Paper tickets vs E-tickets

[Techniquest]

Ticket machines (or booking office windows) could issue contactless tickets that can be used again, perhaps for a small charge the first time to encourage reuse. Then we could finally get rid of magnetic stripes and all the mechanical complexity and expense of maintaining ticket barriers to process them. I think there will always be some people for whom planning and buying in advance on a phone won't work.

Oh without a doubt, there will always be people that applies to.

Ideally, what we would have is something similar to Oyster, Dublin's Leap, Toronto's Pronto or Sydney's Opal. Don't NS use plastic cards that single, return and other tickets can be used on? Even if all we had for now was doing so on a TVM or at a ticket office, choose what we want and touch the card against a reader which would then be readable at a ticket barrier or on the train.

I don't honestly see that as being super difficult to implement. Expensive? No doubt. Worth it long-term? Absolutely. I'm not sure how a railcard would be added to such a system, but a relatively simple piece of software should surely be doable. Quite, perhaps if it stayed as-is, purchase the ticket with discount, add it to the smart card and show the railcard when requested in an app?

The end goal needs to be to make things more environmentally friendly but user-accessible. For the record, I would be very happy to pay up for £5 for my smartcard. Register it online and sync it up with my preferred TOC app, saving the card in said app for ease of loading tickets to it and job done. It would save on the concern that your phone battery's charge may run out!

My only desire with such a system would be to have individualised designs on the card itself, a bit like having a photo as a background on a smartphone. Even if such an option meant having to wait for the card to arrive in the post, it could make it slightly more desirable, what with it being more personal to the cardholder.

Anyway we're getting a bit off-topic here, but in summary, bring on the ticketing revolution!

 

[island]

Oh without a doubt, there will always be people that applies to.

Ideally, what we would have is something similar to Oyster, Dublin's Leap, Toronto's Pronto or Sydney's Opal. Don't NS use plastic cards that single, return and other tickets can be used on? Even if all we had for now was doing so on a TVM or at a ticket office, choose what we want and touch the card against a reader which would then be readable at a ticket barrier or on the train.

on NS, the reusable version of the OV-chipkaart is used for season-tickets and stored-value travel. Single and return tickets are available only on disposable cards or as e-tickets.

 

[Techniquest]

on NS, the reusable version of the OV-chipkaart is used for season-tickets and stored-value travel. Single and return tickets are available only on disposable cards or as e-tickets.

Fair enough. My memory of their system, and thanks for the refresher on what it's called as I couldn't remember for sure while typing my post earlier, tells me the stored value works a bit like Oyster. In that, say you have €20 on your reusable card, it will take the value of your journey from the value on the card. Upon tapping in it then takes an amount off but refunds any necessary amount when tapping out.

One day, I suspect we will catch up and have a similar system in place

 

[island]

Yes, that’s exactly how it works. As it can be used nationwide there’s a need to have €20 to touch in on NS (for standard adult travellers) which can be a little annoying for infrequent travellers and visitors.

 

[HST274]

Oh without a doubt, there will always be people that applies to.

Ideally, what we would have is something similar to Oyster, Dublin's Leap, Toronto's Pronto or Sydney's Opal. Don't NS use plastic cards that single, return and other tickets can be used on? Even if all we had for now was doing so on a TVM or at a ticket office, choose what we want and touch the card against a reader which would then be readable at a ticket barrier or on the train.

I don't honestly see that as being super difficult to implement. Expensive? No doubt. Worth it long-term? Absolutely. I'm not sure how a railcard would be added to such a system, but a relatively simple piece of software should surely be doable. Quite, perhaps if it stayed as-is, purchase the ticket with discount, add it to the smart card and show the railcard when requested in an app?

The end goal needs to be to make things more environmentally friendly but user-accessible. For the record, I would be very happy to pay up for £5 for my smartcard. Register it online and sync it up with my preferred TOC app, saving the card in said app for ease of loading tickets to it and job done. It would save on the concern that your phone battery's charge may run out!

My only desire with such a system would be to have individualised designs on the card itself, a bit like having a photo as a background on a smartphone. Even if such an option meant having to wait for the card to arrive in the post, it could make it slightly more desirable, what with it being more personal to the cardholder.

Anyway we're getting a bit off-topic here, but in summary, bring on the ticketing revolution!

I have to say, that sounds like an excellent idea. Whether they will implement it though...

If it happens though I will certainly be one of the first to purchase one.

