Peak service pattern on SWML at Weymouth electrification

[nw1]

Sorry, another enquiry on the late-20th-century SWML...

Does anyone have any WTTs from 1988, immediately at Weymouth electrification? I have the feeling someone did, but not totally sure.

If so, it would be interesting to see the fast-line pattern out of Waterloo in the evening peak between around 1700-1900 (including Portsmouth Direct and Alton, not just SWML to Basingstoke).

I remember that during the 90s there was always a very consistent peak pattern out of Waterloo, despite many off-peak changes (for example Weymouth fasts at 1715 and 1745, SWML semi-fasts around 1728 and 1758, and Basingstoke stoppers around 1700, 1723, 1736 and 1800). Would be interesting to see if this pattern became established in 1988 at electrification.

Would also be interesting to see a 1987 pattern for comparison if anyone has that. I clearly remember the 1985 pattern, but can't completely remember whether that pattern was still in place by 1987.

Would also be interested to know when the Cobham line peak services switched from the fast to the slow lines.

Thanks.

 

[Grecian 1998]

I can't say for 1988, but I do have the 1991-92 winter timetable if that helps. This shows between 1700 - 1900:

1702 to Portsmouth Harbour via Eastleigh, all stations from Farnborough.

1708 to Bedhampton, calling Woking, Guildford then all stations.

1715 to Weymouth calling Winchester, SAP, Southampton, Bournemouth, Poole, Wareham then all stations.

1718 to Alton, all stations from Woking.

1720 to Portsmouth Harbour via Guildford, calling Guildford, Farncombe, Godalming, Haslemere, Petersfield, Havant then all stations from Havant.

1723 to Eastleigh, all stations from Woking

1725 to Farnham, all stations from Surbiton

1730 to Yeovil Junction calling at Basingstoke then all stations.

1732 to Portsmouth / Bournemouth all stations from Basingstoke splitting at Eastleigh. Portsmouth all stations. Bournemouth was SAP, Southampton,
Totton, Brockenhurst then all stations.

1734 to Basingstoke, calling at Woking then all stations from Farnborough.

1738 to Portsmouth Harbour via Guildford, calling Woking, Guildford then all stations.

1742 to Farnham, same pattern at 1725

1745 to Weymouth calling Basingstoke, SAP, Southampton, Brockenhurst, New Milton, Christchurch, then all stations from Bournemouth.

1748 to Alton, same pattern as 1718.

1756 to Portsmouth / Poole splitting at Eastleigh, same calling pattern as the 1732.

1758 to Southampton, all stations from Farnborough.

1806 to Haslemere, all stations from Woking.

1815 to Exeter St Davids, calling at Woking then all stations except Pinhoe (Pinhoe at the time was the least important station on the route, but due to
population growth is now more important than Feniton and Whimple).

1815 to Haslemere, calling Clapham Junction, Woking, Wimbledon, Surbiton, then all stations from Woking.

1818 to Alton, same pattern as 1718

1820 to Portsmouth Harbour via Guildford, calling Clapham Junction, Woking, Guildford, Godalming, Haslemere then all stations.

1823 to Basingstoke, all stations from Woking.

1832 to Weymouth, same pattern as 1715 plus Basingstoke and Brockenhurst.

1834 to Portsmouth Harbour via Guildford, same calling pattern as 1738.

1836 to Alton, standard pattern plus Walton-on-Thames, Weybridge and West Byfleet.

1842 to Basingstoke, all stations from Woking.

1845 to Poole, same pattern as 1745 plus Clapham Junction, Woking, Eastleigh and Pokesdown.

1850 to Portsmouth Harbour via Guildford, same calling pattern as 1720 except Farncombe omitted.

1900 to Alton, standard pattern plus Clapham Junction.

There seems to be a lull in fast services around 1800 - no idea why.

Appreciate this isn't 1988, but shows what it was like within a few years.

Don't know about 1987, but my understanding is that prior to electrification, the standard pattern on the Bournemouth route was 3 tph - one calling at Southampton and Bournemouth then all stations to Weymouth, one semi-fast (presumably much like the current Weymouth hourly slow service) and one stopper. Save for XC services, there was only 1 tph west of Bournemouth. The change from 4REP to 33 at Bournemouth was rather time-consuming and I doubt there was much appetite to increase the frequency of the procedure. It might have been different in the peaks though.

