Pacer route list

[A S Leib]

Is there a list / does anybody know all lines pacers regularly ran on whilst in service? I can't find a list elsewhere.

Thank you.

 

[Bevan Price]

Is there a list / does anybody know all lines pacers regularly ran on whilst in service? I can't find a list elsewhere.

Thank you.

At some time. I think that Pacers operated on all services currently operated by Northern Trains.

(Not sure about Windermere - never saw one there myself.)
They also worked North Wales Coast to Holyhead & Llandudno, plus Bidston to Wrexham Central.

 

[A S Leib]

At some time. I think that Pacers operated on all services currently operated by Northern Trains.

(Not sure about Windermere - never saw one there myself.)
They also worked North Wales Coast to Holyhead & Llandudno, plus Bidston to Wrexham Central.

Thank you. Any idea if they ever did any current EMR services, and which Welsh Valleys, Devon, Cornwall, (Bristol?) lines they ran on?

 

[Neptune]

(Not sure about Windermere - never saw one there myself.)

143’s worked Oxenhome to Windermere shuttles in the early days when they were based at Heaton. They also worked Edinburgh to Bathgate when it first re-opened.

Thank you. Any idea if they ever did any current EMR services, and which Welsh Valleys, Devon, Cornwall, (Bristol?) lines they ran on?

I saw NL based 142’s and 144’s on Peterborough - Lincoln - Doncaster services in the early 90’s.

 

[Bevan Price]

Thank you. Any idea if they ever did any current EMR services, and which Welsh Valleys, Devon, Cornwall, (Bristol?) lines they ran on?

They were working the Cardiff Valleys, Barry Island when I was on holiday in that area in about 1999/2000. Ebbw Vale was still a dream at that time.

 

[hilly]

They were working the Cardiff Valleys, Barry Island when I was on holiday in that area in about 1999/2000. Ebbw Vale was still a dream at that time.

Pretty sure I’ve seen one as far west as Fishguard- must’ve been an interesting ride for the punters

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

As far as South Wales goes it's easier to say where they didn't go. I believe they were kept off the Heart of Wales line, even though, conceptually at least, it was one of the routes for which they were originally intended and Abergavenny was the usual limit on the Marches route. But they got everywhere else. They even had a round trip Cardiff-Exeter and return for a while.

When new a batch was painted in a GW style livery and based at Laira to work the Cornish branches for which they were officially nicknamed "Skippers"; the severe curvature on the Gunnislake branch and especially the Looe branch soon saw them sent away never to be seen in Cornwall again! But in Devon they were eventually very much a mainstay of the Devon Metro routes from Exeter to Barnstaple/Exmouth/Paignton with occasional use on Axminster workings. At one point there was also a stock interchange working between Exeter and Westbury via Taunton.

Around Bristol they were regulars on the Severn Beach line as well as the stoppers south to Taunton and north to Gloucester. Trips to Westbury were far from unknown and they were common for a while on Swindon-Melksham-Westbury and on the Stroud Valley line. I suspect they may have occasionally made it to Warminster too.

The comment upthread about complete coverage of Northern's network is not quite right. Concerns about their ability to stop on long downhill stretches in leaf-fall season led to them being kept off the Buxton line and for a long time there was a definite preference to keep them away from Clitheroe too. Not sure they worked on the S&C either apart from the evening Leeds-Ribblehead-Skipton turn which was a solid 144 turn at one point. And of course prior to Leeds North electrification they worked those services too.

 

[Neptune]

As far as South Wales goes it's easier to say where they didn't go. I believe they were kept off the Heart of Wales line, even though, conceptually at least, it was one of the routes for which they were originally intended and Abergavenny was the usual limit on the Marches route. But they got everywhere else. They even had a round trip Cardiff-Exeter and return for a while.

When new a batch was painted in a GW style livery and based at Laira to work the Cornish branches for which they were officially nicknamed "Skippers"; the severe curvature on the Gunnislake branch and especially the Looe branch soon saw them sent away never to be seen in Cornwall again! But in Devon they were eventually very much a mainstay of the Devon Metro routes from Exeter to Barnstaple/Exmouth/Paignton with occasional use on Axminster workings. At one point there was also a stock interchange working between Exeter and Westbury via Taunton.

Around Bristol they were regulars on the Severn Beach line as well as the stoppers south to Taunton and north to Gloucester. Trips to Westbury were far from unknown and they were common for a while on Swindon-Melksham-Westbury and on the Stroud Valley line. I suspect they may have occasionally made it to Warminster too.

The comment upthread about complete coverage of Northern's network is not quite right. Concerns about their ability to stop on long downhill stretches in leaf-fall season led to them being kept off the Buxton line and for a long time there was a definite preference to keep them away from Clitheroe too. Not sure they worked on the S&C either apart from the evening Leeds-Ribblehead-Skipton turn which was a solid 144 turn at one point. And of course prior to Leeds North electrification they worked those services too.

