Oxford Tube: long waits at intermediate stops?

[TheManOnThe172]

I am trying to do some research for someone thinking of moving to Oxford and commuting to London Marble Arch three days a week by Oxford Tube.

They are thinking of looking to live within walking distance of one of the intermediate stops in Oxford.

With strictly limited capacity and no ability to book a place (and no coaches starting short as far as I can tell), there seems quite a risk that passengers trying to join at intermediate stops could face a long wait at busy times if coaches fill up at previous stops.

Tripadvisor has a few unhappy reports of very long waits, but I can't work out how often this happens.

Could any regular user advise?

 

[SouthEastBuses]

I am trying to do some research for someone thinking of moving to Oxford and commuting to London Marble Arch three days a week by Oxford Tube.

They are thinking of looking to live within walking distance of one of the intermediate stops in Oxford.

With strictly limited capacity and no ability to book a place (and no coaches starting short as far as I can tell), there seems quite a risk that passengers trying to join at intermediate stops could face a long wait at busy times if coaches fill up at previous stops.

Tripadvisor has a few unhappy reports of very long waits, but I can't work out how often this happens.

Could any regular user advise?

As an occasional user of the Oxford Tube and from my experience, boarding times tend to be long at the stops in the departing location (for example, from Oxford to London, you'll have a lot of people getting on at the Oxford stops) however, they are very quick at the stops in the arrival location. Put it clearer, it takes much longer for people to board at Oxford stops when going towards London than it would be at London stops for people alighting when going towards London. This is because the driver has to check and sell all tickets when passengers board.

Luckily, the Oxford Tube is the UK's most frequent coach route, running 24/7 every 10 mins, so should you miss the first one because it's full, you don't have to wait too long for the next one.

See here for a timetable summary. The full timetable is available for download from that page

Timetables | Oxford Tube - London to Oxford

www.oxfordtube.com

 

[W-on-Sea]

I used to commute occasionally (as in one or two days a month) to London on the Oxford Tube from one of the stops in East Oxford (St Clements - so relatively near the city centre) to London, leaving just after 7am. Never had a problem getting on then, and I don't recall anyone ever being turned away at any of the subsequent stops - those coaches are pretty big, and frequent.

In general I found it pretty fantastic as a coach service goes. The main problem would be that congestion (or accidents) on the M40, or within Greater London, could cause delays or diversions, and as such I had far more problems on the evening (or even more so, late night) journeys from London. It could be painfully slow crawling from Acton to Hillingdon, particularly. The main problem in the mornings (by no means everyday, but not rare either) could be heavy levels of traffic causing delays, so I'd sometimes bail at Hillingdon and get the Met Line in from there. Again the worst stretch for traffic would usually be that within Greater London, rather than the M40.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

I used to commute occasionally (as in one or two days a month) to London on the Oxford Tube from one of the stops in East Oxford (St Clements - so relatively near the city centre) to London, leaving just after 7am. Never had a problem getting on then, and I don't recall anyone ever being turned away at any of the subsequent stops - those coaches are pretty big, and frequent.

In general I found it pretty fantastic as a coach service goes. The main problem would be that congestion (or accidents) on the M40, or within Greater London, could cause delays or diversions, and as such I had far more problems on the evening (or even more so, late night) journeys from London. It could be painfully slow crawling from Acton to Hillingdon, particularly. The main problem in the mornings (by no means everyday, but not rare either) could be heavy levels of traffic causing delays, so I'd sometimes bail at Hillingdon and get the Met Line in from there. Again the worst stretch for traffic would usually be that within Greater London, rather than the M40.

This is very true, traffic on the A40 can be terrible.

 

[TheManOnThe172]

I recently had the chance to talk to three Oxford Tube staff who were between trips at Gloucester Green bus station. I asked them whether passengers often got left behind at intermediate stops.

They told me that if they do leave passengers behind at an intermediate stop, they will radio to their controller, who will ensure that sufficient space is quarantined on a following bus to make sure they get picked up - so it would be rare to be left behind for long "except for weekends and rail strike days".

 

[Bletchleyite]

Luckily, the Oxford Tube is the UK's most frequent coach route, running 24/7 every 10 mins

Down to every 20 by the looks of it (as a summary, I know you posted the timetable) with late evening/early morning journeys but not quite 24/7.

This is probably understandable - I doubt you'd even start it now, it started when Oxford had an appalling rail service (is it old enough to have been 1st gen DMUs at the time?) but now it has a much better one between InterCity style 80x and Chiltern there's a much smaller market to take two hours faffing about on the motorway to save a few quid. Its market is probably sustained from existing users plus tourists who maybe don't realise quite how far it is and just see the cost saving.

