Paddington - Reading - Why so many problems?

[Essexman]

The line between Paddington & Reading (mainly Paddington to Slough) seems to get more than its fair share of problems with wires down & points / signal failures.
Former yesterday (again), latter today (again).
Electrification was fairly recent and as far as I'm aware not done on the cheap like the east Coast Main Line.
Is there any reason for what seems to be a disproportionate number of problems?

 

[JamesT]

The line between Paddington & Reading (mainly Paddington to Slough) seems to get more than its fair share of problems with wires down & points / signal failures.
Former yesterday (again), latter today (again).
Electrification was fairly recent and as far as I'm aware not done on the cheap like the east Coast Main Line.
Is there any reason for what seems to be a disproportionate number of problems?

Haven't the majority of wires issues been with the section between Paddington and Heathrow, which was done in the 90s so not to the higher standards of the more recent work on the GWML?

 

[JN114]

The line between Paddington & Reading (mainly Paddington to Slough) seems to get more than its fair share of problems with wires down & points / signal failures.
Former yesterday (again), latter today (again).
Electrification was fairly recent and as far as I'm aware not done on the cheap like the east Coast Main Line.
Is there any reason for what seems to be a disproportionate number of problems?

Short answer:- Drastic cuts to maintenance budgets while running a busier and busier service.

Haven't the majority of wires issues been with the section between Paddington and Heathrow, which was done in the 90s so not to the higher standards of the more recent work on the GWML?

Predominantly; although the recent issues (which have been ongoing since Tuesday night) were at Slough so on the “new” stuff.

 

[mr_moo]

I was on trains through the disruption yesterday and the boards at Paddington said that a train had hit an obstruction on the wires which had caused significant damage. No further info but it did get me wondering - it can't have been something as simple as a plastic bag etc so did someone deliberately throw something over a bridge or something?

 

[plugwash]

I don't know about this particular event, but high winds can move surprisingly large objects. Things like garden trampolines ending up on railways after storms are not unheard of.

 

[mr_moo]

Oh, fair point, something like a trampoline would do some massive damage.

 

[AlastairFraser]

It’s also important to note it’s incredibly intensively served for a 4 track intercity railway with large parts of the infrastructure from the 1840s!
Not many railways anywhere in the world have such a frequent service that is mostly quite high speed services inflicting wear and tear on the infrastructure at a faster rate than metro or regional type services

 

[boiledbeans2]

No westbound trains from Paddington now!

Edit: my info is late. They are recovering the service now with big Elizabeth line delays

 

[JonathanH]

No westbound trains from Paddington now!

Seemingly trying to recover from an earlier trespass incident at Westbourne Park (although GWR were only trying to operate once every two hours today).

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Seemingly trying to recover from an earlier trespass incident at Westbourne Park (although GWR were only trying to operate once every two hours today).

Trespassing incident at West Ealing. My train delayed by two hours.

 

[Acton1991]

Does anyone know how a trespass incident can cause this much havoc? The Elizabeth line isn’t bedding in too well in my eyes - every time I’ve used it there’s been issues.

Coupled with Central line being down, it’s been a horrible journey back from town this evening.

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Does anyone know how a trespass incident can cause this much havoc? The Elizabeth line isn’t bedding in too well in my eyes - every time I’ve used it there’s been issues.

Coupled with Central line being down, it’s been a horrible journey back from town this evening.

Overhead power switched off until BTP attended and dealt with it.

 

[Acton1991]

Overhead power switched off until BTP attended and dealt with it.

Crazy. Surely a better way. I swear the tube isn’t this disrupted when there’s a trespasser

 

[Falcon1200]

Overhead power switched off until BTP attended and dealt with it.

Presumably the trespasser was on an overhead line structure, rather than just on the track? If someone is in danger from the overheads the power has to be switched off, in which case absolute chaos will inevitably ensue.

 

[Jamiescott1]

Apparently delays due to damaged overhead wires at Twyford right now according to automatic announcements at maidenhead (although the manual announcement at the station say delays are caused by a broken down train

 

[345 050]

Have witnessed some sort of delay every day or two since services started from Abbey Wood to Paddington. Not surprised they wanted a low key start with services just doing Abbey Wood-Paddington. Surprised there hasn't been much or any negative press about all the problems since 6 November.

