Outstations

[robertclark125]

Outstations fascinate me. The way they work, the way vehicles end up there during the day and night, the facilities they have. Stagecoach Fife has one at Newburgh, which is an outstation of Glenrothes. Many oeprators have outstations, both big firms and small firms.

Outstations are in various places, from industrial estates, to houses, to factories, or even police stations! There are numerous photos of outstations on Flickr.

So, how do various outstations work, what facilities do they have? Do they vary between places? I know of one which has a bus wash and fuelling. Whats the usual maximum size of vehicle allocation to an outstation?

And, many outstations were originally depots. Newburgh is an example. But what others do you all know of? And, here's a rare one, where have outstations become full depots again? North Berwick of First is one.

And usually outstations are linked to one depot. Are there examples where the outstation is linked to more than one depot? What about drivers? Is there a fixed pool of drivers who always start and finish at the outstation, or do the drivers from the main depot sometimes work out of the outstation?

So come on, let's talk outstations!

 

[Deerfold]

Outstations fascinate me. The way they work, the way vehicles end up there during the day and night, the facilities they have. Stagecoach Fife has one at Newburgh, which is an outstation of Glenrothes. Many oeprators have outstations, both big firms and small firms.

Outstations are in various places, from industrial estates, to houses, to factories, or even police stations! There are numerous photos of outstations on Flickr.

So, how do various outstations work, what facilities do they have? Do they vary between places? I know of one which has a bus wash and fuelling. Whats the usual maximum size of vehicle allocation to an outstation?

And, many outstations were originally depots. Newburgh is an example. But what others do you all know of? And, here's a rare one, where have outstations become full depots again? North Berwick of First is one.

And usually outstations are linked to one depot. Are there examples where the outstation is linked to more than one depot? What about drivers? Is there a fixed pool of drivers who always start and finish at the outstation, or do the drivers from the main depot sometimes work out of the outstation?

So come on, let's talk outstations!

I'm assuming Keighley and District has some places buses live overnight apart from the obvious depot in the middle of Keighley.

I recently had a spate of getting the first train from Keighley which unfortunately runs before my bus service starts.

Whilst walking to the station I was invariably passed by at least 4 out-of-service buses - the 2 *from* Keighley I could understand but there'd be 2 going in as well. Always thought it a shame that they couldn't run in service but I assume that would have repercussions fo drivers hours (and force them to run if they don't always).

 

[Tom B]

There is an advantage to operators in running in service, as they can then claim BSOG for those journeys (even if nobody uses them). In theory they would then have to run, although since when did anyone hold bus operators to account?

 

[mbonwick]

The ones going into Keighly could possibly driver's services, to get staff from their homes to the depot in time for the start of service.

 

[Deerfold]

The ones going into Keighly could possibly driver's services, to get staff from their homes to the depot in time for the start of service.

Possibly, but there's rarely anyone but the driver on them that I can see.

I know at one time the drivers' services in and around Halifax operating from about 0450 used to be open to anyone (nos 80-85).

 

[robertclark125]

What facilities do outstations have? Do they vary place to palce, company to company? indeed, do different outstations in the same firm have different facilities?

 

[mbonwick]

Yes, Yes and Yes.

Can vary hugely. For example, jsut before it closed Shafton depot was an outstation with full facilities, but all maintainence done at Rawmarsh.

Penrith O/S has fuel and secure parking.

Some of the outstations in Scotland are drivers homes (!) due to the rural nature, and some in Wales are carparks.

 

[Tom B]

Is there a formal definition of what an "outstation" is?

 

[martinsh]

There is an advantage to operators in running in service, as they can then claim BSOG for those journeys (even if nobody uses them).

BSOG can also be claimed on "dead" mileage i.e. to/from depot at start / end of day when not in service.

 

[trentside]

Is there a formal definition of what an "outstation" is?

I don't think so. It seems to vary from company to company. My normal definition would be a place with less than 10 vehicles parked, and no maintenance or other facilities.

