Peak carnet tickets from Moorgate to Hertford North

[Carles]

Hi,

On Monday evening I tried to buy peak carnet tickets at Hertford North station to travel from Moorgate to Hertford North. The ticket seller said that there was no need to buy peak tickets and that I should buy off-peak tickets. I asked if this was ok for trains leaving Moorgate between 16:30 and 19:00 and he said that it's perfectly fine, no peak tickets required. I said that I remember something else on the website and he was adamant that there were no peak carnet tickets from Moorgate to Hertford North. But I mentioned that I had previously bought peak tickets for this journey and he said again, no peak tickets for this trip.

I asked Great Northern about this by email and I haven't had an answer yet.

Today (Wednesday) we asked another ticket seller at Hertford North station and he said the same: peak carnet tickets are needed only for early morning trains from Moorgate to Hertford North, arriving at Hertford North before 09:00. He said that peak tickets would be needed for trains leaving Moorgate between 16:30 and 19:00 if they went further north than Hertford North, but for Hertford North, only off-peak would be required.

We've called Great Northern to confirm this, but we got diverted to National Rail on pressing the fares option and they were pretty clueless. When eventually speaking to a Great Northern person again, it seemed they weren't sure and kept referring us to the website.

The website says https://www.greatnorthernrail.com/tickets/ticket-types-explained/carnet-tickets:
{quote}
You can travel Off-Peak at the following times, Monday-Friday:

• Arriving into London after 10:00
• Leaving London after 09:30
• Before 16:30 or after 19:01

{quote}
Which seems ambiguous: I would leave London after 09:30 but between 16:30 and 19:00.

The National Rail or Great Northern website, for a single journey, always shows the same price (regardless of the time of the day) and all of the carnet options (peak, off-peak, 5, 10) are available for these journeys as well.

Any ideas to confirm what the two ticket sellers said? Because it sounds weird. Actually we've been using peak tickets for a while for this evening journey.

Thanks very much!

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Hi,

On Monday evening I tried to buy peak carnet tickets at Hertford North station to travel from Moorgate to Hertford North. The ticket seller said that there was no need to buy peak tickets and that I should buy off-peak tickets. I asked if this was ok for trains leaving Moorgate between 16:30 and 19:00 and he said that it's perfectly fine, no peak tickets required. I said that I remember something else on the website and he was adamant that there were no peak carnet tickets from Moorgate to Hertford North. But I mentioned that I had previously bought peak tickets for this journey and he said again, no peak tickets for this trip.

I asked Great Northern about this by email and I haven't had an answer yet.

Today (Wednesday) we asked another ticket seller at Hertford North station and he said the same: peak carnet tickets are needed only for early morning trains from Moorgate to Hertford North, arriving at Hertford North before 09:00. He said that peak tickets would be needed for trains leaving Moorgate between 16:30 and 19:00 if they went further north than Hertford North, but for Hertford North, only off-peak would be required.

We've called Great Northern to confirm this, but we got diverted to National Rail on pressing the fares option and they were pretty clueless. When eventually speaking to a Great Northern person again, it seemed they weren't sure and kept referring us to the website.

The website says https://www.greatnorthernrail.com/tickets/ticket-types-explained/carnet-tickets:
{quote}
You can travel Off-Peak at the following times, Monday-Friday:

• Arriving into London after 10:00
• Leaving London after 09:30
• Before 16:30 or after 19:01

{quote}
Which seems ambiguous: I would leave London after 09:30 but between 16:30 and 19:00.

The National Rail or Great Northern website, for a single journey, always shows the same price (regardless of the time of the day) and all of the carnet options (peak, off-peak, 5, 10) are available for these journeys as well.

Any ideas to confirm what the two ticket sellers said? Because it sounds weird. Actually we've been using peak tickets for a while for this evening journey.

Thanks very much!

