Passengers denied boarding at Blackpool North?

[Watershed]

Is first class available on any of the Northern fleet that now normally run in service?

No, although I think there was a suggestion at one stage that some Northern Connect services would have it. Clearly nothing has come of that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is first class available on any of the Northern fleet that now normally run in service?

No, Northern do not have any First Class. The 2+1 seats are there on 769s at the vehicle end but are declassified.

 

[Scotrail314209]

No, Northern do not have any First Class. The 2+1 seats are there on 769s at the vehicle end but are declassified.

Bear in mind some of the 170s also have 2+1 at certain ends from the old first class section.

Northern could make that First Class if they want to.

How do the staff at BPN react to the Avanti service as they usually board early, that means they have to leave one of their doors open.

 

[Neptune]

Bear in mind some of the 170s also have 2+1 at certain ends from the old first class section.

Northern could make that First Class if they want to.

How do the staff at BPN react to the Avanti service as they usually board early, that means they have to leave one of their doors open.

It’s only 6 170’s (453 - 458) out of 16 so would cause problems if it was to be advertised and the odds are stacked that one of the 10 SC only units turned up.

No need for FC on the routes they operate.

 

[AlterEgo]

Is first class available on any of the Northern fleet that now normally run in service?

No, Northern have no first class services at all.

 

[slipdigby]

There are already coaches between lots of places and Blackpool including a reasonably frequent service to Manchester. Relevantly, the coach station is on (part of) the Blackpool Central site, and the toilets for it used to be (but aren't any more) the old station ones.

Not been a regular coach to Manchester for many a year

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not been a regular coach to Manchester for many a year

The NatEx website begs to differ.

There was a Stagecoach Express years ago which is no longer around, of course.

 

[slipdigby]

The NatEx website begs to differ.

There was a Stagecoach Express years ago which is no longer around, of course.

I wouldn't personally consider 5 coaches a day "regular" (although I've no idea what the service was like pre-Covid). Certainly not in comparison to the 30-odd direct rail services each weekday.

 

[permarquis]

What a brilliant post! Well composed, with a great balance between perceived truth, reality and humour. If there was such a thing, I'd award you "Post of the Day".

Thank you! There's definitely something inherently funny about the everyday farce of it all, bewildering though it is.

Has it ever been confirmed for definite why they do things the way they do? I know various possibilities have been discussed, but none of them really make reliable sense, unless I'm missing something. In the example I gave, I was one of approximately six passengers in the entire station at the time, and they still guarded the doors with military imprecision.

If crowding is their concern, surely the answer is to keep all of the doors open to allow constant flows, not force everyone through one set? Alternatively, if the argument is that railway platforms are inherently deadly, someone should probably inform the thousands of stations which haven't got round to reading that memo.

I can't see the upside for anyone! Clearly it's a poor experience for passengers using the station, particularly given the pathological refusal to acknowledge that this system is (relatively) unique on the network. There's absolutely no signage to explain, and you can't intuit it either, short of keeping a dream journal or interpreting the phases of the moon in the hope that produces some insight.

But beyond passengers (given they don't appear to be the priority here) I can't even see the upside for the staff. They seem to spend the vast majority of their day grumpily locking and unlocking doors for customers who don't understand why they're even doing it. Surely after the 738th time you've had to shout at a customer for attempting to get their train you'd wonder whether a better system might be possible for everyone?

 

[TUC]

I wouldn't personally consider 5 coaches a day "regular" (although I've no idea what the service was like pre-Covid). Certainly not in comparison to the 30-odd direct rail services each weekday.

5 a day is pretty typical for many coach services isn't it?

 

[Deafdoggie]

5 a day is pretty typical for many coach services isn't it?

It's very good for a lot of services!
Most passengers will just need good daytrip or week holiday times when travelling to Blackpool anyway.

 

[muz379]

Separating out the issues

Keeping passengers back from trains until staff let them board - As long as the staff managing this operation are on the ball and courteous then this shouldn't really be a problem especially when there is an inside area to wait Vs the largely uncovered platforms. Some of the trains at Blackpool as everywhere else have short turnaround times take York for example they arrive at XX:07 and depart again at XX:21 . On arrival with a short turnaround like that it's likely the platform would have majority of the passengers for departure waiting . Makes more sense to keep passengers from boarding straight away so cleaners can get on and do their thing. Last time I was there Blackpool also had mobile CET equipment again not something you want to be navigating round passengers and their luggage . Another missed opportunity at Blackpool is the possibility of boarding passengers requiring assistance first especially those in wheelchairs , getting them on the train before people have chance to fill the wheelchair space with luggage , buggies or bikes .

Staff attitude - It seems that Blackpool is notorious for staff attitude , if that is the case and interrogation the complaints data points to a culture among staff then this should be acted upon by the TOC .

