Panorama: "E-Bikes: The Battle For Our Streets"

[Ghostbus]

BBC One - Panorama, E-Bikes: The Battle for Our Streets

Are electric bikes a new menace in need of tighter regulation?

www.bbc.co.uk

Adrian Chiles investigates the extraordinary rise of electric bikes on our streets and what that means for drivers, pedestrians and cyclists.

I must be very old. The thought of even for a moment, driving an e-bike straight at an oncoming Big Bus Tour of London megadekka, one of the early scenes (police seized GoPro footage?), is not my idea of a neat way to save time or earn a crust.

Somehow the jovial befuddlement of Chiles doesn't quite strike me as the stuff of war.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There doesn't need to be greater regulation. Like most things there just needs to be enforcement of the law we already have - the electric motorcycles (for that is what they are) used by these people are already illegal and obvious to the eye within seconds of seeing one.

 

[Ghostbus]

Enforcement is pretty difficult when the police are still using pedal bikes to catch offenders (because we've blocked all the rat runs due to joy riders) and it would presumably be deemed unsafe to use e-bikes to conduct a chase.

The government isn't even collating separate statistics for fatalities caused by e-bikes or pedal bikes, let alone whether the e-bike was legal, modified to be illegal, illegal straight out the box, for personal use, delivery use, a hire bike or stolen.

If you don't know any of that, you won't know if it's better to target the limited resources available toward public education, neighbourhood policing, organised crime policing, theft prevention, councils, trading standards or customs/border security.

Needless to say, the government gave a statement that was all too brief, and didn't even address one of the major problems identified in the programme, food delivery bikes, speaking instead only to hire schemes and antisocial behaviour, their hopes and dreams and earnest work but no concrete actions, plans or any proposed legislation in any area whatsoever. Business as usual.

 

[birchesgreen]

I must be very old. The thought of even for a moment, driving an e-bike straight at an oncoming Big Bus Tour of London megadekka, one of the early scenes (police seized GoPro footage?), is not my idea of a neat way to save time or earn a crust.

I remember a couple of years ago, on the bus home late at night (and sat in the downstairs front seat right by the door). A guy on one of those e-bikes was on the wrong side of the road heading straight for the bus (on his phone i think), luckily the bus horn alerted him in time. Another metre or so and i probably would have had a front row seat to witness some kid's death or serious injury.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I remember a couple of years ago, on the bus home late at night (and sat in the downstairs front seat right by the door). A guy on one of those e-bikes was on the wrong side of the road heading straight for the bus (on his phone i think), luckily the bus horn alerted him in time. Another metre or so and i probably would have had a front row seat to witness some kid's death or serious injury.

Mobile phone zombies are rife in all areas of society, sadly. Pedestrians too. I personally quite like walking straight towards them and seeing the look on their face as they look up from their phone and see me looming towards them at speed (though I wouldn't actually walk into them, I'd move aside at the last second if they didn't notice).

Enforcement is pretty difficult when the police are still using pedal bikes to catch offenders (because we've blocked all the rat runs due to joy riders) and it would presumably be deemed unsafe to use e-bikes to conduct a chase.

They could presumably use motorcycles.

 

[Ghostbus]

They could presumably use motorcycles.

That would surely be seen as even more dangerous. Their current mindset is that matching the speed some of these bikes can reach merely encourages the criminals to floor it and potentially kill someone.

The only upside being you're in worse trouble running away even if you don’t hit someone (as one bicycle copper yelled in a futile effort to end a chase). Given the current law, it's arguably not worth pursuing anyone who has merely committed an ebike offence, rather than used an ebike for a more serious crime.

The programme should really have explored why it was that the Deliveroo bike rider in that chase had reacted like a terrified cornered animal and immediately floored it in an attempt to flee the bicycle copper, when his only probable offence had been riding on a pavement and maybe riding an illegally modded ebike.

In another scene, the blank staring Chiles like befuddlement of the black man in his fifties, a mere private citizen, who did stop, did wait and listen patiently as the white bicycle copper patiently explained in clipped City Of London Constabulary English why he was going to seize his extremely useful but illegal ebike, also hinted at something extremely likely to lead to nowhere good. Also not explored. Just assumed to be a good thing.