Lincolnshire RoadCar used to outstation one bus in the car park of the Red Lion at Digby - I believe the usual bus was an MCW Metrobus. I think it was connected to the operation of a school contract.

 

[anthony263]

An outstation can also be the depot of another operator, most of the time they are small yards/car parks.

I used to take the bus home sometimes especially if i was on the early morning shift or had gone a late night/early morning rail replacement

 

[Deerfold]

BSOG can also be claimed on "dead" mileage i.e. to/from depot at start / end of day when not in service.

You sure?

I realise this link is only a summary of the conditions but there's no mention there:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/publications/conditions-of-eligibility-psv360-for-bus-service-operators-grant/

 

[starrymarkb]

Western Greyhound use some holiday parks to park Varios ready for service.
Stagecoach used to have a Dart parked in the ATS Yard in Ottery St Mary evenings and Sundays (not sure if they still do)

 

[Wyvern]

I've often wondered about Trent Barton's garage at Doveholes which seems to be completely isolated in the Peak District and, I imagine, very bleak in Winter.

 

[robertclark125]

What is now Stagecoach in the Highlands (was Highland Country) had two buses outstationed in Bettyhill at drivers houses. And if you go to Ireland, Bus Eireann outstations many buses, especially those on schools work, this way.

For many years, Stagecoach Fife outstationed two minibuses from st Andrews depot at Cupar. This practice ceased in 2001, and the buses work directly from the depot every day.

Do drivers work solely from outstations, and if so, how do they book on and off?

 

[martinsh]

You sure?

I realise this link is only a summary of the conditions but there's no mention there:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/publications/conditions-of-eligibility-psv360-for-bus-service-operators-grant/

Quite sure. I've been dealing with BSOG in a business capacity for almost 20 years now.

 

[Deerfold]

Quite sure. I've been dealing with BSOG in a business capacity for almost 20 years now.

Fair enough - seemed rather counterintuitive as I'd have thought they'd be trying to promote running buses in service.

 

[robertclark125]

And would make the point of an outstation redundant.

Has anyone on here ever worked at an outstation, or currently works at one? What's it like compared to a main depot?

 

[Deerfold]

And would make the point of an outstation redundant.

Why?

There's nothing to stop a bus running in service to an outstation - or a garage.

 

[robertclark125]

I meant running buses out of service at the start of their duties, from the outstation to the depot.

 

[mbonwick]

Do drivers work solely from outstations, and if so, how do they book on and off?

If we take Stagecoach Lancaster's Ingleton outstation as an example;
2 MAN ALX300s are stabled there overnight during school term time. The driver who finishes his duty there will park the bus and wait for the next service back into Lancaster (and then down to the depot). Note that the duties which take buses out there aren't the last at night.

Similarly in the morning the driver will travel out on the first service, having first signed on and collected a defect card from the depot.

At least, I *think* that's how it works....

 

[robertclark125]

If we take Stagecoach Lancaster's Ingleton outstation as an example;
2 MAN ALX300s are stabled there overnight during school term time. The driver who finishes his duty there will park the bus and wait for the next service back into Lancaster (and then down to the depot). Note that the duties which take buses out there aren't the last at night.

Similarly in the morning the driver will travel out on the first service, having first signed on and collected a defect card from the depot.

At least, I *think* that's how it works....

That would be impossible at Newburgh, as the last bus to Glenrothes leaves Newburgh at 21:20, and the last bus from Newburgh to Glenrothes arrives in Newburgh at 23:38.

A friend in the know tells me Crieff outstation of Stagecoach Perth has a fixed pool of drivers, and an office, not much else though.

 

[driver9000]

If we take Stagecoach Lancaster's Ingleton outstation as an example;
2 MAN ALX300s are stabled there overnight during school term time. The driver who finishes his duty there will park the bus and wait for the next service back into Lancaster (and then down to the depot). Note that the duties which take buses out there aren't the last at night.

