Passengers denied boarding at Blackpool North?

[STINT47]

I think someone made a freedom of information requwst about the number of staff complaint made about Blackpool North. Sadly I cannot find the link now, sorry.

The figures showed the number of complaints were not high and not disproportionate to other stations. Most complaints were actually about train reliability.

I guess from Northerns prospective they don't see a problem. I wonder if people don't complain because they think nothing will happen? Personally I wouldn't given poor replies recived in the past I feel you'd have more.luxk telling the station cat.

 

[Elecman]

The

I transited Blackpool North on 4 seperate days last week and never found any problems with staff attitude.
What I did see, was after arriving at 1520hrs on Monday 7th March the concourse was largely empty. However there was one animated person bellowing loudly and generally behaving in a unsocial manner. His voice rebounded throught the station concourse and this person seemed to have been on the Irn Bru.
From what I saw I think he was known to staff and the situation calmed down as I left.
Extra news was that there now are some overhead wires for the Talbot Gateway now going into the new BPN tram interchange although these do not continue towards the seafront..

wires have been up for a few months now

 

[bramling]

I think someone made a freedom of information requwst about the number of staff complaint made about Blackpool North. Sadly I cannot find the link now, sorry.

The figures showed the number of complaints were not high and not disproportionate to other stations. Most complaints were actually about train reliability.

I guess from Northerns prospective they don't see a problem. I wonder if people don't complain because they think nothing will happen? Personally I wouldn't given poor replies recived in the past I feel you'd have more.luxk telling the station cat.

From a Northern perspective, it’s an insignificant station at the end of a minor branch line. It’s easier simply to keep the staff sweet. In terms of complaints, most users will be one-off users and so are less likely to complain.

The whole place is like something out of the Soviet Union, right down to the austere architecture. The current facility was never intended to be the main station, it was built as the excursion facility, and was grafted into its current role when the original site was closed - presumably to allow the land to be re-used. Straight away this moved the station further away from the seafront. The way the station is worked is extremely curated - passengers are expected to conform in every respect, or will experience disproportionate admonishment. The problem is the concourse isn’t really big enough to function in the way they attempt, and having to stand and queue in a crowded holding area is hardly an enjoyable start to a journey. Skegness is not much better, albeit they seem to manage without the rudeness.

Staff rudeness isn’t unique to Blackpool on Northern though - some of the contracted staff at Piccadilly can be just as bad in my experience, though I’ve not really been there since the Serco franchise ended so perhaps things have improved.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you've seen how the typical Blackpool tourist behaves, this approach is completely understandable and arguably necessary.

Running it like an airport seems justified in that context. The only thing not justified is doing that badly so trains go out empty.

Though talking about rudeness (as opposed to incompetence), the Piccadilly "red line" security guards are hard to beat. Some of them look like they've been dragged in straight from the crowd of spiceheads on Piccadilly Gardens. Not appropriately presented for public service at all. I find it marked just how much higher quality security staff are in mainland Europe.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

From a Northern perspective, it’s an insignificant station at the end of a minor branch line.

Just wondering if you are confusing Blackpool South station with Blackpool North station from what you say above. Blackpool North is a six-platform DfT category C1 railway station.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just wondering if you are confusing Blackpool South station with Blackpool North station from what you say above. Blackpool North is a six-platform DfT category C1 railway station.

It's still pretty unimportant compared with the much bigger job of getting large numbers of people into and out of Manchester and Leeds.

 

[Grumpy Git]

If you've seen how the typical Blackpool tourist behaves, this approach is completely understandable and arguably necessary.

Running it like an airport seems justified in that context. The only thing not justified is doing that badly so trains go out empty.

Though talking about rudeness (as opposed to incompetence), the Piccadilly "red line" security guards are hard to beat. Some of them look like they've been dragged in straight from the crowd of spiceheads on Piccadilly Gardens. Not appropriately presented for public service at all. I find it marked just how much higher quality security staff are in mainland Europe.

+1. Some of the personnel I've witnessed on P13/14 look like they were last in the queue when the "uniforms" were dished-out too. "Made to measure" comes to mind - measured in cm and made in inches.

 

[bramling]

It's still pretty unimportant compared with the much bigger job of getting large numbers of people into and out of Manchester and Leeds.

My point exactly. The commuter traffic is, presumably, fairly negligible. To Northern it is one rung above nothing.

If you've seen how the typical Blackpool tourist behaves, this approach is completely understandable and arguably necessary.

Running it like an airport seems justified in that context. The only thing not justified is doing that badly so trains go out empty.