As pitched in the programme, the issue is ebikes are now the mode of choice for criminals because they're fast, quiet and untraceable, and measures to stop anti-social behaviour and getaways of the past means that they're easier to get away on than even a scooter much less a full size scrambler. A copper's BMW Tourer would have no chance. Fun to watch though I bet. It's got to be ebikes or drones and cars for a successful pursuit.

That's the war here, if there's a need to go to war. And as ever, the criminals are five steps ahead of the police. Do we even yet have robust strategies against illegal motorbike riding? Or is the tiny Don't Do That sign recently erected on a rural cycleway near me (a National Cycle Route designed for beginners and very young children) the extent of it?

Never seen a copper down there in my life, not in a car, on a motorbike, ebike or Inspector Gadget rotocopter. It's like whacky races down there on a weekend. Someone could get killed. They won't, but it's a thing a Reform UK Councillor can say and will work. A Tory could say it too, if they weren't already a very distant third behind Labour and Reform.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The programme should really have explored why it was that the Deliveroo bike rider in that chase had reacted like a terrified cornered animal and immediately floored it in an attempt to flee the bicycle copper, when his only probable offence had been riding on a pavement and maybe riding an illegally modded ebike.

I suspect the answer is because he was an illegal immigrant and if caught would be deported.

In another scene, the blank staring Chiles like befuddlement of the black man in his fifties, a mere private citizen, who did stop, did wait and listen patiently as the white bicycle copper patiently explained in clipped City Of London Constabulary English why he was going to seize his extremely useful but illegal ebike, also hinted at something extremely likely to lead to nowhere good. Also not explored. Just assumed to be a good thing.

It is a good thing if illegal motor vehicles are removed from the roads. By definition, the law being complied with is a good thing (and if we have bad law the fix is to change it via the appropriate channels, not to stop enforcing it). He should have bought a legal one, it's not exactly difficult to do so. Though the main thing I think is lacking in the law here is that it's legal to sell and import ones which can't be used on the road, as it's quite obvious that that's what they are going to be used for - e-scooters too. People don't buy e-bikes and e-scooters to use in their back garden.

 

[bramling]

BBC One - Panorama, E-Bikes: The Battle for Our Streets

Are electric bikes a new menace in need of tighter regulation?

www.bbc.co.uk

I must be very old. The thought of even for a moment, driving an e-bike straight at an oncoming Big Bus Tour of London megadekka, one of the early scenes (police seized GoPro footage?), is not my idea of a neat way to save time or earn a crust.

Somehow the jovial befuddlement of Chiles doesn't quite strike me as the stuff of war.

I’m not sure about the electric element, however the likes of Deliveroo are a complete menace which I wish would disappear.

Ironically they’re as much of a menace to cyclists as to anyone else. I’ve seen a lot of incidents in London where some idiot on a delivery bike has come straight off a pavement into the path of a cyclist on the road.

I tend to agree with the view that better enforcement of existing laws is probably the way to start.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I’m not sure about the electric element, however the likes of Deliveroo are a complete menace which I wish would disappear.

Food delivery is a useful service, and e-bikes (legal ones) are a great type of vehicle to use for it. It just needs to move on to being done fully within the law.

 

[geoffk]

Only e-bikes which don't comply with the regulations are illegal. The law on e-bikes (and e-scooters) needs to be brought into the 21st century and properly enforced. They should be part of the solution to traffic congestion and pollution. They can be dangerous in the wrong hands and are often used by criminals, but so are cars and we haven't tried to ban those.

 

[bramling]

Food delivery is a useful service, and e-bikes (legal ones) are a great type of vehicle to use for it. It just needs to move on to being done fully within the law.

