how many people take this type of action - I’m not sure. Maybe the experts will know.

EDIT: Ah sorry I should have thought about this more carefully. You were asking about out of court settlements weren’t you? The first article doesn’t relate to an out of court settlement but now ive posted it I’ll leave it up there incase it’s any use - apologies.

No the toc has sént me asking if I wanted to settle out of court.

It quite a sum as well , as court would be what the judge thinks is appropriate.

And have lost count of how many times I have had assistance failure form

TFL turn up and go more like turn up and not go.


To toc where pre booked day or weeks before hand has failed or even being left stranded into the next morning in area due to no one rembered.

 

[Kath123]

Ah ok sorry I hadn’t picked up the TOC had been the ones to suggest an out of court settlement to you - hopefully people here will be able to help you think about what to do/provide their experiences.

I don’t really feel I have the necessary knowledge or life experience to help but here if you need a listening ear anytime.

Maybe it would help to do a list of pros and cons of settling out of court? Do you feel the issues will be resolved for future if you settle out of court (eg has the TOC listened do you think)?

Also I know you may not want to disclose it here but hopefully your solicitor can give some advice/thoughts.

 

[6Gman]

Ah ok sorry I hadn’t picked up the TOC had been the ones to suggest an out of court settlement to you - hopefully people here will be able to help you think about what to do/provide their experiences.

I don’t really feel I have the necessary knowledge or life experience to help but here if you need a listening ear anytime.

Maybe it would help to do a list of pros and cons of settling out of court? Do you feel the issues will be resolved for future if you settle out of court (eg has the TOC listened do you think)?

Also I know you may not want to disclose it here but hopefully your solicitor can give some advice/thoughts.

May also need to consider whether the settlement also includes any non disclosure agreements or undertakings not to pursue further instances of failure.

 

[Haywain]

May also need to consider whether the settlement also includes any non disclosure agreements or undertakings not to pursue further instances of failure.

In a civil case, it is also wise to consider the implications of declining to settle out of court - like who becomes responsible for costs incurred by both sides in continuing the action. I think professional legal advice would be very wise in such a case.

 

[Titfield]

In a civil case, it is also wise to consider the implications of declining to settle out of court - like who becomes responsible for costs incurred by both sides in continuing the action. I think professional legal advice would be very wise in such a case.

Yes indeed. There is something in the back of my mind that if you refuse an offer of an out of court settlement for more than it is subsequently assessed in court (or you lose in court) then you become liable for both sides costs.

As "Wagatha" has demonstrated costs which seem to be huge to the lay person seem to be given the nod by at least one judge as being acceptable.

 

[soil]

Yes indeed. There is something in the back of my mind that if you refuse an offer of an out of court settlement for more than it is subsequently assessed in court (or you lose in court) then you become liable for both sides costs.

As "Wagatha" has demonstrated costs which seem to be huge to the lay person seem to be given the nod by at least one judge as being acceptable.

It depends on the sums involved. Up to £10k claim it will be small claims track, and there's not much risk. Beyond £10k, specialist advice is certainly warranted.

 

[Jodysd6]

Have you looked at the Vento Banding? Is this a case regarding a single incident with one TOC or is it multiple incidents with the same TOC?

Vento Banding starts at £1,100 - £11,700 for 'less serious cases' so these are those that may be considered a one off and didn't involve things like discriminatory language, public humiliation etc. so it depends on the individual case but that would potentially be your starting point.

I am currently debating whether to take my most recent incident of being forgotten and left on a train any further, it's hard to find the energy to fight it all the way but it also shouldn't still be happening so regularly and having companies pay out for this is probably the only way to get them to take more care instead of just offering token £10 vouchers, so well done for getting this far.

 

[Kieran_MF135]

Have you looked at the Vento Banding? Is this a case regarding a single incident with one TOC or is it multiple incidents with the same TOC?

Vento Banding starts at £1,100 - £11,700 for 'less serious cases' so these are those that may be considered a one off and didn't involve things like discriminatory language, public humiliation etc. so it depends on the individual case but that would potentially be your starting point.