If travelling from Moorgate to Hertford North (or indeed any London Terminal), Off-Peak Day Single and Return tickets for that journey have restriction 'B1'. Looking this up at nationalrail.co.uk/B1, we see that this only has morning restrictions (not valid between 04:30 and 09:29 inclusive), but not evening restrictions. Hence what the ticket sellers said is true - for that particular journey there are no tickets with evening peak restrictions (unless you refer to the Super Off-Peak tickets, which are valid only on weekends and bank holidays, but on any train on those days).

 

[smithy1]

For the London Terminals to Hertford North Off-Peak Carnet fare, restriction code B1 applies, which allows travel on all trains (valid for the relevant route) after 0930.

 

[Carles]

Thanks very much for both answers. I didn't know brfares.com website, very useful.

I'm trying to find the information on the National Rail website just for peace of mind in case that some day I need it. I've found the B1 restrictions: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/63100.aspx

But I can't find how to say that the "CARNET OFFPK 5" has the B1 (in the National Rail website). I've found this:
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/CP5.aspx

but this is the off-peak, peak, MOR to HFN and HFN to MOR mixed up and doesn't specify the B1 restrictions.

So, how to know (if it's not thanks to brfares.com) that CP5 is B1?

Getting there, thanks for your help!

 

[Hadders]

Avantix Traveller, available to download from the Rail Delivery Group website via the link below (you have to register but it's free) shows the B1 restriction on the Off Peak Carnet.

http://data.atoc.org/data-download

Remember that Carnets are sold as singles so you need to look up London Terminals - Hertford North.

 

[philjo]

I suspect the rules are written like that as most carnets are from Stevenage or stations further north to London where the evening peak rules apply. Stations from London to south of Stevenage via Welwyn or on the Hertford Loop there are no evening peak restrictions.

When I was using a Potters Bar to London Terminals carnet for travel into London for 2-3 days a week for a couple of months last autumn I used the peak carnet single in the morning but bought an off-peak single with the gold card discount in the evening as it was cheaper. - this was in addition to my annual season from Baldock to Potters Bar as I was travelling to Potters Bar on the other days.


The odd thing in the rules on the website is that is says Carnets from Cambridge e.g. to Letchworth or Hitchin can only be issued as a peak single - there isn't an off-peak version available. not sure why Cambridge is treated differently?

 

[Hadders]

The evening peak restrictions are nothing to do with Carnets. They were introduced by First Capital Connect in 2006. If I remember correctly there was outrage at the imposition of the restrictions and the disproportionate increase in fares at some stations. The compromise was that evening peak restrictions don't app;y to stations south of Stevenage or north of Ely.

 

[Carles]

Thanks everybody for all the information and historic data. Six months living in Hertford and we are still discovering ticket complexities.

For future reference, might I ask, does anybody know where on the National Rail website is the information that there are no evening restrictions from MOR to HFN? I like very much brfares.com (and I didn't know of it) but I'd like to find it in National Rail if possible.

Thanks again all!

 

[Hadders]

I don't think National Rail website specifically shows carnet tickets. Great Northern's website will sell Off Peak carnet tickets for journeys between Moorgate and Hertford North in the evening rush hour.

 

[Hadders]

One other thing I've just realised is that there are two carnet tickets available between London and Hertford:

London Terminals - Hertford North £5.50 Off Peak/£7.80 Peak
London Terminals - Hertford Stations (i.e. valid from Liverpool Street to Hertford East as well as Kings Cross/Moorgate to Hertford North) £5.70 Off Peak/£7.90 Peak

 

[Carles]

Oh thanks Hadders. I've seen on the Great Northern website that they offer the off-peak for the evening services (16:30 to 19:00) and that if I press to the "Show ticket restrictions" link it links to the http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/B1 . So I'm happy to see it from this sources as well as the other sources. I should have thought of this earlier (I checked the National Rail planner carefully seeing that they offer the "Anytime" for any time of the day and it confused me).

Thanks again!

 

[Carles]

One more thing, I've just realised that the "Carnet Sale Coupon" (the "NOT VALID FOR TRAVEL" ticket size information) actually states "Validity: B1" so here it goes an easy way to link the ticket (after having bought it) to the validity restrictions.

Cheers,