I’m not convinced the disbenefits outweigh any benefits. Can people really not go out and get their own food? I find it bordering on unethical to expect someone on minimum wage or less to deliver food to (in most cases) the lazy. Like with delivery drivers having people riding around on deadlines just encourages reckless behaviours.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I’m not convinced the disbenefits outweigh any benefits. Can people really not go out and get their own food? I find it bordering on unethical to expect someone on minimum wage or less to deliver food to (in most cases) the lazy. Like with delivery drivers having people riding around on deadlines just encourages reckless behaviours.

I don't see that it's unethical to pay someone minimum wage to deliver food for me any more than it'd be unethical to pay someone minimum wage to drive a taxi with me in it to the restaurant and back. (And once you've worked out the costs you don't earn a lot driving taxis). It's actually something I'd have done if it was a thing when I was a student - get paid to cycle and work when I want - why not?

I do have an issue with the pay not reaching the legal minimum, though.

There are plenty of jobs where one drives to the clock, if you want to ban one you'd need to ban all of them.

 

[dmncf]

I was disappointed that the programme didn't put the number of people Killed or Seriously Injured by e-bikes into the wider context of number of people Killed or Seriously Injured by other motor vehicles such as cars and HGVs. Without this context, I feel like 'The Battle for Our Streets' between pedestrians and e-bike cyclists almost risks being a distraction tactic, distracting us from how most lives are lost on our roads.

 

[deltic]

The way forward would be to make food delivery companies responsible for their "employees" who often are very poor at obeying traffic regulations generally and use illegal ebikes. Fining those companies will lead to far better behaviour far quicker than going after individuals.

 

[bramling]

I don't see that it's unethical to pay someone minimum wage to deliver food for me any more than it'd be unethical to pay someone minimum wage to drive a taxi with me in it to the restaurant and back. (And once you've worked out the costs you don't earn a lot driving taxis). It's actually something I'd have done if it was a thing when I was a student - get paid to cycle and work when I want - why not?

I do have an issue with the pay not reaching the legal minimum, though.

There are plenty of jobs where one drives to the clock, if you want to ban one you'd need to ban all of them.

I’d say the difference is that stuff like Deliveroo appears to be largely unregulated, both in theory and in practice. I’d certainly be happy to look at the likes of Amazon and DPD as well.

People would do better to go out and bring their food back with them. If nothing else it would do their health better.

 

[Bletchleyite]

People would do better to go out and bring their food back with them. If nothing else it would do their health better.

Most would do it by car, which does nothing for their health and adds pollution and danger compared to a courier on an e-bike.

 

[bramling]

Most would do it by car, which does nothing for their health and adds pollution and danger compared to a courier on an e-bike.

In somewhere like London, going out to get food by car isn’t going to be viable for people that don’t have a car. But to be honest I’d prefer a few more car journeys than having streets full of reckless delivery people on bikes, who are a liability all round.

 

[Tetchytyke]

That would surely be seen as even more dangerous. Their current mindset is that matching the speed some of these bikes can reach merely encourages the criminals to floor it and potentially kill someone.

The police can and do use motorcycles to catch moped and e-bike riders, including the use of unmarked motorcycles.

I was disappointed that the programme didn't put the number of people Killed or Seriously Injured by e-bikes into the wider context of number of people Killed or Seriously Injured by other motor vehicles such as cars and HGVs.

Quite.

Between 2019 and 2023, 12 pedestrians were killed by bicycles and 49 by motorcycles.

In the same period, 1,099 were killed by a car. And 17% of pedestrians hit by a HGV were killed.

Reported road casualties in Great Britain: pedestrian factsheet, 2023

www.gov.uk

 

[Oxfordblues]

I find it ironic that the programme was made with funds provided by the compulsory Television Licence fee, but if you watch it without a licence you can face a fine of "up to £1,000". If you can't afford to pay the fine you can be thrown into prison. As you languish in your cell you can watch (TV licence-free) how Deliveroo and Just Eat electric-motorcycle riders get away scot-free while blatantly and repeatedly breaking the law thanks to non-enforcement by the police.

 

[ChrisC]

Only e-bikes which don't comply with the regulations are illegal. The law on e-bikes (and e-scooters) needs to be brought into the 21st century and properly enforced. They should be part of the solution to traffic congestion and pollution. They can be dangerous in the wrong hands and are often used by criminals, but so are cars and we haven't tried to ban those.