Are some of the issues non infrastructure? Are there more train updates to come which might improve performance. Now it's all joined up, delays on any section can easily spread across all services. It's lucky they still have the high level platforms.

 

[FGW_DID]

Apparently delays due to damaged overhead wires at Twyford right now according to automatic announcements at maidenhead (although the manual announcement at the station say delays are caused by a broken down train

Both are correct, there were two concurrent incidents.

OLE: 9R42 Abbeywood - Reading had an ADD (Automatic Dropping Device) activation, on the Down Relief between Waltham & Ruscombe.
Train: 1A88 activated the GOTCHA / WHEELCHEX on the Up Main at Waltham

 

[Jamesrob637]

I travelled on this line Monday without issues both ways. Guess I must've just been lucky! Outbound was 10am ish and return was 20h ish.

 

[Purple Train]

My perceptions (based on my experiences) are that the line is simply getting a bit congested, as both EL and GWR are in a sort of transition phase between the past timetables and future plans, where everything doesn't quite match up. I presume - and, indeed, hope - that it'll get a lot smoother once everything's integrated properly (next timetable change?), infrastructure notwithstanding.

 

[Benjwri]

I presume - and, indeed, hope - that it'll get a lot smoother once everything's integrated properly (next timetable change?), infrastructure notwithstanding.

Given what the issues have been, I doubt it. The only thing that will go away is the wait on the Elizabeth Line at Westbourne Park. Most issues have been infrastructure related.

If anything it will get worse, with GWR stoppers becoming semi fast on the main line, and therefore currently unused paths being used, meaning more traffic. Freight traffic will also increase, as the construction of Old Oak Common ramps up, which in itself will cause chaos for the next half decade.

 

[mikeb42]

The Elizabeth Line core was brilliant when it was opened. Even with 5 minutes between trains it was almost viable as turn-up-and-go as almost without fail they turned up, on time.

The operative word here is - was. The moment it was connected up beyond Paddington it was ruined.

Even with a higher frequency, just using the core bit has become a turn-up-and-hope lottery like anything else to do with Paddington. Maybe I've been unlucky, but in the last few weeks getting on for 50% of various attempts to use it have been a mess, in several cases requiring abandoning it and running to the nearest grindingly slow tube alternative. 10, 15 minute gaps between services on the core (completely useless in context), everything suddenly coming to a complete halt, PIS bearing no relation to what happens, trains disappearing off the system at the last moment etc. This makes it doubly aggravating that Delay Repay cannot be claimed when this results in repeatedly being delayed by 30-60 minutes getting back to the west. It's back to scanning RTT and the TfL Tube Status pages, formulating multiple contingency plans depending on what shambles seems to be occurring today, factoring in waste of precious time to add padding, all the familiar aggravation.

As far as I'm concerned it would be better running as a shuttle between Stratford/Abbey Wood and Paddington as it actually worked when confined to its own infrastructure. I realise that pretty much defeats the broader object of it, but it was nice to have one example of something that works properly somewhere in the country...

Meanwhile the infrastructure on the mainline between Paddington and Reading has failed over and over and over recently. I've lost count of the number of overhead line failures causing major disruption and it's no longer just the old bit east of Heathrow either. It seems that the newer heavy duty Meccano kit had a reliable lifetime of about 5 years despite being built like a tank...

The age of the infrastructure argument makes no sense to me. Surely the only thing left from the Brunel era is bridges and embankments and the like. Every bit of the track, signalling, electrification, all the relevant station infrastructure has been replaced over and over again. The reason it's intensively used is because the demand is huge - and therefore so is the revenue attributable to that stretch. Why is it so hard to maintain it properly given its exceptionally high economic value?