I am currently debating whether to take my most recent incident of being forgotten and left on a train any further, it's hard to find the energy to fight it all the way but it also shouldn't still be happening so regularly and having companies pay out for this is probably the only way to get them to take more care instead of just offering token £10 vouchers, so well done for getting this far.

So my incident with failure is that it also involved a safety issue and resulted in me falling between the train and platform and CCTV footage from on board the train show it , CCTV footage on platform was apparently not working.

And I have lost count how many times pre booked assistant has failed me from either being over carried or staff flat out refused to assist saying they don't provide it.

This is first incident that I'm going with legal advice and possibly court due to fact that what happened could have been quite worse than what had happened with me falling between the train and platform.


Is it too much to ask for to be able to travel without so much hassle between staff either being hostile or refusing to allow disabled people to travel


Worse one was being left stranded untill the next morning.

May also need to consider whether the settlement also includes any non disclosure agreements or undertakings not to pursue further instances of failure.

I will definitely see

 

[typefish]

May also need to consider whether the settlement also includes any non disclosure agreements or undertakings not to pursue further instances of failure.

Given how out of court settlements offered by rail operators to those who have committed minor ticketing infringements do not contain such conditions, in my personal opinion I would see it as being rather unreasonable for any out of court settlement offered by a rail operator when facing a civil prosecution themselves to include them.

 

[Haywain]

Given how out of court settlements offered by rail operators to those who have committed minor ticketing infringements do not contain such conditions, in my personal opinion I would see it as being rather unreasonable for any out of court settlement offered by a rail operator when facing a civil prosecution themselves to include them.

A civil case is very different to a criminal case.

 

[Jodysd6]

So my incident with failure is that it also involved a safety issue and resulted in me falling between the train and platform and CCTV footage from on board the train show it , CCTV footage on platform was apparently not working.

And I have lost count how many times pre booked assistant has failed me from either being over carried or staff flat out refused to assist saying they don't provide it.

This is first incident that I'm going with legal advice and possibly court due to fact that what happened could have been quite worse than what had happened with me falling between the train and platform.


Is it too much to ask for to be able to travel without so much hassle between staff either being hostile or refusing to allow disabled people to travel


Worse one was being left stranded untill the next morning.


I will definitely see

If the fall caused any injury which had an associated additional costs (such as loss of income) these should be accounted for separately, vento banding is specifically for injury to feelings as a result of discrimination.

While we all know it happens all the time have previous incidents with this TOC been reported/raised as complaints? Have you had refunds for previous journeys where access has failed? (Most Accessible Travel Policies should cover that they will issue a full refund where there is an assistance fail, so any refunds for this could also be used as evidence of previous failings). Repeated fails by the same TOC where you have raised this before would likely increase the amount to be considered.

It's not too much to ask, it's 2024 and level boarding should be standard, and I get it as I am currently looking at options for my latest access fail, you can be certain every single one going forward will be reported and complaints logged, instead of me shrugging them off as just what happens.

 

[Kieran_MF135]

If the fall caused any injury which had an associated additional costs (such as loss of income) these should be accounted for separately, vento banding is specifically for injury to feelings as a result of discrimination.

While we all know it happens all the time have previous incidents with this TOC been reported/raised as complaints? Have you had refunds for previous journeys where access has failed? (Most Accessible Travel Policies should cover that they will issue a full refund where there is an assistance fail, so any refunds for this could also be used as evidence of previous failings). Repeated fails by the same TOC where you have raised this before would likely increase the amount to be considered.

It's not too much to ask, it's 2024 and level boarding should be standard, and I get it as I am currently looking at options for my latest access fail, you can be certain every single one going forward will be reported and complaints logged, instead of me shrugging them off as just what happens.

I have had full refund or half refunded on tickets when assistant has failed me.

But this cases I have is lot more then ticket and is the 4 Digit number of settlement. And the toc has done it lot of time before I have lots complaints. And keep on doing it with false promises.

And nail in the coffin was the instead where it involved a injury.

 

[Jodysd6]

If this is repeated by one TOC and they have made assurances and not improved then could be either lower or middle band, and it's hard to offer suggestions of a reasonable amount as the range is so large, is your solicitor not able to suggest what is reasonable to settle for?