Pacers running on preserved railways - your thoughts?

[dangerousdids2]

All the heritage railways I've ever been to rotate the stock throughout the day so your never gonna just ride pacers all day.

 

[DelW]

In the early days of preservation, the BR 4-wheel railbuses were quite popular on smaller lines or quieter services. They only really dropped out of regular use when rising passenger numbers meant they could no longer handle the business available.

In the same way, I'd be quite happy with use of Pacers by fledgling railways, or at quieter days and times, though I'd expect it to be made clear in timetables which services were expected to be run by steam, classic diesel, or Pacer (or indeed 1st gen DMU). That way visitors make their choice with their wallets, and the railways can see what the demand, and the price sensitivity, is and adjust their diagrams to suit.

Incidentally one of my most enjoyable rides this year was on the Isle of Wight's rebuilt Ryde Pier Tram, a four-wheeler seating 20 people.

 

[DJ_K666]

They definitely have a place in the story of the railways. Where they're of more use is where the railway is trying to be more than just a 'heritage' railway, like the privately run 'community railway' lines that seem to be popping up to offer a service to the nearest town. They're ideal for that kind of short hop commute but for a preserved railway on anything other than a Diesel day or DMU gala probably not.

That said if one turned up on a 'Driver for a fiver' then I'd be right there with a fiver.

 

[Mountain Man]

They are a notable part of the railway history in the UK. Not every type unfortunately has happy memories for the public, but preservation shouldn't just be for types people liked. That said, I think any heritage railway thinking a pacer is a major draw will be disappointed.

I think though one could make an excellent exhibition piece if joined with a bus to demonstrate their origins and they are more interesting as a technical history than a positive memory one

 

[DJ_K666]

They are a notable part of the railway history in the UK. Not every type unfortunately has happy memories for the public, but preservation shouldn't just be for types people liked. That said, I think any heritage railway thinking a pacer is a major draw will be disappointed.

I think though one could make an excellent exhibition piece if joined with a bus to demonstrate their origins and they are more interesting as a technical history than a positive memory one

My best memory was a 75mph non stop run from York to Scarborough round those bends, back when you could still look out of the front.

At the time there was a York to Hull service that was first stop Scarborough and on that occasion was a 142.
It was very loud and very bumpy but a lot of fun.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I think though one could make an excellent exhibition piece if joined with a bus to demonstrate their origins and they are more interesting as a technical history than a positive memory one

Something like this, you mean?:

https://flic.kr/p/ajmGNX

(Not my photo)

 

[DJ_K666]

Something like this, you mean?:

https://flic.kr/p/ajmGNX

(Not my photo)

That was at Brighton 150 about 30 years ago. It's on a Daimler Fleetline chassis.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Here is 142078 at Bishop Auckland West on one of the 12 days per year that the Weardale Railway extends to that town. The path to Bishop Auckland NR station can be seen where well timed connections were available both ways on that particular day. Sadly only a handful of people took advantage.

 

[Bill57p9]

They are a notable part of the railway history in the UK. Not every type unfortunately has happy memories for the public, but preservation shouldn't just be for types people liked. That said, I think any heritage railway thinking a pacer is a major draw will be disappointed.

I think though one could make an excellent exhibition piece if joined with a bus to demonstrate their origins and they are more interesting as a technical history than a positive memory one

Or even better, at somewhere like GCR(N) you cold have a ride on a Pacer and then a Leyland National!

 

[renegademaster]

I wonder if turbostars will ever get much interest for preservation when they finally go?

 

[Bill57p9]

I wonder if turbostars will ever get much interest for preservation when they finally go?

I think I already travelled on a preserved Turbostar hired by EMR...
Or are they really that tired

 

[Mountain Man]

I wonder if turbostars will ever get much interest for preservation when they finally go?

The Turbostar and Electrostar have been a major if relatively unexciting part of UK railway history with the latter enabling a lot of the transition from slam door stock. So yes, undoubtedly some will be preserved

 

[neonison]

If I visit a premier league heritage line and pay full price I expect steam haulage and by something more prestigious than an industrial saddle tank, though contrariwise I don’t need a pacific.
However, Pacers have their place on diesel days/weekends as part of the overall attraction.
I wouldn’t visit a heritage line that only ran Pacers.
Commuter services are a different matter altogether.

 

[m79900]

For railways like the Great Central or Ecclesbourne Valley that have a separate branch, they’d be great as you could run them as a separate ’local service’. Unfortunately, neither have one.