Though talking about rudeness (as opposed to incompetence), the Piccadilly "red line" security guards are hard to beat. Some of them look like they've been dragged in straight from the crowd of spiceheads on Piccadilly Gardens. Not appropriately presented for public service at all. I find it marked just how much higher quality security staff are in mainland Europe.

This is where having separate arrival and departure platforms would work well, but could only be achieved with 12 platform faces, with a face each side of the track. There possibly wouldn’t be room for such a layout in the current footprint, but it might have been possible had the original site been retained. Central would certainly have allowed for it.

The airport model simply doesn’t work well with the small size of the concourse combined with short turnarounds. Another way of making it work would be to ensure each train is ready for boarding half an hour or so before departure, but again £££. Which brings us back to Blackpool not being important enough to justify anything other than status quo.

It’s not going to change, as the boarding system is always going to lead to the staff taking on an attitude, and in turn the staff will feel that “their” way of working is required in response to constant passenger conflicts, and management won’t want to upset the apple cart. A catch 22.

 

[philthetube]

Without wishing to ruin the mood, I've lurked here for a while and never quite believed Blackpool North could possibly be as bad as everyone says, but I visited for the first time last year (February) and the whole experience was utterly, utterly bizarre.


Which door you're supposed to use at any given time, and when it'll be unlocked, is a mystery that science cannot explain. One thing's for certain though: you will use the wrong one, and it will be your fault. If none of the doors are unlocked and you miss your train, that'll be your fault too!



So as best I can tell, to escape the station unscathed you basically have to embrace Schrödinger's Door. If you choose a door to wait at and hope for the best, it will always be the wrong door, and you will be punished for this. So you have to stare resolutely at the ceiling and pretend you aren't getting panicky despite the fact your train leaves in three minutes and all of the doors are locked, bolted, and probably electrified too for good measure. Then, and only then, one of the doors will be slowly unlocked (the one furthest away from you, no matter where you are) and you will be permitted to leave this cursed place.

Try waiting at the door with the details of your train displayed above it, It always works for me, and for all other passengers I have seen there.

Separating out the issues

Keeping passengers back from trains until staff let them board - As long as the staff managing this operation are on the ball and courteous then this shouldn't really be a problem especially when there is an inside area to wait Vs the largely uncovered platforms. Some of the trains at Blackpool as everywhere else have short turnaround times take York for example they arrive at XX:07 and depart again at XX:21 . On arrival with a short turnaround like that it's likely the platform would have majority of the passengers for departure waiting . Makes more sense to keep passengers from boarding straight away so cleaners can get on and do their thing. Last time I was there Blackpool also had mobile CET equipment again not something you want to be navigating round passengers and their luggage . Another missed opportunity at Blackpool is the possibility of boarding passengers requiring assistance first especially those in wheelchairs , getting them on the train before people have chance to fill the wheelchair space with luggage , buggies or bikes .

Staff attitude - It seems that Blackpool is notorious for staff attitude , if that is the case and interrogation the complaints data points to a culture among staff then this should be acted upon by the TOC .

If staffs inattentiveness is causing people to miss trains because they aren't opening the doors or opening them in good time again this needs addressing . Because as I said above the method of operating can make sense for short turnarounds as long as the staff involved are attentive and mindful of time .

They are good with passengers who have requested assistance, both arriving and departing. I have seen this in action often.

 

[Scott1]

I've read this through a few times and still don't quite understand the complaints that it is complicated. There is a board next to each door telling you which train is from that platform. You wait by the door for your train, and go through when it starts boarding. Theres a station on my patch that uses the same system, but with trellis gates, and it doesn't cause any issue.

The complaints regarding staff attitude etc fair enough, I've not experienced that personally so it would be unfair for me to comment, but I'm really struggling to see the difficulty with the doors.

 

[bramling]

I've read this through a few times and still don't quite understand the complaints that it is complicated. There is a board next to each door telling you which train is from that platform. You wait by the door for your train, and go through when it starts boarding. Theres a station on my patch that uses the same system, but with trellis gates, and it doesn't cause any issue.

The complaints regarding staff attitude etc fair enough, I've not experienced that personally so it would be unfair for me to comment, but I'm really struggling to see the difficulty with the doors.

The experience is hardly user friendly. Herded into a comparatively cramped waiting area, no real opportunity to sit down, and standing in a line until the staff decide to open the door, then a scrum for the train. Anything at all which deviates from the expected practice and it will be a rude admonishment from the staff.

