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Out of date railcard
- Thread starter mazza887
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Possible misunderstanding on behalf of the staff member. They have to charge you for your full journey, not the full journey of the train.
Yet it was a GWR train which would therefore not go to Birmingham.
Most plausible scenario I can think of is that the guard mistyped "BRI" as "BIR" and tapped the top item on the list without looking. It's utterly bizarre though.
father_jack
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That's a unfair judgement to make when the full facts of the situation are not known and are possibly not been completely disclosed.
OK might have done something stupid here but I noticed the tickets the inspector gave me said refundable and exchangeable for a fee. So I went into Bristol and asked for a refund and said I didn’t want to travel and that the tickets have not been used. They provided me a full refund though they took my name, address and I had to sign paperwork. Hoping that will be the end of the matter??
More than happy to call it based on the evidence here. Unless you’re calling the OP a liar. Choose wisely.
I’m sorry there has been so much confusion. For avoidance of doubt the full summary is:
1. I entered the Bath Spa train station and went to the machine and bought two day returns to Bristol Temple Mead with a two together rail card.
2. The tickets were issued to me from the machine in Bath Spa at 10:27.
3. I then boarded the train on Platform 1. The train departed from Bath Spa at 10:30 to Bristol Temple Mead (about 3 stops)
4. During the journey I was approached by the ticket inspector and discovered my railcard had expired (expired 23rd May).
5. The ticket inspector stated they could issue a penalty fare but won’t, instead they will charge me for new tickets from Birmingham for £158.
6. I stated I don’t want to go to Birmingham, I’m going to Bristol. The ticket inspector said no because I have done this I have to buy these tickets from Birmingham.
7. We paid for the tickets and she moved onto the people to the right of us and did the same again to them (not sure what their issue was but there was some problem with their tickets as well). I then renewed my railcard.
8. My husband then said can we get a refund we have renewed the railcard and she got angry and said no we can’t.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
1. I entered the Bath Spa train station and went to the machine and bought two day returns to Bristol Temple Mead with a two together rail card.
2. The tickets were issued to me from the machine in Bath Spa at 10:27.
3. I then boarded the train on Platform 1. The train departed from Bath Spa at 10:30 to Bristol Temple Mead (about 3 stops)
4. During the journey I was approached by the ticket inspector and discovered my railcard had expired (expired 23rd May).
5. The ticket inspector stated they could issue a penalty fare but won’t, instead they will charge me for new tickets from Birmingham for £158.
6. I stated I don’t want to go to Birmingham, I’m going to Bristol. The ticket inspector said no because I have done this I have to buy these tickets from Birmingham.
7. We paid for the tickets and she moved onto the people to the right of us and did the same again to them (not sure what their issue was but there was some problem with their tickets as well). I then renewed my railcard.
8. My husband then said can we get a refund we have renewed the railcard and she got angry and said no we can’t.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
She absolutely did not because I complained about the massive cost of Birmingham and requested tickets to Bristol
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Classic stuff.
I encourage you to complain to GWR about this. This won’t be the first time they’ve done this and it wasn’t the last, as they also did it to some other unsuspecting punters too.
Haywain
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It's perhaps not the ideal course of action, although you were certainly entitled to a part refund, but I very much doubt anything nore will come of it. Taking name and address when a refund request is submitted is entirely routine.
I’m hoping if this inspector’s course of action wasn’t right that hopefully the tickets don’t link to a record of “fare evasion” via my out of date rail card and therefore the refund will be the end of the matter. Not sure whether I should complain so as not to draw any further attention to the matter.
The issue you might have is claiming the tickets were unused when they were sold to you on board a train.
All depends on whether anyone looks into the refund.
Yes I did think this but I can prove I was in Bath at the time of sale having stayed at a travelodge the night before, paying for parking the night before, getting breakfast the morning in Bath and then buying the tickets for the journey I was doing shortly before doing the journey in Bath. So at no point was I near Birmingham.
As your original tickets were not valid for travel as you did not have a in date railcard.
You have partially used the new tickets, therefore you weren't entitled to a full refund.
You’ve travelled on the return portion of those tickets given you had no other valid ticket. This renders the refund value effectively nil, I’m surprised the ticket office refunded them when they’d clearly been purchased on board.
But how could I be doing the return part when they had only been purchased about 30 mins before I asked for a refund (as in it wouldn’t have been possible to travel the outbound journey) - just thinking if this is taken further. Why didn’t they just sell me a single in that case?
The only part of that ticket which is valid for you to travel is the return portion. What other valid ticket did you have?
It didn't because you purchased it without a valid railcard.
SuspectUsual
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Have you made any other journeys using a railcard discount since your railcard expired, and if so were any booked online?
SuspectUsual
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Yes it’ll be fine
The reason I asked about previous bookings was because if you had used it when you shouldn’t, it would be a big factor in your decision as to whether or not you complain. If you did complain, it’d be almost certain they’d look at your buying history, but if there’s nothing dodgy that might be found then that’s nothing to worry about
Haywain
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I’m feeling extremely stressed and sick about all this. What was supposed to be a nice weekend away seeing some comedy in Bristol has been ruined. I’m now scared to death we are going to be prosecuted for fraud. My husband works in a public service role that requires full DBS clearance.
I’d expect any reasonable operator to take immediate disciplinary action against any member of staff doing this. Are GWR a reasonable operator?
About 2% so around £3. There may be GWR staff here that can confirm this.
Is this what you meant?
An actual fraud conviction is almost impossible based on the situation, especially given they’ve clearly done something notably strange with their on board revenue duties. It doesn’t stop the fact there was the initial offence although this was “dealt with” on board. The original offence never happened as far as the railway is concerned as you were sold a new ticket rendering the matter closed.
You applied for a refund on a pair of tickets that had been partially used, these were sold on board and had no link to you personally until you applied for the refund.
As the refund process there requires personal details (which is absolutely standard practise) it has linked your tickets with your identity but there is no link to it being connected to the incident on the train. It’s unlikely anymore will come of this, but if you complain this could be looked into.
It’s almost a shame you’ve refunded the tickets as you’d have had more grounds to complain (despite being in the wrong) had you not done so.