 

[Techniquest]

I've pondered this for a while, and with the SVR being my local heritage line that's what I'm using for my consideration here.

Pacers have been a part of my enthusiast time since the beginning, so they have a bit of a special place in my heart for that reason. They're not my favourite class though, so I'd not rush to travel on the SVR aboard a Pacer. Assuming I was there and one was on the next service, I'd definitely be interested enough to travel the line on one. It's a scenic line, and that's what I'd be interested in. The Pacer would just be the train that got me from A to B.

Would I use a heritage line that only ran Pacers? Maybe, but to be fair I don't do many heritage lines anyway. I actually can't remember the last one I did right now, it's been a while. I don't have any journeys on one listed in the last couple of years, so perhaps I'm not the most qualified to respond to this thread. I'd enjoy the nostalgia, to some extent, but I don't know. I did that London Midland 150 farewell tour in 2011, that took on the SVR and it was quite a novelty travelling the length of the SVR on a pair of 150s. If we were discussing Sprinters on heritage railways, I'd absolutely weigh in!

 

[william.martin]

I've pondered this for a while, and with the SVR being my local heritage line that's what I'm using for my consideration here.

Pacers have been a part of my enthusiast time since the beginning, so they have a bit of a special place in my heart for that reason. They're not my favourite class though, so I'd not rush to travel on the SVR aboard a Pacer. Assuming I was there and one was on the next service, I'd definitely be interested enough to travel the line on one. It's a scenic line, and that's what I'd be interested in. The Pacer would just be the train that got me from A to B.

Would I use a heritage line that only ran Pacers? Maybe, but to be fair I don't do many heritage lines anyway. I actually can't remember the last one I did right now, it's been a while. I don't have any journeys on one listed in the last couple of years, so perhaps I'm not the most qualified to respond to this thread. I'd enjoy the nostalgia, to some extent, but I don't know. I did that London Midland 150 farewell tour in 2011, that took on the SVR and it was quite a novelty travelling the length of the SVR on a pair of 150s. If we were discussing Sprinters on heritage railways, I'd absolutely weigh in!

The demand for the SVR is too high for them to be able to run a pacer (unless doubled up and on midweek services only), I spoke to a SVR volunteer about Pacers a few weeks ago and they said it is highly unlikely they would get one.

 

[Peter C]

I'd never been on, or even seen in person, a Pacer until this weekend just gone, when I visited the Plym Valley Railway (a charming little operation, it must be said). Obviously I had some preconceptions going into it, and I was expecting a bumpy (and perhaps even slightly uncomfortable) ride, but I must say I quite enjoyed it. I don't know how much of that was because it was on quite a short line, though: I don't think I'd want to do the whole of the Severn Valley, or Gloucestershire Warwickshire, on a 142!

The 142 at the Plym Valley looked as though it could've been in service with Northern just the previous day, so it wasn't in 'mint' condition but it was still good fun. Being a big GWR 'nut', if given the choice I'd go for a 14xx and autocoach rather than a 142, but for a small railway with limited funds and stock which just needs to get some trains running once a week, a Pacer seems to work pretty well. I'm not really that knowledgeable about them or their operation at all, but I remember thinking when I saw them first being used on heritage lines that they seemed to be just what some places need - a cheap way of getting a train running. For me, if it's a choice between 'running a Pacer' and 'small heritage operation shuts down because they can't afford steam or a 101' then I'd vote for the former.

-Peter

 

[Ashley Hill]

The 142 at the Plym Valley looked as though it could've been in service with Northern

It retired from Northern but was an original Western Region Skipper.

 

[Kaliwax]

I am happy to see quite a few pacers in preservation, always thought they was an important part of the railway for the last 40 years especially in the North and North East. Granted they wasn't the best trains in the world, but they worked very hard and transported millions and millions of people. We should recognise that that. I know a lot of people didn't like them, but itd be a boring world, if it was just the same type of trains preserved.

 

[xotGD]

Anyone wishing to avoid the Pacers at the KWVR tomorrow can hop across the Pennines to the ELR...

...where a Pacer is in service!

Looking on the webcam at Haworth there seems to be a decent turnout for the pair of Pacers.

Goodness knows why!

 

[Kaliwax]

Do heritage railways advertise before hand that it will be a pacer running? If so, people can just do something else if not interested.

 

[thejuggler]

KWVR announce the units/engines which will be running each day. Pacer is now a regular.

I was in Haworth village this morning/lunchtime and drove past the station and it was busy. Haworth shed was also open which increases numbers.