 

[AndrewE]

The whole place is like something out of the Soviet Union, right down to the austere architecture. The current facility was never intended to be the main station, it was built as the excursion facility, and was grafted into its current role when the original site was closed

It wasn't. Having done quite a bit of work there on the structure of the building I was told it was originally a wagon repair workshop!

 

[Bevan Price]

I've read this through a few times and still don't quite understand the complaints that it is complicated. There is a board next to each door telling you which train is from that platform. You wait by the door for your train, and go through when it starts boarding. Theres a station on my patch that uses the same system, but with trellis gates, and it doesn't cause any issue.

The complaints regarding staff attitude etc fair enough, I've not experienced that personally so it would be unfair for me to comment, but I'm really struggling to see the difficulty with the doors.

There needn't be a problem, but they sometimes open the doors uncomfortably close to deparure times.

 

[Trackman]

I think someone made a freedom of information requwst about the number of staff complaint made about Blackpool North. Sadly I cannot find the link now, sorry.

See post #1, there is a link on there.

 

[muz379]

The experience is hardly user friendly. Herded into a comparatively cramped waiting area, no real opportunity to sit down, and standing in a line until the staff decide to open the door, then a scrum for the train. Anything at all which deviates from the expected practice and it will be a rude admonishment from the staff.

I agree the station concourse could do with more seating if its going to be used as a waiting room , not sure about the scrum for the train though I mean my experience at other terminus stations like lime street are that trains are fairly often locked until the crew turn up meaning passengers are waiting on the platform and at busy times there is still a scrum to get on and get a seat . Even at liverpool when trains on short turnarounds arrive theres a scrum to get on with people pushing past you as you try and get off on arrival . I dont think unlocking the doors would change anything unless trains are also left unlocked which I believe could be a transec requirement if they are being left at stations for long periods .

If anything at Blackpool with majority of manchester bound services (ones I use) being 6 car you can usually walk the full 5/6 cars and get a seat even at the busiest of times .

Ive genuinely only had one rude experience of staff at B pool which is about on par proprotainally with how I find northern staff in other places but perhaps others have had more typical experience .

 

[tomuk]

There needn't be a problem, but they sometimes open the doors uncomfortably close to deparure times.

I've told this story before but my experience at Blackpool was being held until after departure time.

I arrived probably less then ten minutes before departure, proceeded through the ticket barrier and then joined the queue waiting to be allowed onto the platform.
As it turned out the inbound service was late and didn't arrive until after departure time.

We all waited while the adjacent set of doors were opened to allow the arriving passengers off. Then ceremoniously those doors were closed and our doors were opened.
The 319 was at the far end on top of another set, so a rush along the platform ensued with a number families with buggies trailing behind and on to the train.

We departed at least a further 5 minutes late if instead we had been allowed to queue on the platform and board as soon as the train arrived.
There were enough staff available that our wait on the platform could have been supervised.

The whole process is quite bizarre like the Royston Vasey equivalent of a Japanese tea ceremony or something you'd have seen in ex soviet eastern Europe in a Michael Palin travelogue.

 

[dave55uk]

I was there on a Sunday evening last November and was held, along with the other passengers, in the circulating area until a couple of minutes before departure.

 

[slipdigby]

It wasn't. Having done quite a bit of work there on the structure of the building I was told it was originally a wagon repair workshop!

1938 Excursion platforms concourse, as per comment by @bramling. You can see it on the right hand side in this 1972 view of Blackpool North (as was): https://www.flickr.com/photos/14581588@N05/5800092360

Some further excellent images showing context here: https://www.flickriver.com/photos/14581588@N05/tags/blackpoolnorthrailwaystation/

 

[bramling]

1938 Excursion platforms concourse, as per comment by @bramling. You can see it on the right hand side in this 1972 view of Blackpool North (as was): https://www.flickr.com/photos/14581588@N05/5800092360

Some further excellent images showing context here: https://www.flickriver.com/photos/14581588@N05/tags/blackpoolnorthrailwaystation/

Interesting, as I’ve been trying to date this building. It *looks* 1950s outwardly, but this seems deceptive. So a late 1930s building heavily modified in the 1970s? There’s certainly a 1970s feel to elements of it.

 

[eroded]

I weirdly now want to visit BPN to experience this - kind of like that Chinese restaurant in Soho that became famous for rude service.