 

[Benjwri]

Even with a higher frequency, just using the core bit has become a turn-up-and-hope lottery like anything else to do with Paddington. Maybe I've been unlucky, but in the last few weeks getting on for 50% of various attempts to use it have been a mess, in several cases requiring abandoning it and running to the nearest grindingly slow tube alternative. 10, 15 minute gaps between services on the core (completely useless in context), everything suddenly coming to a complete halt, PIS bearing no relation to what happens, trains disappearing off the system at the last moment etc. This makes it doubly aggravating that Delay Repay cannot be claimed when this results in repeatedly being delayed by 30-60 minutes getting back to the west. It's back to scanning RTT and the TfL Tube Status pages, formulating multiple contingency plans depending on what shambles seems to be occurring today, factoring in waste of precious time to add padding, all the familiar aggravation.

Every experience I've had, were you to be wanting to travel on just the core section, it is turn up and go. You ask for a shuttle service, but I don't see the benefit. You're asking have to walk to the high level Paddington and sit and wait to find a train there, whereas in this case you are just doing that at a station in the central section. The only difference I can think of is people find delays when sitting at paddington more acceptable than when in what seems like a tube station. Worst comes to the worst wait till a train going beyond paddington and change at Ealing Broadway, where the boards are more reliable, which I agree is an issue but will be fixed.

Meanwhile the infrastructure on the mainline between Paddington and Reading has failed over and over and over recently. I've lost count of the number of overhead line failures causing major disruption and it's no longer just the old bit east of Heathrow either. It seems that the newer heavy duty Meccano kit had a reliable lifetime of about 5 years despite being built like a tank...

The majority of issues have been trains pulling it down, it's pretty hard to proof it against something like that, no matter how hard you build it it will either rip down the OHLE or rip off the pantograph, either way the line has to be closed. The only other issue haas been the incident at reading station, which had to be built into the station and wasn't 'bomb proof'.

The reason it's intensively used is because the demand is huge - and therefore so is the revenue attributable to that stretch. Why is it so hard to maintain it properly given its exceptionally high economic value?

You say maintain it properly, but how do you suggest that is done? The chance of a failure is effectively random, obviously increasing with age, and there comes a point when you are spending stupid money replacing perfectly fine infrastructure. This is also creates even more disruption, since you can't do the work while trains are running. Lots of money is spent, ut this would still happen if you spent all the money in the world.

 

[TomG]

I was on trains through the disruption yesterday and the boards at Paddington said that a train had hit an obstruction on the wires which had caused significant damage. No further info but it did get me wondering - it can't have been something as simple as a plastic bag etc so did someone deliberately throw something over a bridge or something?

Things like plastic bags can cause damage to wires &/or trains. When an object gets stuck on the wires you need to wait for a) Specialist people who can work with HV & resources (if memory serves) to arrive and b) Confirmation that the power is turned off by control. Then you can clear the line of obstructions. This all takes time and, the busier the line, the more trains are affected. And the GWML is one of the busiest in Britain!

The line between Paddington & Reading (mainly Paddington to Slough) seems to get more than its fair share of problems with wires down & points / signal failures.
Former yesterday (again), latter today (again).
Electrification was fairly recent and as far as I'm aware not done on the cheap like the east Coast Main Line.
Is there any reason for what seems to be a disproportionate number of problems?

I think partially because there are so many trains using that section of track even if there is a small issue it can build up into a bigger issue very quickly. Not only is GWR's network very large but also trains which made it into London would be delayed which has a knock on effect at Paddington.

 

[mikeb42]

Every experience I've had, were you to be wanting to travel on just the core section, it is turn up and go. You ask for a shuttle service, but I don't see the benefit. You're asking have to walk to the high level Paddington and sit and wait to find a train there, whereas in this case you are just doing that at a station in the central section. The only difference I can think of is people find delays when sitting at paddington more acceptable than when in what seems like a tube station. Worst comes to the worst wait till a train going beyond paddington and change at Ealing Broadway, where the boards are more reliable, which I agree is an issue but will be fixed.

The majority of issues have been trains pulling it down, it's pretty hard to proof it against something like that, no matter how hard you build it it will either rip down the OHLE or rip off the pantograph, either way the line has to be closed. The only other issue haas been the incident at reading station, which had to be built into the station and wasn't 'bomb proof'.