They have semi regularly worked up the S&C. In the early days in the height of summer a 3 car 144 would be attached to the 156 on a morning down working, would stay over at Carlisle for a few hours before attaching to a busy up working later. They were sporadic on the route since that time up to withdrawal.

 

[33017]

As far as South Wales goes it's easier to say where they didn't go. I believe they were kept off the Heart of Wales line, even though, conceptually at least, it was one of the routes for which they were originally intended and Abergavenny was the usual limit on the Marches route. But they got everywhere else. They even had a round trip Cardiff-Exeter and return for a while.

When new a batch was painted in a GW style livery and based at Laira to work the Cornish branches for which they were officially nicknamed "Skippers"; the severe curvature on the Gunnislake branch and especially the Looe branch soon saw them sent away never to be seen in Cornwall again! But in Devon they were eventually very much a mainstay of the Devon Metro routes from Exeter to Barnstaple/Exmouth/Paignton with occasional use on Axminster workings. At one point there was also a stock interchange working between Exeter and Westbury via Taunton.

Around Bristol they were regulars on the Severn Beach line as well as the stoppers south to Taunton and north to Gloucester. Trips to Westbury were far from unknown and they were common for a while on Swindon-Melksham-Westbury and on the Stroud Valley line. I suspect they may have occasionally made it to Warminster too.

The comment upthread about complete coverage of Northern's network is not quite right. Concerns about their ability to stop on long downhill stretches in leaf-fall season led to them being kept off the Buxton line and for a long time there was a definite preference to keep them away from Clitheroe too. Not sure they worked on the S&C either apart from the evening Leeds-Ribblehead-Skipton turn which was a solid 144 turn at one point. And of course prior to Leeds North electrification they worked those services too.

They occasionally got to Llanwrtyd / Llandrindod from the south but were always swapped to return on the Swansea-bound train as Arriva / TfW crews in the north didn’t sign them and they were barred from Shrewsbury in passenger service (treated as on-track plant on the rare occasions they ran through there ECS).

They also made it as far north as Craven Arms from Cardiff when the night Hereford used to be extended there on Saturday mornings, always returning ECS to Hereford for the return working to Cardiff.

Every bit of passenger track in south & west Wales was regularly worked by them, although they were less common to Milford Haven than the other two west Wales branches.

 

[Mat17]

The last Northern 142 I travelled on was running a Leeds-Carlisle service (c.Nov 2019), don't know if it went the whole way as I only went as far as Keighley.

Also Pacers didn't go south of Sheffield (Dore to be pedantic) iirc, I never saw one on a Nottingham, not sure if they were cleared for that route.

 

[Neptune]

Also Pacers didn't go south of Sheffield (Dore to be pedantic) iirc, I never saw one on a Nottingham, not sure if they were cleared for that route.

Chesterfield was the furthest they could go south. Before the Leeds - Nottingham service started pacers were booked to work the Sheffield - Chesterfield service alongside 153’s.

 

[Anonymous10]

Is there a list / does anybody know all lines pacers regularly ran on whilst in service? I can't find a list elsewhere.

Thank you.

ATW and later TFW pacers could regularly be found on the following welsh services, in my experience,
*cardiff / Swansea / Carmarthen - Fishguard and Pembroke Dock
* south wales valleys lines.
*Maesteg, Ebbw Vale and Cheltenham routes.
*Vale of Glamorgan.

I'm sure other posters could enlighten the North of Wales.

 

[Along the bay]

ATW and later TFW pacers could regularly be found on the following welsh services, in my experience,
*cardiff / Swansea / Carmarthen - Fishguard and Pembroke Dock
* south wales valleys lines.
*Maesteg, Ebbw Vale and Cheltenham routes.
*Vale of Glamorgan.

I'm sure other posters could enlighten the North of Wales.

Never North Wales after ATW came into being - only those that ended their lives with Northern went to North Wales under FNW. Theres a picture out there from 2003 with a 142 substituting for a 175 on a Manchester - Llandudno at Manchester Oxford Road.

 

[SteveM70]

They also worked Edinburgh to Bathgate when it first re-opened

I'm 99.9% sure that I've seen a photo of one at Dumfries, presumably on one of the old Northern-crewed services from Carlisle

 

[Anonymous10]

Never North Wales after ATW came into being - only those that ended their lives with Northern went to North Wales under FNW. Theres a picture out there from 2003 with a 142 substituting for a 175 on a Manchester - Llandudno at Manchester Oxford Road.

Many thanks, too young to remember pre atw days so just speaking on what I know.

 

[Neptune]

I'm 99.9% sure that I've seen a photo of one at Dumfries, presumably on one of the old Northern-crewed services from Carlisle

Yes fairly certain that HT 142’s made it to Dumfries vice a 156.

 

[Whisky Papa]

When I was creating unit diagrams for Northern in 2007/8, Pacers were barred from the Buxton line beyond Hazel Grove and north of Blackburn to Clitheroe. Whether they had ever operated on those lines I couldn't really say.

