Passenger behaviour question

[bramling]

Something which I see on a daily basis, which I don't understand the rationale behind;

Why do some passengers stand at a random place on the platform, then when the train enters the platform either;

1) Start running down the platform to travel in the front car.

Or

2) Board and then immediately start walking through to a different car.

To clarify, we're talking about lightly loaded trains so no issue over seat availability, trains where all the accommodation is identical, and this is not a case of positioning to be nearer the exit at destination.

Why do people do this?

The first of the scenarious is a nuisance as the last thing we want is someone running down the platform just as the train is arriving, and often knocking or pushing others standing on the platform.

I just don't understand why people do this, if you want to travel in a particular place on the train, why not stand in the right place first?

 

[razourlight962]

It's simple, if you're at the front of the train, you get to the station a few seconds faster than everyone else!

 

[miami]

Many people don't know where the front of the train will be. Can save a couple of minutes at the end of the line on exit, but you don't want to be 60m in front of where the train eventually stops.

People with reserved seats like to sit in the seat that's reserved, and have no idea where that coach will be, so hedge their bets until they see a number go past.

 

[bramling]

Many people don't know where the front of the train will be. Can save a couple of minutes at the end of the line on exit, but you don't want to be 60m in front of where the train eventually stops.

People with reserved seats like to sit in the seat that's reserved, and have no idea where that coach will be, so hedge their bets until they see a number go past.

This is not a case of either of these, I'm thinking of unreservable trains, and definitely not a case of people positioning themselves nearer their exit. For example, saw it at Finsbury Park this morning. 2x365, train virtually empty. As train enters platform, man starts sprinting alongside train to be in front car. His destination was Hatfield, so totally at the wrong end of the platform.

Those that know what they're doing to know which car their exit station is nearest to generally seem to know where to wait at the origin too.

 

[SS4]

It's simple, if you're at the front of the train, you get to the station a few seconds faster than everyone else!

That time saving can escalate into a good couple of minutes in terms of exiting the station or, in the case of London, entering the tube system for much the same reason why an express loses time when stuck behind a stopper.

Whether that's worth it or not is up to you but generally I will always sit at the front of a train unless it's rammed or the station entrance is at the front although at Moor St and Marylebone it helps that the front is furthest away from the entrance for departure

 

[me123]

In contrast, I tend to go to the rear of the train. In my experience, whilst the front gets you out quicker, it's generally considerably busier. So by going to the front of the train, I've got less chance of getting a seat and it takes much longer to get off, being much busier. So much so that any time saving is markedly reduced. I've known myself to have walked the length of the 6 car train whilst people are still getting off the front carriage.

 

[Abpj17]

It's very common on the TL lines - for passengers to be standing nowhere near where the train stops. The shortest formations are 4 cars but the platforms can hold 12 so lots of empty platform space.

I'll sometimes walk through carriages. Another TL quirk of have different types of train/carriage layouts - so walking through to the loo, or to a carriage on tables / declassified first class section. E.g. on some trains only the 1/4/5/8 carrianges have tables. The 'right' carriage is the 3rd...but I'll walk through to the next to get a table instead.

 

[StateOfPlay]

This is not a case of either of these, I'm thinking of unreservable trains, and definitely not a case of people positioning themselves nearer their exit. For example, saw it at Finsbury Park this morning. 2x365, train virtually empty. As train enters platform, man starts sprinting alongside train to be in front car. His destination was Hatfield, so totally at the wrong end of the platform.

Those that know what they're doing to know which car their exit station is nearest to generally seem to know where to wait at the origin too.

So at Finsbury Park as in most stations if you don't know how long the train will be in terms of carriages, you don't know where to stand. I have seen people standing right at the end of the platform at FP and then have to run back to the front carriage. I have also seen this at KGX, when the train was only 4 carriages instead of 8. The platform was announced and as per KGX on a Friday afternoon, dozens of people sped down the platform to get to the front before the train had arrived. As it pulled in the announcement went out that it was short formed and only 4 carriages and then you had a rush of people down the platform.

So I suspect people are waiting to see how many carriages te train is and where it is going to stop before running to the front.

 

[Taunton]

It's very common on the TL lines - for passengers to be standing nowhere near where the train stops. The shortest formations are 4 cars but the platforms can hold 12 so lots of empty platform space.

You can see people miss southbound trains at Farringdon because of this. The steps to the westbound Circle Line platform come to the north end of the 12-car platform, whereas all trains stop at the south end, so if 4-car and the passenger is elderly the train can have closed doors by the time they get there - in fact some must think it's a non-stop as it passes them.