 

[jfollows]

16/5/88 to 14/5/89:

17:00 93 Poole FL to Woking platform 4, Farnborough and all stations, overtaken at Basingstoke by 17:15
17:06 1V17 D315 Exeter first stop Basingstoke
17:09 81 Portsmouth, first stop Woking
17:11 75 Guildford, Wimbledon then SL Surbiton
17p16 91 THE ROYAL WESSEX to Weymouth & Wareham, first stop Winchester, Southampton Parkway, splits at Southampton.
17:18 52 Alton, Woking then SL
17:20 82 Portsmouth, first stop Woking
17:24 93 Eastleigh, first stop Farnborough then SL all stations
17:26 53 Farnham, Surbiton then SL all stations
17:30 92 Bournemouth, Woking Basingstoke Micheldever Winchester Parkway Southampton
17:32 81 Portsmouth, pass Woking 17/58
17:34 1L13 D315 Salisbury, Farnborough Fleet Basingstoke
17:36 63 Basingstoke, SL Hampton Court Junction, Walton Weybridge West Byfleet and all stations
17:40 82 Portsmouth, first stop Woking
17:44 53 Farnham, Surbiton then all stations, overtaken by 17:48
17p46 Weymouth, Woking Basingstoke Winchester Eastleigh Parkway
17:48 52 Alton, SL after Woking but first stop Brookwood
17:50 81 Portsmouth, first stop Woking
17:54 93 Eastleigh, Woking Farnborough and all stations
17:56 10 Woking, first stop Surbiton
17:58 FO Poole, Basingstoke WInchester Eastleigh Parkway
18:00 72 Fratton, West Byfleet Woking
18:06 93 Poole, SL before Woking Farnborough Fleet Basingstoke Micheldever Winchester Eastleigh
18:08 75 Guildford, Surbiton and all stations
18:10 1V18 Exeter D315 Basingstoke
18:13 52 Alton, SL after Woking first call Ash Vale
18:15 82 Portsmouth, first call Woking
18:17 63 Basingstoke, Surbiton Woking and all stations
18p19 83 Portsmouth, Clapham Wimbledon Surbiton and all stations
18:30 Weymouth, Winchester Parkway Southampton
18:32 72 Fratton, first stop Woking
18:34 52 Alton, Walton Weybridge Woking Ash Vale
18p37 93 Bournemouth, Clapham Surbiton Woking and all stations
18:42 62 D140 Salisbury, first stop Basingstoke
18:45 Poole, Clapham Woking Basingstoke Winchester Eastleigh Parkway
18:48 75 Guildford, Clapham Wimbledon Surbiton and all stations
18:55 81 Portsmouth, first stop Woking

p - advertised 1 minute earlier

 

[JonathanH]

Appreciate this isn't 1988, but shows what it was like within a few years.

One of the substantial changes in 1990 was Solent Link electrification, which led to the additional Portsmouth Harbour via Eastleigh services.

To show that, Summer 1989 is somewhat different from what is posted above, but closer to 1988