If staffs inattentiveness is causing people to miss trains because they aren't opening the doors or opening them in good time again this needs addressing . Because as I said above the method of operating can make sense for short turnarounds as long as the staff involved are attentive and mindful of time .

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Staff attitude - It seems that Blackpool is notorious for staff attitude , if that is the case and interrogation the complaints data points to a culture among staff then this should be acted upon by the TOC .

Has the matter of the recent change of status at Northern ever had the above matter on their agenda as something to address?

 

[IBLRG]

It is well-publicised on the social media channels that there is, and has been for many years and ongoing problem at Blackpool North.

One mustn't tarnish everybody with the same brush, but there is obviously a problem with the workings of the station, and heaven forbid trying to take a picture of a train on the platform.

 

[Fleetwoodflyer]

It is well-publicised on the social media channels that there is, and has been for many years and ongoing problem at Blackpool North.

One mustn't tarnish everybody with the same brush, but there is obviously a problem with the workings of the station, and heaven forbid trying to take a picture of a train on the platform.

There are several very helpful staff on the barriers at Blackpool North but at busy times some of them do get annoyed by the harassment dished out by those who don’t want to show their tickets on arrival. I have been actively encouraged by one staff member, who I hadn’t previously met, to go onto the platform without a ticket to photograph 37407 on one of its visits. One particular individual always greets me, often with a handshake, whenever I travel.

 

[jonesy3001]

The NatEx website begs to differ.

There was a Stagecoach Express years ago which is no longer around, of course.

The X61 which went from manchester chorlton street coach station to blackpool via the motorway and preston, stopped after the manchester to blackpool line was electrified.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The X61 which went from manchester chorlton street coach station to blackpool via the motorway and preston, stopped after the manchester to blackpool line was electrified.

I remember a thread about "hopeful" similar Manchester to Blackpool service coach provision on the Buses and Coaches forum on this website with the thread title of "Classic Bus Nortb West...Red Rocket Express" if anyone remembers it. The thread ran from 24th September 2013 to 18th December 2017 with 251 postings made, before it was locked.

 

[yorkie]

Just a gentle reminder to please stick to the thread title.

Of anyone wishes to discuss anything else, such as coach services, please create a new thread (if there isn't one already) in the appropriate forum section.

Thanks

 

[davidknibb]

References have been made to a 'Mafia' at Blackpool North staffing. But of course the real mafia were criminal gangs getting obscenely rich by their activities. Surely no staff at the station gets rich by their activities. But the person or people who should deal with the problems are the 'management'. Is there a station manager ? If so then he/she should surely step in and sort the problems. That's one of the things that the s/m is paid for. If there isn't a s/m - then the senior local managers of the TOC need to step in and sort it - quickly. It's easy to blame platform staff - but it seems as if they are not being properly managed at all. If the platform staff just get their cues from other - maybe disgruntled staff - then the result isn't too difficult to predict. Management is about leadership - and it seems to me from what has been written that it is leadership that is in short supply. I'm pretty sure that one or two good managers - who understand and are sympathetic to the issues of the 'ordinary' staff could resolve the problems tomorrow. And although I'm retired and have never worked on the railways - I'd love to try to sort it.
It's not rocket science.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Is there a station manager ? If so then he/she should surely step in and sort the problems.

Some guy called Mick Elliott, isn't it? If that is still the case, believe he's been in post since at least 2017.

Name checked here...

Northern’s new train set to light up Blackpool

*Customers invited to experience state-of-the-art trains*

media.northernrailway.co.uk

Mick Elliott, Northern’s station manager at Blackpool North, said: “I’m thrilled that new trains will soon be operating on three major routes to and from Blackpool North.

 

[furnessvale]

Some guy called Mick Elliott, isn't it? If that is still the case, believe he's been in post since at least 2017.

Name checked here...

Northern’s new train set to light up Blackpool

*Customers invited to experience state-of-the-art trains*

media.northernrailway.co.uk

The problem certainly existed when I was in the area and I moved away in 1985!

 

[davidknibb]

In which case Mr Mick Elliott needs to use all his charismatic leadership qualities and get the problem sorted - tomorrow. Otherwise give the job to me - i'll do it for a month or two free of charge

 

[LowLevel]

In which case Mr Mick Elliott needs to use all his charismatic leadership qualities and get the problem sorted - tomorrow. Otherwise give the job to me - i'll do it for a month or two free of charge

Best of luck - I've seen plenty of people roll into management jobs in various industries all guns blazing to sort out workplaces with perceived cultural problems. I think all bar one or two have been almost entirely 100% unsuccessful and the remainder far from 100% successful.

If it's been like it for decades then you'll never sort it in a month or two.