I found it a little hard to work out what was the actual point of the programme. The BBC Panorama Programme has usually dealt with important issues in a balanced and sensible way but this programme seemed to miss important facts and issues.

I ride a legal e-bike in a responsible way as do large numbers of people but this fact seemed to be missed. Until I got my folding e-bike a couple of years ago I hadn’t ridden a bike for almost 50 years and as an inexperienced cyclist find it fantastic for cycling along quiet country lanes and cycle trails. It is from a reputable dealer and like all legal e-bikes has to be pedalled, and has a speed limiter with the electric motor cutting out at around 15mph. The programme seemed to ignore the huge number of people like me who ride legally and safely. I have no desire to disable the the speed limiter and certainly don’t have any knowledge of how to disable it. When a selection of e-bikes were shown, in addition to the ones with huge wheels, large illegal powerful motors and batteries, even smaller folding e-bikes were shown as having their speed limiter disabled as though everyone did it.

As the programme went on it became quite clear that it is now normal certain sections of society to ride illegal e-bikes at speed and that very few of them are likely to be caught and challenged for doing this or have these bikes confiscated. I can’t remember how few illegal e-bike riders were caught by the police but it was a very low number. Whenever I go into large urban areas these illegal e-bikes are everywhere. I see dozens of them in Nottingham City Centre every time I go and they are riding at speed without any pedalling. The police must see them too! The delivery riders are a major problem and that was emphasised quite well during the programme. It is difficult for the police to identify and catch them when they are on the move, as they can travel at speed, have no numberplate identification and the riders are usually hooded and masked.

A delivery rider was shown unsuccessfully being chased by the police but I’m sure that there are easier and less dangerous ways for the police to catch them. For example, there is an area in Nottingham, and there must be in most cities, where there are large numbers of take away food outlets and fast food restaurant. Large groupsof these delivery e-bike riders gather in this area with others arriving and departing on fast bikes with no pedalling. Aren’t the police allowed to inspect and confiscate the illegal bikes in these areas where they congregate outside the food outlets without chasing them after they have left.

 

[jon0844]

Only e-bikes which don't comply with the regulations are illegal. The law on e-bikes (and e-scooters) needs to be brought into the 21st century and properly enforced. They should be part of the solution to traffic congestion and pollution. They can be dangerous in the wrong hands and are often used by criminals, but so are cars and we haven't tried to ban those.

I think the programme and the police seem to struggle to differentiate between EAPCs and electric bikes that are really electric motorcycles.

Keep the speed restrictions on electrically assisted pedal bikes so they can be used on cycle lanes and shared pavements, and also encourage the use of electric motorcycles with proper registration, insurance and driving licence. They seem like a good alternative to petrol bikes for environmental reasons, and they could then be used legally for deliveries subject to having the right insurance.

A lot of delivery drivers are going to be scared of police because so many are asylum seekers working illegally for someone who sets up the account and then 'sub contracts' the delivery work.

They are probably not the owner of the bike and likely have to pay to rent it from someone higher up the chain that is taking advantage of them. That is something entirely separate that needs investigating more!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Certainly electric motorcycles are a good thing compared to petrol ones - they just need to be type approved, insured etc and the rider wear a helmet. Prior to the easy availability of e-bikes the normal steed for a delivery rider was a 50cc scooter, which presumably was taxed and insured or they wouldn't be out long before being caught.

I think there's room for both but I also don't think there needs to be any new legislation for either (aside from that I'd allow assisted e-bikes up to 20mph so they can flow with traffic in urban areas, particularly if we're going to follow Wales and drop the urban default to 20), we just need to enforce the legislation we already have.

Scooters I'm not sure. Could perhaps drop the top limit to 10mph and treat them as aids to pedestrianism? 10mph is no faster than a fast runner could manage, and the vehicle itself isn't that heavy or bulky. I use the hire ones and use them on the road as per the law, but they aren't great for that use e.g. it's hard to take a hand off to signal correctly, so maybe they'd be better off slower but ridden on the pavement (or cycle tracks where provided).

