P7 Off-Peak Restriction: 16:03 from PAD to PNZ

[trenopendo]

Hi All,

I got an Off-Peak Travelcard with the P7 restriction, which prevents using the 16:03 GWR service from PAD to PNZ.

However, I found that this service won't exist during the next two weeks. It is now the 16:03 GWR service from PAD to SAU.

Does that mean that one is technically allowed to use this service? Or will GWR excuse a sneaky expansion of this restriction due to this https://www.gwr.com/travel-information/travel-updates/planned-engineering/cornwall ?

Can TOCs amend the restrictions on the fly? Food for thought.

 

[jfollows]

"SAU" is presumable St Austell. Please expand all abbreviations you use. PNZ being Penzance. PAD being London Paddington. I kind of guessed these two but had no idea about the first.
You would not be allowed to use the service, even on a technicality, because it's the 16:03 to Penzance terminating short at St Austell because of engineering works.
If the departure time were changed, then it'd be technically possible, however the "heavies" on the gate lines at Paddington would probably prevent you anyway.
That'd be my take.

 

[trenopendo]

Oh, I forgot that using abbreviations was frowned upon. Funnily enough, not using abbreviations is frowned upon in forums dealing with airlines

Yes, SAU is St Austell.

GWR is selling the service as London PAD to St Austell. Of course, life's perhaps too short to argue at the barriers...

 

[Watershed]

In practice, you are highly unlikely to be let through the barriers and you won't have a journey planner itinerary on the 16:03 to back you up in trying to recover any new ticket you buy. I wouldn't try it; it's just too much hassle.

 

[mangyiscute]

Yeah often when train times change by a minute or 2 in timetable changes this can come up, or trains get extended/curtailed so they are now technically not the train as described in the restriction code - there's literally 0 chance you'd be allowed on imo

 

[Watershed]

Yeah often when train times change by a minute or 2 in timetable changes this can come up, or trains get extended/curtailed so they are now technically not the train as described in the restriction code - there's literally 0 chance you'd be allowed on imo

I think it's a little different if a train is retimed. The departure time and destination is the (supposedly) unique identifier of a particular train in the British system. GWR have Main Line departures just 2 minutes apart from Paddington, so it's not outlandish to say that changing a departure time by a couple of minutes introduced ambiguity as to what train is being referred to.

Moreover, depending on the exact interaction of the new departure time with the way the time restrictions have been set up in the industry data, it's often possible to obtain an itinerary on a journey planner to justify using a particular train with an Off-Peak ticket. Whilst the inability to do so doesn't guarantee something isn't valid, if you are offered an itinerary you can always rely on it.

But if a train is merely curtailed to terminate short of its normal destination whilst retaining the same departure time, I think you'd be hard-pressed arguing that it suddenly becomes a completely different train.

 

[mangyiscute]

Yeah, I mean I have seen it for example when a Bristol train has been extended to Weston-Super-Mare, but the restrictions still say Bristol, or even they add in a brand new train which is not suggested in the old restrictions - personally I am of the thought that it is not worth it to try and challenge it, tbh.

 

[CyrusWuff]

I think it's a little different if a train is retimed. The departure time and destination is the (supposedly) unique identifier of a particular train in the British system. GWR have Main Line departures just 2 minutes apart from Paddington, so it's not outlandish to say that changing a departure time by a couple of minutes introduced ambiguity as to what train is being referred to.

Moreover, depending on the exact interaction of the new departure time with the way the time restrictions have been set up in the industry data, it's often possible to obtain an itinerary on a journey planner to justify using a particular train with an Off-Peak ticket. Whilst the inability to do so doesn't guarantee something isn't valid, if you are offered an itinerary you can always rely on it.

In this case, GWR have set the restrictions up in the electronic data using time bands for their services leaving Paddington rather than specific trains, given the latter would need to be updated at every timetable change. Those bands being 1600 - 1605, 1610 - 1849, 1857 - 1905, and 1914 - 1919; also not valid to arrive at Didcot Parkway between 1826 and 1827, nor between 1926 and 1927. The only other PM peak restriction on the Return leg being from Euston between 1600 and 1815.

 

[mangyiscute]

Tbh the thing that annoys me is that every ticket seems to have a slightly different policy when it comes to the last train you can use it on - some you can use it on the 1918, some you can't, some you can use on the 1907, some you can't, some you can't even use on the 1928! I generally just go for the 1907 or later since I think most staff treat those trains (including the 1918) as off-peak trains, since it has always traditionally been 4-7 is peak

 

[Watershed]

Tbh the thing that annoys me is that every ticket seems to have a slightly different policy when it comes to the last train you can use it on - some you can use it on the 1918, some you can't, some you can use on the 1907, some you can't, some you can't even use on the 1928! I generally just go for the 1907 or later since I think most staff treat those trains (including the 1918) as off-peak trains, since it has always traditionally been 4-7 is peak

Well, quite. GWR of course might try to argue that they're spreading the demand, but this is pent-up demand that is only caused because of their pricing structure in the first place - so the answer surely isn't inconveniencing and confusing customers further!