You say maintain it properly, but how do you suggest that is done? The chance of a failure is effectively random, obviously increasing with age, and there comes a point when you are spending stupid money replacing perfectly fine infrastructure. This is also creates even more disruption, since you can't do the work while trains are running. Lots of money is spent, ut this would still happen if you spent all the money in the world.

Obviously, anecdotes, positive or negative, don't make data. That doesn't invalidate my missing long-distance trains to the west 2x recently (EL messed up by points failure on the Paddington approaches on one occasion, EL messed up by overhead lines west of Heathrow on another) and just making it via a combination of running and Met/H&C/Circle/Bakerloo on several others. Nor does it invalidate your experience of it all being fine.

That's the point really, it seems to have suddenly become erratic in the manner of most mainline services. You can't rely on it, ergo it is unreliable. A journey for which there should be time to spare has a significant probability of turning into another fail. One concerning aspect of this is that it ought to not matter on the core for the most part. If the trains are in completely the wrong order, or 97 minutes late, who cares as long as they are still 3 minutes apart? However, that's not what's happened recently. My perhaps unrepresentative experience was big gaps and poor or misleading information. Shuttling on the dedicated core infrastructure isn't a serious proposal as it'd negate much of the point of implementing Crossrail in the first place. It's never going to happen. The evidence suggests it'd go back to working reliably if it did though.

On maintenance, my whole point (beneath the surface whingeing) is that the macro picture is not random occurrences within stationary statistics. There is correlation. Things are deteriorating noticeably, punctuality is sliding further, the probability of major disruption is increasing. If something is changing, it's because something else is changing. The only things which can legitimately be dismissed as "random" are some external events. If trains are pulling down wires which were fine before the event then there's something wrong with the train instead - a costly maintenance fail by definition which will be avoidable at some other potentially lower cost. Long experience of an analogous field confirms that something can always be done without going to the far end of the curve where infinite expenditure yields infinitesimal improvement. The difficulty can be understanding the deeper causal mechanisms which are often subtle whole-system things rather than just lack of costly blanket preventive component replacement.

No doubt those responsible try to do this. Being demoralised by a difficult industrial relations climate may not be helping, for a start. That said, scanning back over the whole thread gives the likely core answer. If JN114 (who I believe works for or is associated with GWR and that route) is right that maintenance budgets are being "slashed", then that's case closed really as no amount of professional engineering skill can overcome that.

 

[Acton1991]

This evening wasn’t great either. Small delays heading west, lots of waiting in the tunnels before arriving into Paddington and then total carnage on the platform at Paddington and customers wait for trains heading further west

 

[345 050]

Don't know if this affected all trains, but the westbound train I was on got stopped outside TCR and then when it did go into the platform it failed to line up with the platform doors. We eventually moved forward and doors opened. Thankfully the train remained in service...

 

[reytomas1228]

Ok this just seems like a sick joke at this point. London-bound local services completely blocked now, caused by fire, signalling issues, and whichever other cursed issue is still yet to happen.

 

[mr_moo]

Yep, I was on a train from Swindon to London this morning. Delayed due to a lineside fire. Last week I was on the EL Paddington and watched two consecutive Eastbound trains fail to line up with the doors. Both sat there for a while then departed out of service.
I agree - lots of little things all seem to be adding up at present.

 

[ChewChewTrain]

Yep, I was on a train from Swindon to London this morning. Delayed due to a lineside fire. Last week I was on the EL Paddington and watched two consecutive Eastbound trains fail to line up with the doors. Both sat there for a while then departed out of service.
I agree - lots of little things all seem to be adding up at present.

I know it’s all too easy to join in choruses of condemnation of “the railway”, and I honestly try to put myself in their shoes before I consider doing so, but that, if true (and I have no reason to disbelieve it), is absolutely pathetic. You’d be hard pressed to find a better way of winding up passengers if you were doing so deliberately.

If it’s the case that the people “on the ground” had no ability to correct the situation, then that clearly needs rectifying. If they were able to but didn’t, well, I know kids might be reading this so I won’t say what I really think about that.

 

[matt_world2004]

I've noticed regularly in the late evening it appears the Heathrow Elizabeth line services are skipping Southall despite being on time. There must be something going wrong there