 

[bramling]

It is well-publicised on the social media channels that there is, and has been for many years and ongoing problem at Blackpool North.

One mustn't tarnish everybody with the same brush, but there is obviously a problem with the workings of the station, and heaven forbid trying to take a picture of a train on the platform.

Some of the problem is that staff expect users of the station to know about how they work, which given than they are one of only a couple of stations who operate this way means unfamiliar users will be setting themselves up for difficulties simply by attempting to use the station in the way they would any other.

Best of luck - I've seen plenty of people roll into management jobs in various industries all guns blazing to sort out workplaces with perceived cultural problems. I think all bar one or two have been almost entirely 100% unsuccessful and the remainder far from 100% successful.

If it's been like it for decades then you'll never sort it in a month or two.

It’s unfortunate things couldn’t be improved when the station was remodelled for electrification.

Removing the doors would help, though the ideal layout would have been platforms on both sides of each track, to separate arriving and departing flows.

There’s also a poor culture there. A few years ago we got permission to spend some time on the platforms, yet despite this we experienced issues - including being yelled at by an absolute pig of a cleaner (and I make no apology for using that analogy - the way we were yelled at was simply disgusting), and also more bizarrely by someone from the road outside, not sure if that was staff or not. The fact that staff there feel empowered to carry on in this way is a clear sign of issues. As you say, not always a quick fix though.

 

[Greybeard33]

Keeping passengers back from trains until staff let them board - As long as the staff managing this operation are on the ball and courteous then this shouldn't really be a problem especially when there is an inside area to wait Vs the largely uncovered platforms. Some of the trains at Blackpool as everywhere else have short turnaround times take York for example they arrive at XX:07 and depart again at XX:21 . On arrival with a short turnaround like that it's likely the platform would have majority of the passengers for departure waiting . Makes more sense to keep passengers from boarding straight away so cleaners can get on and do their thing. Last time I was there Blackpool also had mobile CET equipment again not something you want to be navigating round passengers and their luggage . Another missed opportunity at Blackpool is the possibility of boarding passengers requiring assistance first especially those in wheelchairs , getting them on the train before people have chance to fill the wheelchair space with luggage , buggies or bikes .

All those issues would seem to apply equally to Manchester Airport station, which is a busier terminal, yet it manages just fine with open platforms.

 

[muz379]

All those issues would seem to apply equally to Manchester Airport station, which is a busier terminal, yet it manages just fine with open platforms.

I don't think that's a meaningful comparison . The operation at the airport is somewhat difference and I wonder what proportion of passengers are just going to picadilly so jump on the first available service the longest wait for which in the day should be about 18 minutes .

The long distance TPE services at the airport mostly seem to have a half hour turnaround and in my experience are mostly locked on arrival to allow cleaners to do their thing . Half an hour turnaround means that nowhere near the same amount of passengers will be waiting round for the return working .

Terminating northern services have some short turnarounds but aren't cleaned or even litter picked at the airport . The short turnarounds mean they generally arrive to a platform full of passengers for their return trip .

Besides just because it looks to "work" somewhere else doesn't mean that the opportunity to do things differently at other station shouldn't be taken.

 

[Parham Wood]

What I do not get about this thread is that a lot of people are mentioning their experiences but has anyone here actually complained and taken it all the way to their MP and to the top of the railway management? If I was held and prevented from catching my train or made to run /rush for it I would take my complaint to the highest level. Fortunately I do not use the station.

 

[38Cto15E]

I transited Blackpool North on 4 seperate days last week and never found any problems with staff attitude.
What I did see, was after arriving at 1520hrs on Monday 7th March the concourse was largely empty. However there was one animated person bellowing loudly and generally behaving in a unsocial manner. His voice rebounded throught the station concourse and this person seemed to have been on the Irn Bru.
From what I saw I think he was known to staff and the situation calmed down as I left.
Extra news was that there now are some overhead wires for the Talbot Gateway now going into the new BPN tram interchange although these do not continue towards the seafront..

 

[Bletchleyite]

What I did see, was after arriving at 1520hrs on Monday 7th March the concourse was largely empty. However there was one animated person bellowing loudly and generally behaving in a unsocial manner. His voice rebounded throught the station concourse and this person seemed to have been on the Irn Bru.

Par for the course for Blackpool I think. It really is an odd place.

 

[nanstallon]

What I do not get about this thread is that a lot of people are mentioning their experiences but has anyone here actually complained and taken it all the way to their MP and to the top of the railway management? If I was held and prevented from catching my train or made to run /rush for it I would take my complaint to the highest level. Fortunately I do not use the station.

This is very British . People love a good moan, but tend to be fonder of the grievance than of the remedy.

To be fair, Blackpool has more than its fair share of anti-social people, but tarring the whole fare paying customer community with the same brush has given the station staff a bad name.