 

[Snow1964]

E-tickets and M-tickets don’t really work unless you travel alone, if a family or friends buy 2, 3, 4 tickets etc then I have never encountered ticket barriers that can handle it (in sense of efficient way they handle card tickets for each person)

You have to shuffle around approaching Barrier line so the person with phone (or printout) is at front, then you have to use same gate (even if ones either side are empty). And some gates don’t seem to be able to read email barcodes

No one really wants A4 sheets of paper as a ticket either

 

[Bletchleyite]

E-tickets and M-tickets don’t really work unless you travel alone, if a family or friends buy 2, 3, 4 tickets etc then I have never encountered ticket barriers that can handle it (in sense of efficient way they handle card tickets for each person)

Eh? Buy the tickets, email them to each person.

OK, not for your 6 year old, but how many teenagers don't have smartphones and know how to use all their features better than most adults?

 

[js517]

If you are able to board a train, using a walk up fare, which is faster, buying an eticket online or buying one from a vending machine?

For me, living in Northern land, it's often quicker for me to buy a ticket online whilst stood infront of the machine and then collect it rather than try and buy the same ticket directly on the machine. I use etickets where available though and thankfully most flows are enabled for it around here.

 

[Techniquest]

Yes, that’s exactly how it works. As it can be used nationwide there’s a need to have €20 to touch in on NS (for standard adult travellers) which can be a little annoying for infrequent travellers and visitors.

Good, my memory is not entirely dodgy then! Easy to top up when the balance drops below €20 isn't it? This is all going off my memory of looking the card up, months ago, while looking up options for a cycling holiday in the Netherlands. Rather glad I hadn't booked those hotels etc after all for my time off work...

So my question has to be, why can't we get our collective rear ends together as a nation and launch something like that in the UK? I'd be more encouraged to use the railway than ever, at a time when I have started actively looking at methods of travel other than rail where possible.

We keep getting told the railway wants us back, so now is the time. Now is the time to change for the better. Now is the time to plant the seeds for a greener, more efficient, more environmentally friendly railway that actually WANTS passengers. Now is the time to invest and give us decent trains we want to travel on. We're fed up of filthy trains that look unloved, inside and out. We're fed up of bad connections. We're fed up of trains not running when it would be more suitable. Things like 2 carriage trains turning up at Manchester Piccadilly on the 1630 to Milford Haven, with huge crowds and long distance passengers having to stand for huge portions of the journey. 2 carriage trains turning up on the 1650 from Birmingham, with overfilled rubbish bins and floors covered in mess, and the average passenger is expected to be grateful a train turned up at all.

2021 has to be the year that stupidity stops. If the leisure passenger is to be truly valued, given the commuting traffic has severely decreased, then give us trains to be proud of. Give us a ticketing system that's not so out of date it belongs on a heritage line. We have had technology for better ticketing since 2003, why is it we still rely on printed tickets? Why do we have so many unloved trains, running at times that are sometimes suited for anyone but passengers?

It's time for an overhaul of the entire system. Some places, yes it works well. For example, I will happily travel on LNER again now they've got better trains (I really don't like 91s and MK4s). Yes I know they don't suit everyone, but I like the IETs. Same applies to Hull Trains, I am excited to travel with them again now it's all IETs and no more with Adelantes When they arrive on the MML, I will make my first mainline journey with EMR. Sampling the 360s is on the agenda soon, but I just don't describe them as IC stock yet.

Slowly the railway is modernising, but it needs to hurry up, as far as I'm concerned, with the rest of the country. The 196s will hopefully be a big step-up in the Midlands, compared to the now-grotty 170s! I could go on for longer, but we're already going off-topic!

So in summary:

Hurry up, invest in the railway and give us what we want. Better ticketing systems and a better railway to travel on

 

[HST274]

2 carriage trains turning up on the 1650 from Birmingham, with overfilled rubbish bins and floors covered in mess, and the average passenger is expected to be grateful a train turned up at all.

Can relate to that. The Birmingham-Hereford line is a joke when you look at the distance compared to the time it takes. Just thankful the 153s have gone (here anyway)

The 196s will hopefully be a big step-up in the Midlands

Cannot wait for them either!!! The 730s will be a huge step on the 323s too I think

On topic I would like to say I will definitely be trying e tickets soon. I have to say I am persuaded by some of the arguments put forward!!!