I'd not recommend taking this on as a daily commute simply because of the journey time. You'll be on three hours ish each way door to door, that's almost as much time spent travelling as in the office. A very poor work-life balance indeed.

 

[danielcanning]

Down to every 20 by the looks of it (as a summary, I know you posted the timetable) with late evening/early morning journeys but not quite 24/7.

This is probably understandable - I doubt you'd even start it now, it started when Oxford had an appalling rail service (is it old enough to have been 1st gen DMUs at the time?) but now it has a much better one between InterCity style 80x and Chiltern there's a much smaller market to take two hours faffing about on the motorway to save a few quid. Its market is probably sustained from existing users plus tourists who maybe don't realise quite how far it is and just see the cost saving.

I'd not recommend taking this on as a daily commute simply because of the journey time. You'll be on three hours ish each way door to door, that's almost as much time spent travelling as in the office. A very poor work-life balance indeed.

I have to disagree that only tourists use the Oxford Tube, the service is extremely handy if you live in the east of the city, it can take nearly an hour just to reach the station from Headington during the peaks.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have to disagree that only tourists use the Oxford Tube, the service is extremely handy if you live in the east of the city, it can take nearly an hour just to reach the station from Headington during the peaks.

I didn't say only tourists used it, I said a body of existing regulars and tourists

Anyone taking on a daily 3 hour door to door commute is frankly mad - that was the main point. However I suppose with more home working it may be acceptable say 2 days a week.

An hour to walk to the station or 17 minutes on a pushbike. I would agree if you drove from Headington to Oxford station you'd be mad! . Indeed, by car from Headington I'd probably be looking at High Wycombe as a railhead rather than the bus. The service itself is fine (I've used it) but the problem is just how much a commute like that takes out of your day.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Down to every 20 by the looks of it (as a summary, I know you posted the timetable) with late evening/early morning journeys but not quite 24/7.

This is probably understandable - I doubt you'd even start it now, it started when Oxford had an appalling rail service (is it old enough to have been 1st gen DMUs at the time?) but now it has a much better one between InterCity style 80x and Chiltern there's a much smaller market to take two hours faffing about on the motorway to save a few quid. Its market is probably sustained from existing users plus tourists who maybe don't realise quite how far it is and just see the cost saving.

I'd not recommend taking this on as a daily commute simply because of the journey time. You'll be on three hours ish each way door to door, that's almost as much time spent travelling as in the office. A very poor work-life balance indeed.

The Oxford Tube is also very popular with us Oxford Brookes students too, again because of cheap prices (until last year, we OBU students only paid £10 period return from Oxford to London!).

 

[duncombec]

I didn't say only tourists used it, I said a body of existing regulars and tourists

Anyone taking on a daily 3 hour door to door commute is frankly mad - that was the main point. However I suppose with more home working it may be acceptable say 2 days a week.

An hour to walk to the station or 17 minutes on a pushbike. I would agree if you drove from Headington to Oxford station you'd be mad! . Indeed, by car from Headington I'd probably be looking at High Wycombe as a railhead rather than the bus. The service itself is fine (I've used it) but the problem is just how much a commute like that takes out of your day.

Have you used it recently, out of interest, or is this Opinion Presented As Fact?

It's only reduced to 20 minutes in the week, which perhaps suggests a lower commuting usage, but more frequent at the weekend - including a 10 minute frequency on Saturdays at peak out and back times - suggesting a higher leisure usage. I used it on a Thursday to Oxford about a month ago, and despite only having 6 people on board at Victoria, we picked up at every intermediate stop, including Hillingdon. I was on the wrong side of the coach to do an exact count, but judging from people I could see and movement on the coach, about 20 got off at Thornhill alone. There were queues of similar sizes every time I walked past the stops at Brookes University as well.

As for a 90-minute each way commute... this is definitely Opinion Presented As Fact...

 

[W-on-Sea]

I used to commute a couple of days a month on the Tube, when I lived in East Oxford and occasionally worked a 15 minute walk from the Marble Arch stop. Even without the need to go all the way into Oxford railway station, the entire journeywas still at least an hour slower than the train, but in some ways more convenient, while the vast difference in price was looked upon very favourably by my employers.

 

[RELL6L]

Where the Oxford Tube really works is for East Oxford and Headington, which is where a lot of people live, including students. For them the station is not convenient. My son used it when he lived in the city, he boarded in East Oxford and rarely got left behind, if he did there was usually another one along soon. We sometimes met him and dropped him at Hillingdon, again very rarely a long wait or a full coach heading back. Of course the traffic just gradually gets worse and there are road works on the A40 in London at the moment which must make it worse but this is a very good service.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As for a 90-minute each way commute... this is definitely Opinion Presented As Fact...