 

[Ghostbus]

I found it a little hard to work out what was the actual point of the programme. The BBC Panorama Programme has usually dealt with important issues in a balanced and sensible way but this programme seemed to miss important facts and issues.

I ride a legal e-bike in a responsible way as do large numbers of people but this fact seemed to be missed. Until I got my folding e-bike a couple of years ago I hadn’t ridden a bike for almost 50 years and as an inexperienced cyclist find it fantastic for cycling along quiet country lanes and cycle trails. It is from a reputable dealer and like all legal e-bikes has to be pedalled, and has a speed limiter with the electric motor cutting out at around 15mph. The programme seemed to ignore the huge number of people like me who ride legally and safely. I have no desire to disable the the speed limiter and certainly don’t have any knowledge of how to disable it. When a selection of e-bikes were shown, in addition to the ones with huge wheels, large illegal powerful motors and batteries, even smaller folding e-bikes were shown as having their speed limiter disabled as though everyone did it.

As the programme went on it became quite clear that it is now normal certain sections of society to ride illegal e-bikes at speed and that very few of them are likely to be caught and challenged for doing this or have these bikes confiscated. I can’t remember how few illegal e-bike riders were caught by the police but it was a very low number. Whenever I go into large urban areas these illegal e-bikes are everywhere. I see dozens of them in Nottingham City Centre every time I go and they are riding at speed without any pedalling. The police must see them too! The delivery riders are a major problem and that was emphasised quite well during the programme. It is difficult for the police to identify and catch them when they are on the move, as they can travel at speed, have no numberplate identification and the riders are usually hooded and masked.

A delivery rider was shown unsuccessfully being chased by the police but I’m sure that there are easier and less dangerous ways for the police to catch them. For example, there is an area in Nottingham, and there must be in most cities, where there are large numbers of take away food outlets and fast food restaurant. Large groupsof these delivery e-bike riders gather in this area with others arriving and departing on fast bikes with no pedalling. Aren’t the police allowed to inspect and confiscate the illegal bikes in these areas where they congregate outside the food outlets without chasing them after they have left.

The subtext was definitely that ebikes are useful and aren't going anywhere, but if nothing is done, is it worth the cost? Up to and including fatalities.

But like I said, the befuddled bemused Chiles is probably not necessarily man you need to convey the urgency of something needing to be done.

But he went away happy. His vaguely non-specific old man grumpiness towards the mode changed to a clear understanding of the pros and cons and the relevant issues.

If others did to, that's the BBC's education remit fulfilled.

 

[jon0844]

Going by other forums, it seems people who are into modding bikes with motors etc are upset that things might get tougher for them. These are people who might be going a bit faster than 15.5mph but aren't racing around either. These are like comments on here about maybe increasing the limit a bit, but not allowing a total free-for-all.

And the people who sell EAPCs are upset because now it will have people coming in and saying e-bikes are bad, and perhaps those who have bought one will moan, and it may impact their sales.

So not sure anyone is best pleased.

I get why the issue was topical given the issues with delivery drivers and modded bikes/imported electric motorcycles being used for crime, as well as people being put in extreme danger due to battery fires, but it seems someone perhaps didn't do quite the right level of research OR did but went for the sensational angle instead.

 

[SargeNpton]

Certainly electric motorcycles are a good thing compared to petrol ones - they just need to be type approved, insured etc and the rider wear a helmet. Prior to the easy availability of e-bikes the normal steed for a delivery rider was a 50cc scooter, which presumably was taxed and insured or they wouldn't be out long before being caught.

I think there's room for both but I also don't think there needs to be any new legislation for either (aside from that I'd allow assisted e-bikes up to 20mph so they can flow with traffic in urban areas, particularly if we're going to follow Wales and drop the urban default to 20), we just need to enforce the legislation we already have.

Scooters I'm not sure. Could perhaps drop the top limit to 10mph and treat them as aids to pedestrianism? 10mph is no faster than a fast runner could manage, and the vehicle itself isn't that heavy or bulky. I use the hire ones and use them on the road as per the law, but they aren't great for that use e.g. it's hard to take a hand off to signal correctly, so maybe they'd be better off slower but ridden on the pavement (or cycle tracks where provided).