 

[Haywain]

Good, my memory is not entirely dodgy then! Easy to top up when the balance drops below €20 isn't it? This is all going off my memory of looking the card up, months ago, while looking up options for a cycling holiday in the Netherlands. Rather glad I hadn't booked those hotels etc after all for my time off work...

So my question has to be, why can't we get our collective rear ends together as a nation and launch something like that in the UK? I'd be more encouraged to use the railway than ever, at a time when I have started actively looking at methods of travel other than rail where possible.

We keep getting told the railway wants us back, so now is the time. Now is the time to change for the better. Now is the time to plant the seeds for a greener, more efficient, more environmentally friendly railway that actually WANTS passengers. Now is the time to invest and give us decent trains we want to travel on. We're fed up of filthy trains that look unloved, inside and out. We're fed up of bad connections. We're fed up of trains not running when it would be more suitable. Things like 2 carriage trains turning up at Manchester Piccadilly on the 1630 to Milford Haven, with huge crowds and long distance passengers having to stand for huge portions of the journey. 2 carriage trains turning up on the 1650 from Birmingham, with overfilled rubbish bins and floors covered in mess, and the average passenger is expected to be grateful a train turned up at all.

2021 has to be the year that stupidity stops. If the leisure passenger is to be truly valued, given the commuting traffic has severely decreased, then give us trains to be proud of. Give us a ticketing system that's not so out of date it belongs on a heritage line. We have had technology for better ticketing since 2003, why is it we still rely on printed tickets? Why do we have so many unloved trains, running at times that are sometimes suited for anyone but passengers?

It's time for an overhaul of the entire system. Some places, yes it works well. For example, I will happily travel on LNER again now they've got better trains (I really don't like 91s and MK4s). Yes I know they don't suit everyone, but I like the IETs. Same applies to Hull Trains, I am excited to travel with them again now it's all IETs and no more with Adelantes When they arrive on the MML, I will make my first mainline journey with EMR. Sampling the 360s is on the agenda soon, but I just don't describe them as IC stock yet.

Slowly the railway is modernising, but it needs to hurry up, as far as I'm concerned, with the rest of the country. The 196s will hopefully be a big step-up in the Midlands, compared to the now-grotty 170s! I could go on for longer, but we're already going off-topic!

So in summary:

Hurry up, invest in the railway and give us what we want. Better ticketing systems and a better railway to travel on

Yes, but about eTickets...

 

[infobleep]

For me, living in Northern land, it's often quicker for me to buy a ticket online whilst stood infront of the machine and then collect it rather than try and buy the same ticket directly on the machine. I use etickets where available though and thankfully most flows are enabled for it around here.

The only journey planner booking machines I've used have been the Great Western Railway ones. No idea how they compare and I've used them rather infrequently.

The thing which slows me down to spotting the right off-peak return type I am after and ensuring it's the right one.

 

[HST274]

I have just got my first ever e tickets and one immediate benefit I can see is even if printed, seat reservations etc. are all on the same ticket (sometimes they have a separate one) plus no receipt necessary to print. Sadly no barriers to go through so won't be able to try that out. Also one question, if it says optional reservations does that mean you can travel on any other service within available times? (Super off peak)

 

[island]

I have just got my first ever e tickets and one immediate benefit I can see is even if printed, seat reservations etc. are all on the same ticket (sometimes they have a separate one) plus no receipt necessary to print. Sadly no barriers to go through so won't be able to try that out. Also one question, if it says optional reservations does that mean you can travel on any other service within available times? (Super off peak)

Yes, optional reservation means exactly that.

 

[Techniquest]

I have just got my first ever e tickets and one immediate benefit I can see is even if printed, seat reservations etc. are all on the same ticket (sometimes they have a separate one) plus no receipt necessary to print. Sadly no barriers to go through so won't be able to try that out. Also one question, if it says optional reservations does that mean you can travel on any other service within available times? (Super off peak)

Welcome to the e-ticket fan club!

As has been said, optional reservations do not need to be stuck to. Only the times of validity, as would be the case on a paper ticket

 

[HST274]

Thank you both!

Also I have added a poll, to see what the general consensus is.

 

[infobleep]

Thank you both!

Also I have added a poll, to see what the general consensus is.

For me, it depends on shat in doing. E-tickets are great for advanced purchase.

For sudden purchase paper tickets are fine.

For London Oyster is great. The reason Smartcard isn't great outside London is that I can't buy enough tickets for it from a TMV and the app isn't as robust enough to allow me to add via points.

This is SWR Touch.