 

[bramling]

So at Finsbury Park as in most stations if you don't know how long the train will be in terms of carriages, you don't know where to stand. I have seen people standing right at the end of the platform at FP and then have to run back to the front carriage. I have also seen this at KGX, when the train was only 4 carriages instead of 8. The platform was announced and as per KGX on a Friday afternoon, dozens of people sped down the platform to get to the front before the train had arrived. As it pulled in the announcement went out that it was short formed and only 4 carriages and then you had a rush of people down the platform.

So I suspect people are waiting to see how many carriages te train is and where it is going to stop before running to the front.

That all makes sense,however it still doesn't explain why the front car suddenly becomes so appealing. I can understand if it happens to be nearest to the exit at destination, but my observation is this isn't the reason, in the cases I'm seeing it's actually putting them further away from the platform exit where they get off. And it happens on LU too where all trains are fixed length.

Just don't see what's so special about running to the front, risking slipping or tripping on a potentially wet or slippery platform, just to end up in a carriage that's identical to all the others. In fact, on a class 365 the end cars could be seen as the less desirable as you get motor noise and a slightly rougher ride.

Perhaps I'm looking for a logic that doesn't exist!

 

[Carntyne]

I usually do it as the front coach is the most empty on my line. I prefer some peace and quiet before booking on.

 

[MrPIC]

It always confused me as the departue boards say "this train is formed of 4 coaches", and you'd think people would think, hmmm 4 coaches, maybe it will stop at the "4 CAR STOP" board! But I'm looking at it from a railway perspective, most people aren't paying that much attention to put two and two together

 

[CarltonA]

The same thing happens on parts of the London Underground where the trains are always the same length and always take up the full platform. :roll:

 

[edwin_m]

Perhaps people just see the coach that stops next to them is rather full and decide to check out the next one... and the one after that?

 

[321446]

To be fair when I'm travelling on an unfamiliar line/TOC I get just as caught out. But I do wonder on a daily basis at the scowls I get pulling up in a 4 car from people standing at the 8/12 board.

Now I know that late comers will just get on where they can at for example at Liv Street if train is about to leave. But I do puzzle at the 12 car passing me at the throat of the station with a 4 car of all seated, no standing, middle 4 half seated only but with the last 4 vestibules with standing to the last 4 they're sitting on the roof!!

 

[hassaanhc]

Another part of the train is less busy?
Want to use a coach with certain facilities (or lack of them)?
Another coach has a better interior layout?

I still find myself overestimating the length of a coach, ending up next to one I don't want to sit in. I usually do this on EMUs to avoid trailer coaches, compressors, or transformers. Especially on certain classes where the only motor coach is an intermediate vehicle and varies depending on which way round the train is.

 

[paulfoel]

I find people who are just getting to the platform will run to dive onto the train at the back (i.e. closest door) because, even though the train is not due to leave for 5 mins they think its going to go without them....

 

[Taunton]

To be fair when I'm travelling on an unfamiliar line/TOC I get just as caught out. But I do wonder on a daily basis at the scowls I get pulling up in a 4 car from people standing at the 8/12 board.

Systems overseas actually have notice boards of various types to inform passengers about short trains on long platforms, but for some reason in Britain we have only put boards up for driver stopping positions, not for passengers. There is some attempt on main line services at intermediate points to identify which end has first class, but PA announcements in railspeak about "train running in reverse formation" can leave 99% of the passengers cold,

 

[ComUtoR]

but PA announcements in railspeak about "train running in reverse formation" can leave 99% of the passengers cold,

Some believe that using generic terms is a form of lying to the passenger.

 

[StateOfPlay]

I was sat at Hitchin station heading north and the train heading south had stopped but an announcement was made saying that although the train had stopped it was not due to stop at this station and passengers would not be able to get on. I looked across at the train and saw that the carriages were so full people were standing, even in 1st class!

As the train pulled away, the back 5 carriages were empty. Unreal!

 

[edwin_m]

Systems overseas actually have notice boards of various types to inform passengers about short trains on long platforms, but for some reason in Britain we have only put boards up for driver stopping positions, not for passengers.

There are notices at City Thameslink advising passengers to move down the platform as trains stop towards the departure end in each direction. With an entrance at each end of the platform, at least that's fair!

