The point surely is that 40 odd years have elapsed since 7027 was dragged out the scrapyard and into a place where work could be done - but hasn't. An alternate future has been found for 7027 whereupon there has been opposition to it.
I think the point is that you can’t just go to Woolworths and buy another genuine Castle. By destroying 7027 another genuine loco is lost. Surely it would be cheaper in the long run to build a 47xx from scratch rather than bastardise parts from another loco?
There has been work done to 7027 though, originally at Tyseley, work was then suspended in favour of 5080, Mr Waterman did a little bit, (new tender tank comes to mind) it really isn’t the no hoper that certain people (and members of the press) want to paint the picture of being a Barry Wreck.
Well that is fine then. I admire your confidence in 7027 returning to steam in it's own right.. Maybe the "Night Owl" project have to reassess their project and have their bits manufactured from other sources, but I ask the question - how many steamable Castles can be supported in preservation. Obviously Jeremy Hosking's 5029 at Crewe, 5043 and 7029 at Tyseley and 4079 and 5080 at Didcot. Can any revenue be attracted to restore another active Castle. albeit not on Network Rail, as I understand Didcot's won't be anymore. As I have stated 7027 has not been signifcantly restored for over 40 years
Just a minor correction, Didcot’s two Castles are 4079 and 5051, 5080 is a Tyseley engine.
There are many people on the GCR who would dispute that last sentence,as posts and pictures earlier in this thread (posts #85 - #92) clearly show.
Indeed Phil, that is the point I’m making, bits and pieces have been done to 7027 over the years, certainly recently at Loughborough work has been done that I’d class as significant.
I may be totally wrong, but the announcement by the GCR (see the separate topic) doesn't mention that the railway has bought the loco, just that an agreement has been reached that it will stay there for the foreseeable future. I guess that Flying Phil will be able to confirm or deny this?
92214 has been purchased by the David Clarke Railway Trust with the help of an anonymous donor. DCRT is the main supporting charity of the GCR.
If they were or weren’t, I’d imagine the 9F would always have been a far more tempting ownership proposition for the the GCR/DCRT than the Castle.
Ah, I didn't know those details, so thanks.
As others have said not strictly true. Johnathan Pratt Jones did a lot as was shown on BBC Points West, I don't exactly understand why he sold it but I know he did on the basis work would continue. If the owner had not sadly passed away we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Really don't know, but I would have thought that if 7027 was so important to JJP he would not have sold it. Relying on trust doesn't always work out in our lives.
I think he sold it to focus on 4936?
I do not believe that Mr Gregory (Who paid for the locomotive from Mr Pratt) has passed away. He, or his family trust, have had a review and then sold it to the 47xx/GWS ish group. Who have "paused" the purchase or some such.
I'm sure I saw that on a statement released but doesn't appear to be the case. https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2022/0...ornbury-castle-return-to-steam-after-all.html Very naughty! If it was sold in good faith then that's a breach of contract surely? I believe 4709 group own it and have given a 6 months timescale for sale or they will break her up.
, but a good read none the less of Defiant's restoration.
www.railadvent.co.uk
A deal requires another interested party to come forward with funding. The six month window runs until April. The 4709 group is based at Tyseley so in the absence of any deal it's logical that 7027 could be back at Tyseley later this year.
www.railadvent.co.uk
Amazing how much argument this has generated. The boiler is only one, admittedly large, component being used, and the 47xx class was used on heavy long-distance summer passenger services, so a modern example could be an interesting and very capable mainline loco if able to be certified. With the castle boiler reducing weight a little, the loco could have greater route availability than the originals' rather limited range of operations, notwithstanding that traditional routes generally have had axle load capability increased. It's important to ensure now that frames and all other surviving components from 7027 are properly safeguarded so something positive can be achieved with them in the future if and when money becomes available.
Agree completely. I am totally unsentimental about any particular bag of frames, cylinders, rods, wheels, nuts and bolts that forms the current embodiment of a locomotive. To me, it's the design that's important, so a recreation, especially if some invisible improvements can be incorporated in design, materials etc without spoiling the appearance is as good if not better than the original. That's the spirit of engineering in my eyes. For mainline running especially, engineering expediency always beats conservation of materials. I fully accept that others may feel differently.
I tend to agree to the most part. L
comotives and traction have evolved over time and that has to be a good thing. much as I absolutely love the big 1 Co Co 1 diesels and they are my favourite diesel locos, designs advanced and a class 60 could easily handle twice of more the size of a "peak". So the Ivatt recreation, whilst having an authentic power unit and sounding something like, will actually be a much more modern and efficient locomotive under the skin. The Ivatt originals had a vacuum brakes under the loco which would be much more cumbersome to drive than a loco with a straight air brake. I have a serious problem with the logic of your last sentence. Heritage rail, by definition to me, should be about the appreciation of heritage not about a pistache using modern technology.I tend to agree to the most part. L
Obviously this wouldn't apply with the "Night owl" project because AIUI it is being built to original spec drawings, just maybe a different boiler if the 7027's is to be used.
We only need to look at 71000 to see how advancement in technology helps in modern day heritage rail.
On a visit to the GCR last September, I also saw the boiler from 7027 stored on a wagon. IIRC it was in a siding at Rothley, so if recently moved to Quorn it looks like departure (by road) to it’s new owner is in hand.