 

[trei2k]

ScotRail highlighted in a recent survey that they were launching barcode tickets and asked whether I preferred the name "barcode ticket" or "mTicket".

Unfortunately, it was a basic survey with no section for extra comments. I really hope they are not going down the mTicket route.

 

[Wallsendmag]

ScotRail highlighted in a recent survey that they were launching barcode tickets and asked whether I preferred the name "barcode ticket" or "mTicket".

Unfortunately, it was a basic survey with no section for extra comments. I really hope they are not going down the mTicket route.

I'll be grateful for anything barcoded, ScotRail are really holding up our smartticket expansion

 

[py_megapixel]

Unfortunately, it was a basic survey with no section for extra comments. I really hope they are not going down the mTicket route.

I thought the mTicket format was dead, and the whole industry was supposed to be transitioning away from it?

Frankly if I have an option between the bus, and the train with a ticket which can only be used in a specific locked-down app (i.e. no other ticketing formats available), then I'm choosing the bus.

 

[alistairlees]

ScotRail highlighted in a recent survey that they were launching barcode tickets and asked whether I preferred the name "barcode ticket" or "mTicket".

Unfortunately, it was a basic survey with no section for extra comments. I really hope they are not going down the mTicket route.

When we first established them we called them eTicket to distinguish them from m-ticket (already in existence, and locked to apps, and with low take up by customers consequently). Obviously barcode ticket would not have distinguished the two.

All TOCs should be calling them eTickets, and distributing them in the same way (ie either as attachments or via a download link; but not requiring an app or only being linked to an app).

This consistency would simplify cross industry communications, improve customer confidence, and reduce after sales / support costs. It would also improve on train / at gate line experiences.

Train operators have not managed to do this though. Instead they have created needless complexity, cost and confusion

The result? Another reason to create GBR.

 

[HST274]

When we first established them we called them eTicket to distinguish them from m-ticket (already in existence, and locked to apps, and with low take up by customers consequently). Obviously barcode ticket would not have distinguished the two.

All TOCs should be calling them eTickets, and distributing them in the same way (ie either as attachments or via a download link; but not requiring an app or only being linked to an app).

This consistency would simplify cross industry communications, improve customer confidence, and reduce after sales / support costs. It would also improve on train / at gate line experiences.

Train operators have not managed to do this though. Instead they have created needless complexity, cost and confusion

The result? Another reason to create GBR.

Yes it is very confusing for new travellers when it says on the GWR app you need the app. Could cause an unnecessary panic if it won't work (which seems to happen a lot). Though at least they say print them off

 

[yorkie]

Thank you both!

Also I have added a poll, to see what the general consensus is.

I suspect it will change over time; most of those voting against e-tickets have probably not really used actual e-tickets

 

[alistairlees]

I suspect it will change over time; most of those voting against e-tickets have probably not really used actual e-tickets

Probably need to add Edmondson as an option too.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Probably need to add Edmondson as an option too.

Still seems to be an option on many heritage railway lines! Back to the future, eh?

 

[Haywain]

Probably need to add Edmondson as an option too.

Personally, I really liked NCR tickets.

 

[alistairlees]

Personally, I really liked NCR tickets.

Are they the red and white vertical card pre printed ones from the early 1980s? The fare was printed in ink on them. There were blank versions too of course.

 

[Haywain]

Are they the red and white vertical card pre printed ones from the early 1980s? The fare was printed in ink on them. There were blank versions too of course.

That’s the ones.

 

[miklcct]

I would expect a 'perfect' booking app would allow you to open the app, stick in your journey details (and allow you to save common ones as 'favourites') then simply pay via Apple / Google pay and deliver a copy of your ticket not only to your email address but also the digital 'wallet' on your phone (on Apple at least this can then also even be linked up to my Apple Watch so I literally have the Aztec code on my wrist if desired!) - all could be done in under a minute

Of course things are sadly not perfect in the real world, such as the Northern app insisting I select a specific service for my outward and return journeys when all I want is a simple day return ticket...I now just literally tap the first outward journey and the first return journey times that come up (I suppose you then get into the argument of how to make sure passengers correctly purchase either a anytime day return or off peak day return)

I think Trainsplit does so.

Under all circumstances I prefer using e-ticket because:
1. I can buy it on my phone when running to the train station catching a train departing 3 minutes later.
2. I can replace it on another device in case my phone is lost.

 

[317 forever]

As I don't have a smart phone I am keeping to paper tickets. If I could be certain I could just print off an e-ticket I would consider it.