 

[snail]

Systems overseas actually have notice boards of various types to inform passengers about short trains on long platforms, but for some reason in Britain we have only put boards up for driver stopping positions, not for passengers.

Virgin West Coast have numbers painted on the platforms to show where pendolinos will stop. These zones are displayed on boards and on the PIDs. Despite all this, people still wait in the middle of the platform for Coach A/B or between two markers and don't move until the train stops.

 

[johntea]

In Yorkshire you often find people doing this to try and dodge a ticket inspection for shorter journeys...therefore always a bonus when the guard decides mix it up and starts their ticket check from the front of the train rather than the rear

 

[jaigee]

One thing I can never understand is when the platform display states for instance "First Class towards the front/rear" and then the announcer repeats this, no one moves. Yet as soon as the train comes in there is a mad dash up the platform!

 

[jon0844]

That all makes sense,however it still doesn't explain why the front car suddenly becomes so appealing. I can understand if it happens to be nearest to the exit at destination, but my observation is this isn't the reason, in the cases I'm seeing it's actually putting them further away from the platform exit where they get off. And it happens on LU too where all trains are fixed length.

Just don't see what's so special about running to the front, risking slipping or tripping on a potentially wet or slippery platform, just to end up in a carriage that's identical to all the others. In fact, on a class 365 the end cars could be seen as the less desirable as you get motor noise and a slightly rougher ride.

Perhaps I'm looking for a logic that doesn't exist!

I do it to get a choice of seats, and then walk back down to get off at Hatfield (sometimes). If it's 2x365 then I have been known to change set at Potters Bar.

Now trains stop further along at FPK, and people haven't yet noticed, getting on at the front of a 4 car is now likely to see you having nobody board, which is nice. Won't last once people work it out!

If you get in the rear carriage at King's Cross, it will be uncomfortably busy - especially in the last few seconds where people run to board and jump on the first set of doors. Even for just 25 minutes or so, why be in such an environment to get off at Hatfield a bit quicker, instead of having a relatively lightly loaded (or empty) carriage?

 

[kingston_toon]

I find people who are just getting to the platform will run to dive onto the train at the back (i.e. closest door) because, even though the train is not due to leave for 5 mins they think its going to go without them....

We left Blackpool North on a 3 car TPE 185 earlier this year, and walking onto the platform 5 minutes before departure, the rear carriage was full and standing. We got an empty table in the front carriage.

 

[Skoodle]

Even better when the entrance to the platform is directly next to the first set of doors, they can see the screen and see it's about to depart and will walk along the platform, on a train with open gangways. That's fine, I'll just assume you're not taking this train and close the doors.

 

[me123]

If you get in the rear carriage at King's Cross, it will be uncomfortably busy - especially in the last few seconds where people run to board and jump on the first set of doors. Even for just 25 minutes or so, why be in such an environment to get off at Hatfield a bit quicker, instead of having a relatively lightly loaded (or empty) carriage?

I do wonder if it would be an idea at terminal stations to lock the doors in the rear portions at first, forcing people to walk up the 6/8/12 carriages of the train. As the train gets busier, you gradually open the doors towards the rear. Those who arrive in plenty of time have the time to walk to the front of the train. Those who arrive later will find it easier to get into the rear carriages. More people will get a seat, and passengers will be more evenly spread throughout the train. If more people can get in the rear carriage at the last minute, you'll probably also reduce delays.

It'll annoy people who want to leave the train at the rear (for example, at Hatfield), but more people would get a seat. Also, it would require SDO and probably additional staff to work it, so the costs probably outweigh the benefits.

A more simple idea might be moving walkways (make them 6 carriages long at KGX, for example), which might encourage people to go to the front of the train.

 

[EssexGonzo]

There's another reason I've spotted for this behaviour......drivers don't always stop at the 4/8/12 car stop signs. At my station, peak trains are 12, most others are 4 cars. Most people will stand in the right place for a 4 car service but if it overshoots the stop board then there is a dash down the platform where people avoid trying to all crush into the back of the train.

 

[razourlight962]

That time saving can escalate into a good couple of minutes in terms of exiting the station or, in the case of London, entering the tube system for much the same reason why an express loses time when stuck behind a stopper.

Whether that's worth it or not is up to you but generally I will always sit at the front of a train unless it's rammed or the station entrance is at the front although at Moor St and Marylebone it helps that the front is furthest away from the entrance for departure

I was making a joke at how if you're at the front, you will arrive faster because the front of the train reaches the station slightly before the rest.