Three hours, i.e. 180 minutes. Each way. Six hours of travel each day. Grim.

The coach in the morning peak, e.g. the "fast" at 0610 which I'd expect to be the most popular office-worker commuter journey, takes around two hours and thirty minutes. Add in getting to the stop to board and getting from the London stop to your office, and three hours is optimistic.

90 minutes is impossible at any time of day from Oxford itself - the shortest off peak journey time is around two hours. From Headington you may get the peak commute end to end down to perhaps 2h45ish at best, still grim.

 

[duncombec]

Three hours, i.e. 180 minutes. Each way. Six hours of travel each day. Grim.

The coach in the morning peak, e.g. the "fast" at 0610 which I'd expect to be the most popular office-worker commuter journey, takes around two hours and thirty minutes. Add in getting to the stop to board and getting from the London stop to your office, and three hours is optimistic.

90 minutes is impossible at any time of day from Oxford itself - the shortest off peak journey time is around two hours. From Headington you may get the peak commute end to end down to perhaps 2h45ish at best, still grim.

Apologies, I misunderstood what you were saying.

But nevertheless, you've still taken a very specific example and used it to build an argument, without actually knowing whether anybody uses it as such. Thornhill - Baker Street (for onwards connections, to, say, Westminster) is 90 minutes, so probably lopping an entire hour off your example. It rather seems to me that Gloucester Green and Victoria are, at times, simply convenient places to turn coaches around, and in the former an interchange point for local buses coming from the west.

Have you used the service?

My one off, midday, arguably-against-the-flow journey matches those experiences of regular users almost exactly, so I can only imagine peak coaches are rather fuller.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Have you used the service?

Not often, but I have a few times. A few were Saturdays, but one was in the morning peak when I'd been (planned) in the John Radcliffe Hospital overnight and still needed to go to work in London the morning after. I did conclude after the latter (I did get off at Baker St) that I'd no way do it daily.

 

[markymark2000]

I'll be honest, I've not used the Oxford Tube beyond Thornhill to Gloucester Green but based on what I have seen on tracking and on many videos which people post online on Youtube, the issue with the Tube is the journey times can be so variable so they have to set the journey times as so long because some days they'll need it, other days they won't.

Getting out of Oxford is scheduled as 30 minutes which equates to an average speed of 9 miles per hour. Same for the average speed within London. It's not the fastest and has too many traffic lights and not enough bus priority. The fact the journey times can vary by up to an hour depending on the time of day really shows just how bad the congestion is. As soon as you look at tracking, it's clear that congestion can vary so much and the timetable seems to be mostly based on the best case scenario so even in the peak, there can be larger delays so journeys take 3 hours end to end. It's really bad and I would like to see both Oxford Council and TFL look to start some kind of proper bus priority to speed up the Tube service.

 

[MotCO]

My only concern is will the services continue over the next few years. Go Ahead used to run coaches in competition with Stagecoach, and ran them for many years, but have now pulled out presumably because the market is shrinking. We always thought that the Kent coach commuter would go on for ever, but it is now a shadow of its former self - The Kings Ferry stopped all of its services with only a month's notice.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My only concern is will the services continue over the next few years. Go Ahead used to run coaches in competition with Stagecoach, and ran them for many years, but have now pulled out presumably because the market is shrinking. We always thought that the Kent coach commuter would go on for ever, but it is now a shadow of its former self - The Kings Ferry stopped all of its services with only a month's notice.

I have wondered. One of the key reasons for its existence was that the rail service was, to be blunt, garbage. Not only is it substantially improved, but there are two competing options. Plus there's reduced commuting.

What are loadings like? Are there enough tourists to keep it going, either in its current form or as a less frequent, advance-booked service? (I'd say Megabus had Stagecoach not planned to sell it).

 

[duncombec]

I'll be honest, I've not used the Oxford Tube beyond Thornhill to Gloucester Green but based off what I have seen on tracking and on many videos which people post online on Youtube, the issue with the Tube is the journey times can be so variable so they have to set the journey times as so long because some days they'll need it, other days they won't.

And the problem with setting long journey times is, as you've mentioned on other threads, an issue because you then have to wait for those timings. If my experience with commuter coaches is anything to go by, regulars will know, and adjust their timings accordingly, almost ignoring the timetable.

Getting out of Oxford is scheduled as 30 minutes which equates to an average speed of 9 miles per hour. Same for the average speed within London. It's not the fastest and has too many traffic lights and not enough bus priority.