Similarly in the morning the driver will travel out on the first service, having first signed on and collected a defect card from the depot.

At least, I *think* that's how it works....

When I was at Stagecoach, the Drivers were permanently allocated to Ingleton (one even lived up that way). The Drivers booked on by telephoning Morecambe depot inspectors and brought the buses into service (two went to Ingleton Community centre, the other to Kirkby Lonsdale I think). The buses were diagrammed to work into Morecambe so the Drivers could pay in the previous days revenue and for the bus to be fuelled/washed/swapped etc. At the end of the day the buses were put back into the Pennine garage and the Drivers made their own way home from there. The duties all began before the first bus from Lancaster reached Ingleton. Garstang outstation worked in the same way too.

The B10s were a tight fit into that garage, I'd hate to put a MAN in there!!!

 

[mbonwick]

Fair play driver9000, I bow to your superior knowledge! I was just wondering how long it would be before you put me right

Length wise the MANs are fine according to Gez - the Leopard has gone and a short National appeared in its place. However width wise I suspect they could be a very tight squeeze!

 

[cainebj]

Fair play driver9000, I bow to your superior knowledge! I was just wondering how long it would be before you put me right

Length wise the MANs are fine according to Gez - the Leopard has gone and a short National appeared in its place. However width wise I suspect they could be a very tight squeeze!

Width of the MAN's is only a few cm wider than a B10M, barely anything in it, they just appear wider with their low floor design.

Expanding on mbonwick's description of Penrith Outstation (I've been in it myself and have seen how it all works).
Penrith has a PVR of 9, and they have a spare allocated too. The vehicles are often allocated there for a period of 3 weeks each, before a switch-over to allow the vehicles to go back up to Carlisle for their 21 day service, however this is not always the case. The general allocation is 3 Volvo Olympians, 2 Volvo B10M's, 2 MAN Enviro 300's, 1 Optare Solo and 1 mini Dennis Dart (spare vehicle). The 2 MAN Enviro 300's are permanent allocations to Penrith, and a vehicle (usually spare MAN Enviro 300 24122) is allocated to Penrith while maintenance is carried out, then the Penrith MAN's 24123/4 return to Penrith as soon as maintenance work is completed. The Optare Solo is a "special" Solo Slimline, with various modifications to tackle the difficult route over Honister Pass and Whinlatter Pass, the Solo Slimline's are always allocated to these, except when time for maintenance when a 51 reg Optare Solo with no modifications will cover.
The drivers all live in the Penrith area, however some drivers to travel down from Carlisle every now and then to cover.
There's 2 portacabin's in the outstation, 1 is a drivers rest room with a small toilet room, sink, a hot drinks machine and a microwave. The other comprises of an office, a paying-in room, and a storage cupboard. There's also a fuel tank, and a pressure washer for drivers to fuel up and wash their vehicles at night.
Up until recently, the outstation was manned by an inspector, however due to operational requirements in Carlisle, the outstation is no longer manned, and the drivers themselves do everything. The first driver to the outstation in the morning will open up, open the office, collect a defect card from the office and collect his float for the day. The last driver back at night will lock up. The last driver out in a morning locks up the portacabins before leaving. In some cases, the first driver will check over all vehicles, and report any defects to Carlisle to get replacement vehicles sent down before other drivers turn up for duty, and get the defected vehicles to Carlisle for maintenance. The outstation is often opened up again during the middle of the day, when 2 Volvo Olympians return from their college special runs on services 104 and 214.

Ambleside is another outstation, but of Kendal depot. This outstation is purely for parking up buses on layover during the day, and overnight. There are no facilities at all, purely just park up the buses. The way the bus duty's work means that a vehicle will never sit at Ambleside for 2 consecutive nights, one at Ambleside one night will always return to Kendal the following day, to allow for re-fuelling etc.

 

[robertclark125]

Newburgh works the same as Ambleside.