In Northampton a considerable number of the hire scooters are already ridden on the pavement - fully expecting pedestrians to jump out of the way. That's in addition to those being ridden two-up, the wrong way down one-way streets, through red lights, across parks, by people who are obviously underage, etc.

Each time the scooter hire scheme comes up for renewal we are promised that the operators will impose tighter controls but still there are those users who ignore all the conditions that are supposed to be part of the hire.

 

[jon0844]

The problem with e-scooters is that bar some trials, which are speed limited, geo-locked and requires hirers to be of a certain age, the others are used by people who know it's illegal to use them - so from the outset, why would anyone expect them to abide by any rules (there are no rules; they can't be used on a road or pavement).

The fact that even the hired ones are being abused shows the problem, and that means better enforcement (both by the police AND the councils who could and should terminate the trials if companies don't stop the offending).

The problem is that while they are potentially dangerous both for the users taking risks AND pedestrians, the number of deaths are still quite low - so it's not considered a problem until it is, and then it's too late. Police turn a blind eye most of the time, and you can see how they only really take action as part of a big operation to send out a message before stopping again.

Here, the police stopped seizing e-scooters because they had no more room and the ones they'd taken hadn't been processed/passed on. So I guess you can argue safety in numbers; have enough people break the law and eventually many will be fine because others took one for the team.

Another thing brought up in the programme was the allegation that the cycle to work schemes are being misused to sell these illegal bikes on salary sacrifice schemes, and clearly people are making good money from such schemes - but not for the benefit of everyone else.

 

[JamesT]

Scooters I'm not sure. Could perhaps drop the top limit to 10mph and treat them as aids to pedestrianism? 10mph is no faster than a fast runner could manage, and the vehicle itself isn't that heavy or bulky. I use the hire ones and use them on the road as per the law, but they aren't great for that use e.g. it's hard to take a hand off to signal correctly, so maybe they'd be better off slower but ridden on the pavement (or cycle tracks where provided).

I've not ridden them, but I've seen the hire scooters in Oxford with indicator lights. No need to wave your hands about. Do the ones in your area not have that?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've not ridden them, but I've seen the hire scooters in Oxford with indicator lights. No need to wave your hands about. Do the ones in your area not have that?

Most don't. A few do but they're mostly broken as they are on the bar ends which hit the floor when idiots push them over.

 

[david1212]

I’m not convinced the disbenefits outweigh any benefits. Can people really not go out and get their own food? I find it bordering on unethical to expect someone on minimum wage or less to deliver food to (in most cases) the lazy. Like with delivery drivers having people riding around on deadlines just encourages reckless behaviours.

When my local council discontinued their meals-on-wheels service they stated that clients could order from McDonalds, one of the Pizza business etc for home delivery. How any of these could be considered to be a both a healthy and nutricious regular replacement for the meals that were provided and affordable is OT to this thread.

The relevance is that some people can not get out independantly.

As to the e-bikes used by Deliveroo etc riders those I see are more like an electric moped than a UK legal electrically assisted pedal bike. I must look closer if they actually have to pedal at all but certainly the way they can accelerate and the speed they can achieve with electric 'assistance' is way outside of the UK legal definition. As to the road regulations for bikes if the riders even they even know what they are they totally ignored as they seek prioritising the fastest route.

 

[Indigo Soup]

As to the e-bikes used by Deliveroo etc riders those I see are more like an electric moped than a UK legal electrically assisted pedal bike. I must look closer if they actually have to pedal at all but certainly the way they can accelerate and the speed they can achieve with electric 'assistance' is way outside of the UK legal definition.

And they could, potentially, be legal if type approved, registered and insured as such. But it seems that many aren't, and that's bringing EAPCs (and regular bicycles) into disrepute by association.

Ultimately, the problem isn't that e-bikes are especially dangerous - it's that there are an awful lot of unregistered, uninsured electric motorbikes on the streets!