Could there be a fun/creative way to frustrate this? If you were doing a back-to-back turnaround on the same service, could you simply stay on board the train? Presumably they don't get locked for the cleaners? Get 20 of us to all pop along for a 'do' and see the reaction of the staff

 

[childwallblues]

I have come on to this fhread quite late but in thevlast three months to mid February I visited Blackpool North on seven occasions. I have normally returned home on the 1404 to Liverpool Lime Street which is booked for a 6 car Class 331. Of all my experiences the worst was when the door was not unlocked until 1402. The guard told all passengers to board the front 3 carriages. However he relented when he was informed that some were only going to Preston or Wigan. The train left at 1408 but was on time leaving Preston.

 

[Mugby]

When I visited last year (by the Avanti service) on arrival, tickets were checked when exiting the platform through the door, then you needed your ticket again to get through the barriers. Is this normal procedure for all arrivals?

 

[permarquis]

Try waiting at the door with the details of your train displayed above it, It always works for me, and for all other passengers I have seen there.

They are good with passengers who have requested assistance, both arriving and departing. I have seen this in action often.

I can't speak for your experience, but I did exactly that, and that door was never opened. In fact they didn't unlock any departure doors until I tried to use the one they'd opened for arrivals, at which point they opened one of the ones nearer to the gate line. It was very quiet at the time so perhaps that was the issue, and they'd be more on the ball if a group of passengers had gathered.

I guess for me, the uncertainty is the issue. It only takes a few issues like this before passengers stop trusting the system and everything becomes more stressful than it needs to be. Which door will be unlocked? When will it be unlocked? Once it's unlocked, am I allowed to go through? If not, when? All of those little anxieties contribute to it being a more unpleasant experience than it needs to be, for no obvious benefit.

Whereas in many other terminus stations, including much busier ones, the experience is night and day, and I'm usually on the train and comfortably seated a good 5-10 minutes before it departs. No stress, no anxiety, no agro. I don't really see a good reason why Blackpool can't do the same, other than "it's always been this way".

 

[Vespa]

I can't speak for your experience, but I did exactly that, and that door was never opened. In fact they didn't unlock any departure doors until I tried to use the one they'd opened for arrivals, at which point they opened one of the ones nearer to the gate line. It was very quiet at the time so perhaps that was the issue, and they'd be more on the ball if a group of passengers had gathered.

I guess for me, the uncertainty is the issue. It only takes a few issues like this before passengers stop trusting the system and everything becomes more stressful than it needs to be. Which door will be unlocked? When will it be unlocked? Once it's unlocked, am I allowed to go through? If not, when? All of those little anxieties contribute to it being a more unpleasant experience than it needs to be, for no obvious benefit.

Whereas in many other terminus stations, including much busier ones, the experience is night and day, and I'm usually on the train and comfortably seated a good 5-10 minutes before it departs. No stress, no anxiety, no agro. I don't really see a good reason why Blackpool can't do the same, other than "it's always been this way".

That's why I've decided not to use Backpool North for my return trip I use South or drive and park further down the promenade then walking up to central.

*In fact I use the opportunity to break my journey at Preston to go for a coffee or a meal before resuming my journey, a much less stressful experience.

 

[childwallblues]

When I visited last year (by the Avanti service) on arrival, tickets were checked when exiting the platform through the door, then you needed your ticket again to get through the barriers. Is this normal procedure for all arrivals?

Your experience does seem quite normal with Avanti arrivals but they are also there quite often for some Northern arrivals.

 

[Class800]

Anyone seen first hand how they deal with assistance passengers/wheelchairs/people with walking sticks?

 

[AngelicUpstart]

Anyone seen first hand how they deal with assistance passengers/wheelchairs/people with walking sticks?

Yes, many times, although there are lots of people with walking sticks who don't ask for any help. If the train is in on time they will get them on the train before the doors are opened. If it's a tight turnaround, as many are, they will do their absolute best to get them on without delaying the able-bodied, many of whom are old and slow. And yes, they do sometimes get wheelchairs through the door before the incoming train has arrived, if it is a really tight turnaround.

 

[Mikey C]

Your experience does seem quite normal with Avanti arrivals but they are also there quite often for some Northern arrivals.

I've had the same "double check" with a Northern train from Manchester (airport), a 6 car 331

 

[Vespa]

I've had the same "double check" with a Northern train from Manchester (airport), a 6 car 331

I had similar, in fact before I even put my ticket through the gate machine one of the staff took it out of my hand to inspect it then put it in the machine....

I thought what was that all about ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I had similar, in fact before I even put my ticket through the gate machine one of the staff took it out of my hand to inspect it then put it in the machine....

I thought what was that all about ?

Seeing if a Railcard needs to be checked?