There are extensive bus lanes between Thornhill and St Clements - the issue is coming up to The Plain, where the road is barely wide enough for two lanes, let alone any bus priority, and around Oxford City Centre. I can't remember how the coaches used to be routed before the closure of Queen Street (I think they've always gone the long way around to Gloucester Green?), but remember Oxford City Council is already actively unpleasant towards car drivers.

The fact the journey times can vary by upto an hour depending on the time of day really shows just how bad the congestion is. As soon as you look on tracking too, it's clear that congestion can vary so much and the timetable seems to be mostly based off best case scenario so even in the peak, there can be larger delays so journeys take 3 hours end to end. It's really bad and I would like to see both Oxford Council and TFL look to start some kind of proper bus priority to speed up the Tube service.

There are roadworks on the A40 at the moment and a temporary speed restriction, which were the only cause of delay to my journey.

My only concern is will the services continue over the next few years. Go Ahead used to run coaches in competition with Stagecoach, and ran them for many years, but have now pulled out presumably because the market is shrinking. We always thought that the Kent coach commuter would go on for ever, but it is now a shadow of its former self - The Kings Ferry stopped all of its services with only a month's notice.

Quite possibly, but they've taken a sensible move rather than trying to carve it out. Oxford Bus (OBC) do airports, Stagecoach do London. Remember that the Tube has just had brand new coaches, albeit delayed through the pandemic, and at -19- plate, OBC's Tourismos are still fairly new as well. The story with Kent commuter coaches is rather different, as they only had the commuter market, whereas Tube has leisure travel too. (*)

I have wondered. One of the key reasons for its existence was that the rail service was, to be blunt, garbage. Not only is it substantially improved, but there are two competing options. Plus there's reduced commuting.

What are loadings like? Are there enough tourists to keep it going, either in its current form or as a less frequent, advance-booked service? (I'd say Megabus had Stagecoach not planned to sell it).

As we've said upthread already, whilst the rail service may have been the start of the service, it is not now the end. Many people, in East Oxford particularly, are not going to go 20+ minutes in the opposite direction to the station, they'll "turn right" and drive down the A40 instead.

Tube doesn't have loading figures, but as I write, there's an airport coach on the M25 with 41 seats free, the previous service is waiting time at Heathrow T5 with 25 free, and the coach just arriving into oxford has 24 free. To Heathrow, one coach currently has 33 free, and to Gatwick 38, 35 and 30 free. I don't know the Tourismo capacity offhand, but that's the majority of coaches over half full, which doesn't seem bad for off-peak Wednesday. (It's at least 54, because the coach waiting at Heathrow Central for the 17:05 departure has 54 free)


(*) Just a brief note to avoid going too off-topic - don't intend to develop this further: before Covid, Kings Ferry ran ca. 34 coaches. Even when they restarted services filling 3.4 coaches was a bit of a difficulty. Roadworks for the Silvertown Tunnel were going to make a bad situation at Blackweall worse, and TfL had a difficult relationship with the market - not treating them as local buses, even though they were, for example, or stringent requirements on layovers/parking. I believe there was also some redevelopment taking place at their daytime parking site. I was one of a few regulars who tried to persuade them to try a weekend service, but to no avail.

 

[markymark2000]

Tube doesn't have loading figures, but as I write, there's an airport coach on the M25 with 41 seats free, the previous service is waiting time at Heathrow T5 with 25 free, and the coach just arriving into oxford has 24 free. To Heathrow, one coach currently has 33 free, and to Gatwick 38, 35 and 30 free. I don't know the Tourismo capacity offhand, but that's the majority of coaches over half full, which doesn't seem bad for off-peak Wednesday. (It's at least 54, because the coach waiting at Heathrow Central for the 17:05 departure has 54 free)

Tourismos have 55 seats available so most of these buses are only 1/3rd full.

 

[Simon75]

The Oxford Tube stops at Lewknor, with seems very popular (and used as an unofficial P&R)

 

[Falcon1200]

This is probably understandable - I doubt you'd even start it now, it started when Oxford had an appalling rail service (is it old enough to have been 1st gen DMUs at the time?)

Express buses between Oxford and London have run since (at least) the 1970s; I used them then, when still at school, for trainspotting trips to London, because they were cheaper than the train.

 

[duncombec]

Tourismos have 55 seats available so most of these buses are only 1/3rd full.

Thanks - I was working off 53 seaters, rather than 55. Let's agree at 40%, which in itself, isn't bad

However, loadings do seem to vary heavily. For example, there are two coaches out this morning when, deducting the free seats from their capacities (55 or 63 for the interdecks) are carrying more than 40 passengers. Yet other coaches are carrying little more than a dozen, including preceding or subsequent departures to those more heavily loaded. Although this is the Airport service by Oxford Bus, rather than the Tube, I would suggest that a similar pattern is likely to be the case on the Tube.