 

[Kaliwax]

142003 looks absolutely fantastic in the old GMPTE Orange Livery

 

[m79900]

142003 looks absolutely fantastic in the old GMPTE Orange Livery

007 looks even better in the later RR GMPTE livery.

 

[Kaliwax]

Do you mean 142011? Couldn't find a pic of 007. If it is, it does look fantastic.

 

[PacerTrain142]

Anyone wishing to avoid the Pacers at the KWVR tomorrow can hop across the Pennines to the ELR...

...where a Pacer is in service!

Looking on the webcam at Haworth there seems to be a decent turnout for the pair of Pacers.

Goodness knows why!

There’s no escaping the pacers! It’s pretty much railbus weekend at KWVR because as well as the 143 and 144 they also have a little dinky rail bus running in the morning! They are also running a steam service and a 101. I’m planning to go down there tomorrow!

Do heritage railways advertise before hand that it will be a pacer running? If so, people can just do something else if not interested.

Can you imagine the reaction of the public if it was a steam gala but the steam loco broke down so they replaced it with a pacer…?

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Which branch lines did the Pacers save?

For starters the many branchlines of Devon and Cornwall, the Severn Beach Line in Bristol, the Esk Valley Line, Skipton to Morecambe, the Harrogate Line, the Penistone Line, the Pontefract Line, half of the Calder Valley Line and the South Fylde Line (Preston to Blackpool South) to name a few.

The Pacer units are ideal for heritage railways as it does give the preserved line a lot of flexiblity over when they can run the steamers, as some lines may wish to run the steamers on Santa Specials, Halloween, Easter and maybe real ale/fish & chip specials with other diesels filling in for the rest of the time. This is important as the cost of fabricating new parts will cost a fair bit for something built in 1890 or 1923, where as something built in 1987 can simply be pressed into service to keep the revenue rolling in which in turn will keep the line open. This also allows heritage railways to create new events such as diesel galas - why limit yourself to a class 37 when you can add in a Pacer or two.

Then there is the next generation to cater for as well, the two 30 somethings who travelled on them when at "yoonee" could take their offspring to sample travelling on one.

 

[Iskra]

For starters the many branchlines of Devon and Cornwall, the Severn Beach Line in Bristol, the Esk Valley Line, Skipton to Morecambe, the Harrogate Line, the Penistone Line, the Pontefract Line, half of the Calder Valley Line and the South Fylde Line (Preston to Blackpool South) to name a few.

The Pacer units are ideal for heritage railways as it does give the preserved line a lot of flexiblity over when they can run the steamers, as some lines may wish to run the steamers on Santa Specials, Halloween, Easter and maybe real ale/fish & chip specials with other diesels filling in for the rest of the time. This is important as the cost of fabricating new parts will cost a fair bit for something built in 1890 or 1923, where as something built in 1987 can simply be pressed into service to keep the revenue rolling in which in turn will keep the line open. This also allows heritage railways to create new events such as diesel galas - why limit yourself to a class 37 when you can add in a Pacer or two.

Then there is the next generation to cater for as well, the two 30 somethings who travelled on them when at "yoonee" could take their offspring to sample travelling on one.

There’s no concrete evidence for any of that though is there, just assumption.

I’m 33, I’ve done plenty of Northern pacer journeys, I wouldn’t take anyone to any heritage railway where a pacer was the primary rolling stock. Fair enough if it was operating a second service, but I’d choose a different railway rather than go to one only running a pacer.

That said, I have recently booked to go on a 144 around Scunthorpe Steelworks by night, but that’s literally the only way of seeing the site working at night, so the pacer is not the main attraction.

 

[m79900]

Do you mean 142011? Couldn't find a pic of 007. If it is, it does look fantastic.

No, it's 007. They were bought by LSL together, and its been repainted at Eastleigh. If I remember correctly, it was linked in the 'Locomotive Services Fleet (LSL) updates.' thread.

 

[SteveM70]

I’m 33, I’ve done plenty of Northern pacer journeys, I wouldn’t take anyone to any heritage railway where a pacer was the primary rolling stock. Fair enough if it was operating a second service, but I’d choose a different railway rather than go to one only running a pacer

Give it twenty years and then you might!

I’m 52, and 20 years ago I’d have said exactly the same about a first generation DMU. I used them most weeks and they were the lowest of the low

Earlier this month I went to the KWVR and went on their 101 and it was like being put in a mobile time capsule. Even the smell (a nice smell, not the Northern pacer damp / mould smell) when I got on took me back to my youth

Nostalgia is a powerful thing!