overcharging on oyster

[captbrax]

Recently I went on TFL website to check out the new fares for this year. I compared 2014 to 2015 that's when I noticed that have they have been overcharging me for my journey. Travelling from zone 6-2 is should be £2.70 peak and £1.50 off peak but on my oyster history I have been charged £3.90 peak and £2.50 off peak. But it states clearly on the website the cost for those journeys. On the TFL site they said you can only claim for the past 28 days.

I just wanted to know if its legal for them to post a fare online but to charge another for the same route? And I always touch in and out, so its not that.

Looks like they are making a profit from us oyster users

I've spent the last coupe of days being on hold to them and I can't afford to keep calling and being put on hold for 20-30mins at a time.

 

[swt_passenger]

You probably need to tell us your start and finish stations and normal route.

Certain journeys assume travel is via zone 1 whatever you actually do, and some also use 'train/tube' fares which are higher than tube only fares.

 

[MikeWh]

As I suggested to you on my site when you asked this same question, it was probably the difference between NR set fares and TfL set fares. £3.90 and £2.50 were the correct fares for zone 2-6 on NR routes (most of South London plus bits of North London beyond the NLL/Goblin). £2.70 and £1.50 were the correct fares for zone 2-6 on TfL routes (Overground, C2C, FGW, Chiltern and most of the centre north of the river).

If you confirm your journey we can say for sure.

 

[captbrax]

My route from Feltham station on South West trains to clapham junction. Then clapham junction to East Croydon on Southern trains. So from zone 6 to zone 2 then to zone 5. I never go into zone 1.

 

[CyrusWuff]

The "Single Fare Finder" on the TfL site shows that as being £4 Peak/£2.60 Off-Peak on Oyster, that being the NR PAYG rate. The lower £2.80/£1.50 rate is the Tube/DLR/Overground rate.

 

[maniacmartin]

There is a common misconception (which I think TfL like to perpetuate), that a journey passing through a certain set of zones (2-5 in this case) at a certain time of day will cost the same regardless of which trains are taken. This is sadly not true.

From our Fares, Ticketing and Routeing Guide (based on MikeWh's research):

Oyster fares do not just depend on the time of day and zones travelled through, but also the modes of transport as defined on this map:

• TfL Rail - London Underground, DLR, London Overground and the National Rail services that are shown in green on the map
• National Rail - All National Rail services on which Oyster is accepted

For each combination of zones there is a fare for travel wholly on TfL rail, a fare for travel wholly on National Rail and, for a Mixed Mode fare for journeys involving travel on both.

London Overground is a member of both groups: a LO + Tube journey will be charged as TfL Rail, whereas a LO + Other National Rail TOC journey will be charged as National Rail.

For journeys involving Zone 1, Mixed Mode fares are significantly higher than the other two. (For non-Zone 1 journeys it is the same as the National Rail rate). To find out the price of a journey, consult the TfL Single Fare Finder.

 

[bb21]

My route from Feltham station on South West trains to clapham junction. Then clapham junction to East Croydon on Southern trains. So from zone 6 to zone 2 then to zone 5. I never go into zone 1.

In that case, £3.90/£2.50 is correct. You were not overcharged.

See TfL's Single Fare Finder. Your journey is charged on the National Rail fare scale so these fares apply (up 10p from last year, hence coincides with what CyrusWuff said) because your journey involves travel on red routes.

maniacmartin has provided a detailed explanation regarding the two different charging scales above.

 

[pne]

For journeys involving Zone 1, Mixed Mode fares are significantly higher than the other two.

What's the rationale behind that? Why should a mixed journey cost more than either component?

 

[bb21]

What's the rationale behind that? Why should a mixed journey cost more than either component?

The reason behind it boils down to the fact that some National Rail operators were not happy with the fare scale TfL set as they expected to see a fall in revenue, so when Oyster PAYG was extended to all operators within London, a compromise was reached with some National Rail operators that a premium would be charged on journeys involving travel on both National Rail (on these operators) and London Underground, which is currently £1.60 plus the relevant National Rail fare for applicable zones if Zone 1 is involved, and a premium of zero is charged otherwise.

This means a ridiculous situation where some National Rail operators (who adopted TfL fares from an earlier stage) charge different fares to others, hence the "green" and "red" routes. This also meant that we ended up with three different prices for the same zonal combination (actually it's four but one of them is another one plus zero premium as things currently stand).

 

[captbrax]

So even on their website it clearly states that the cheapest fare will be charged.
But in my instance this is not the case. How can this be legal to print in black an white on price and statement. Then charger higher. At the end of the day it's the same zone regardless which operator so it should be a fixed fare for that zone.

 

[captbrax]

As you can see the prices for zones traveller in when using pay as you go oyster.

 

[OwlMan]

As you can see the prices for zones traveller in when using pay as you go oyster.

You have conveniently missed off the title of the above table which shows that it refers to London Overground, DLR and London Underground only and not to National Rail.

Details of Oyster National rail fares are at
http://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/fares/national-rail

 

[bb21]

So even on their website it clearly states that the cheapest fare will be charged.
But in my instance this is not the case. How can this be legal to print in black an white on price and statement. Then charger higher.

Cheapest appropriate fare.

At the end of the day it's the same zone regardless which operator so it should be a fixed fare for that zone.

That is not how it works.

I understand that it is highly confusing, but that is what we are stuck with for now. Perhaps you would like to raise a complaint with relevant organisations (TfL, relevant train companies who refused to accept TfL's fare scale - South West Trains, SouthEastern, Southern, GoVia Thameslink, etc) about differing charging scales for the same zonal combination, but it does not mean you were incorrectly charged on this occasion.

If you are referring to the wrong faretable then they are not the appropriate fares.

As you can see the prices for zones traveller in when using pay as you go oyster.

No, that is the wrong faretable. I have provided you with the correct link in Post 7.

 

[maniacmartin]

At the end of the day it's the same zone regardless which operator so it should be a fixed fare for that zone.

It probably should be, but sadly it is not. I do sympathise, as I think TfL are quite happy for people to think that its only based on zones, and do nothing to counter the common belief that it is. That's probably why the National Rail fares are buried in another table elsewhere on their website.

That said, if you read the information carefully, it is clear what you will be charged. The easiest way is to use the TfL Single Fare Finder.