 

[Neptune]

When I was creating unit diagrams for Northern in 2007/8, Pacers were barred from the Buxton line beyond Hazel Grove and north of Blackburn to Clitheroe. Whether they had ever operated on those lines I couldn't really say.

They certainly went to Clitheroe later on.

 

[Harvester]

On a couple of occasions I have had one on a Middlesbrough-York service, running flat out on the up main south of Thirsk.

 

[A S Leib]

Did they ever do Northern's (now former, I believe, outside of major Durham Coast disruption) limited service via Durham and Chester-le-Street, and did they ever serve Penrith in passenger service?

 

[181]

they were barred from Shrewsbury in passenger service (treated as on-track plant on the rare occasions they ran through there ECS).

Was that always the case? My recollection is that the first time I ever saw a Pacer (or at least the first time close to) was at Shrewsbury in summer 1986. I can't remember whether it was in service, or if so where it was going.

 

[norbitonflyer]

(Not sure about Windermere - never saw one there myself.)
.

I did, c 1987

 

[Grecian 1998]

When new a batch was painted in a GW style livery and based at Laira to work the Cornish branches for which they were officially nicknamed "Skippers"; the severe curvature on the Gunnislake branch and especially the Looe branch soon saw them sent away never to be seen in Cornwall again! But in Devon they were eventually very much a mainstay of the Devon Metro routes from Exeter to Barnstaple/Exmouth/Paignton with occasional use on Axminster workings. At one point there was also a stock interchange working between Exeter and Westbury via Taunton.

Around Bristol they were regulars on the Severn Beach line as well as the stoppers south to Taunton and north to Gloucester. Trips to Westbury were far from unknown and they were common for a while on Swindon-Melksham-Westbury and on the Stroud Valley line. I suspect they may have occasionally made it to Warminster too.

The class 142s worked on Devon and Cornwall branches (so including Exmouth, Barnstaple and Paignton) from 1986-87. They were then sent up north and the first generation DMUs returned which they had replaced, until there were enough 15X to withdraw the first gen trains entirely, circa 1993-94 I think.

Sometime later (I don't know exactly when) the class 143s turned up and worked the services described around Bristol. They were banned from 3rd rail territory so never made it to Weymouth or Southampton AFAIK. They probably also made it to Frome I suspect.

The class 143s were moved to the Devon Metro services - Exmouth, Barnstaple and Paignton - in December 2006 IIRC. They were supplemented by a few 142s on the same routes from December 2007, which stayed for 4 years until 2011. The 143s lasted much longer - until 2020 - but were usually supplemented with a 153 or 150 in later years.

It's possible they may have occasionally got as far as Plymouth and possibly even Penzance, but they certainly wouldn't have been let back on the branch lines down there.

 

[30907]

They have semi regularly worked up the S&C. In the early days in the height of summer a 3 car 144 would be attached to the 156 on a morning down working, would stay over at Carlisle for a few hours before attaching to a busy up working later. They were sporadic on the route since that time up to withdrawal.

I had a 3-car back around 1991 on the seasonal extra which morphed into the 9.49 - the family were not impressed (though the view was good, and we did have a through train Cononley-Appleby).

Did they ever do Northern's limited service via Durham and Chester-le-Street,

Don't know, but almost certainly yes.

and did they ever serve Penrith in passenger service?

That would be surprising as RRNW and its heirs and successors didn’t run over Shap AFAIK.

 

[norbitonflyer]

As theyw ere only used by Regional Railways, they never got very close to London. Lincoln (on the route from Sheffield) was probably the closest. And although the 143s were Scottish bodies on Scottish frames (Alexander/Barclay respectively) none ever worked north of the Border.

 

[station_road]

As theyw ere only used by Regional Railways, they never got very close to London. Lincoln (on the route from Sheffield) was probably the closest. And although the 143s were Scottish bodies on Scottish frames (Alexander/Barclay respectively) none ever worked north of the Border.

There is a previous thread about one making it to Paddington once as a last minute replacement for a failed 158

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/did-pacers-ever-operate-in-london.200310/

 

[Grumpy]

And although the 143s were Scottish bodies on Scottish frames (Alexander/Barclay respectively) none ever worked north of the Border.

Didn't they operate some early services to Bathgate?

 

[181]

As theyw ere only used by Regional Railways, they never got very close to London. Lincoln (on the route from Sheffield) was probably the closest.

they were common for a while on Swindon-Melksham-Westbury and on the Stroud Valley line

I think Swindon must be the nearest to London they got on regular workings -- 77 1/4 miles, which is the equivalent of only just past Peterborough on the ECML.

 

[A S Leib]

Why weren't they ever used on the Suffolk or Norfolk branches? (Ipswich is 68¾ miles from Liverpool Street.)

 

[MadMac]

Not sure they worked on the S&C either apart from the evening Leeds-Ribblehead-Skipton turn which was a solid 144 turn at one point. And of course prior to Leeds North electrification they worked those services too.

I did Leeds-Carlisle on one in 1998 IIRC. I still have a couple of loose fillings.....