From the public timetable, 1989 had, from 1600 to 1900

1605 Southampton, calling at Clapham Junction, Surbiton, Woking and all stations to Southampton
1610 Alton, calling at Surbiton, Walton-on-Thames, Weybridge, West Byfleet and all stations to Alton
1615 Basingstoke, calling at Clapham Junction, Woking and Basingstoke
1620 Portsmouth Harbour, calling at Clapham Junction, Woking, Guildford and all stations to Portsmouth Harbour
1622 Guildford, calling at Clapham Junction, Wimbledon, Surbiton and all stations to Guildford via Woking
1632 Weymouth, calling at Southampton Airport, Southampton, Brockenhurst, Bournemouth and all stations to Weymouth
1635 Eastleigh, calling at Clapham Junction, Wimbledon, Surbiton, Woking and all stations to Eastleigh
1640 Salisbury, calling at Clapham Junction, Basingstoke and all stations to Salisbury
1645 Poole, calling at Clapham Junction, Woking, Basingstoke, Winchester, Eastleigh, Southampton Airport, Southampton, Totton, Brockenhurst, New Milton, Christchurch and all stations to Poole
1648 Alton, calling at Woking and all stations to Alton
1650 Portsmouth Harbour, calling at Guildford, Haslemere, Petersfield, Havant, Portsmouth & Southsea and Portsmouth Harbour
1652 Farnham, calling at Clapham Junction, Wimbledon, Surbiton and all stations to Farnham
1658 Portsmouth & Southsea, calling at Woking, Guildford and all stations to Portsmouth & Southsea
1700 Southampton, calling at Woking, Farnborough and all stations to Southampton
1705 Exeter St Davids, calling at Basingstoke, Whitchurch, Andover, Salisbury, all stations to Honiton, Exeter Central and Exeter St Davids
1708 Portsmouth Harbour, calling at Woking, Worplesdon, Guildford, Godalming, Haslemere, Liphook, Liss, Petersfield, Havant, Bedhampton, Fratton, Portsmouth & Southsea and Portsmouth Harbour
1710 Guildford, calling at Wimbledon, Surbiton and all stations to Guildford via Woking
1715 Weymouth and Poole, calling at Winchester, Southampton Parkway, Southampton, dividing for Bournemouth, Poole, Wareham and all stations to Weymouth, and for Totton, Lyndhurst Road, Brockenhurst and all stations to Poole
1718 Alton, calling at Woking and all stations to Alton
1720 Portsmouth Harbour, calling at Woking, Guildford, all stations to Havant, Fratton, Portsmouth & Southsea and Portsmouth Harbour
1724 Eastleigh, calling at Woking, Farnborough, all stations to Basingstoke, Winchester, Shawford and Eastleigh
1726 Farnham, calling at Surbiton and all stations to Farnham
1730 Bournemouth, calling at Woking, Basingstoke, Micheldever, Winchester, Southampton Parkway, Southampton, Brockenhurst, New Milton, Christchurch and Bournemouth
1732 Portsmouth Harbour, calling at Woking, Guildford, Godalming, Haslemere, Petersfield, Havant, Bedhampton, Fratton, Portsmouth & Southsea and Portsmouth Harbour
1734 Yeovil Junction, calling at Farnborough, Fleet, Basingstoke and all stations to Yeovil Junction
1736 Basingstoke, calling at Walton-on-Thames, Weybridge, West Byfleet, Woking and all stations to Basingstoke
1740 Portsmouth & Southsea, calling at Woking and all stations to Portsmouth & Southsea
1743 Farnham, calling at Surbiton and all stations to Farnham
1745 Weymouth, calling at Woking, Basingstoke, Winchester, Eastleigh, Southampton Parkway, Southampton, Totton, Brockenhurst, Bournemouth, Branksome, Parkstone, Poole, Hamworthy, Wareham and all stations to Weymouth
1748 Alton, calling at Brookwood and all stations to Alton
1750 Portsmouth Harbour, calling at Woking, Guildford, Godalming, Haslemere, Petersfield, Havant, Fratton, Portsmouth & Southsea and Portsmouth Harbour
1754 Poole, calling at Woking, Farnborough and all stations to Poole
1756 Haslemere, calling at Surbiton and all stations to Haslemere via Woking
1758 Haslemere, calling at Worplesdon and all stations to Haslemere
1800 Poole, calling at Woking, Basingstoke, Micheldever, Winchester, Eastleigh, Southampton Parkway, Southampton, Brockenhurst and all stations to Poole
1805 Basingstoke, calling at Clapham Junction, Woking, Farnborough and all stations to Basingstoke
1808 Guildford, calling at Surbiton, all stations to Woking, and Guildford
1811 Portsmouth Harbour, calling at Woking, Guildford, Godalming, Haslemere and all stations to Portsmouth Harbour
1815 Exeter St Davids, calling at Woking, Basingstoke, all stations to Feniton, Exeter Central and Exeter St Davids
1815 Portsmouth Harbour, calling at Clapham Junction, Wimbledon, Surbiton and all stations to Portsmouth Harbour
1818 Alton, calling at Woking, Ash Vale and all stations to Alton
1820 Basingstoke, calling at Surbiton, Woking, and all stations to Basingstoke
1827 Portsmouth Harbour, calling at Woking, Guildford, all stations to Havant, Hilsea and all stations to Portsmouth Harbour
1832 Weymouth, calling at Winchester, Southampton Parkway, Southampton, Brockenhurst, Bournemouth, Poole and all stations to Weymouth
1834 Alton, calling at Walton-on-Thames, Weybridge, West Byfleet and all stations to Alton
1840 Salisbury, calling at Basingstoke and all stations to Salisbury
1842 Basingstoke, calling at Clapham Junction, Surbiton, Woking and all stations to Basingstoke
1845 Guildford, calling at Clapham Junction, Wimbledon, Surbiton and all stations to Guildford via Woking
1850 Portsmouth Harbour, calling at Woking, Guildford, Godalming, Haslemere, Petersfield, Havant, Fratton, Portsmouth & Southsea and Portsmouth Harbour

The 1715 was "The Royal Wessex". The 1650 was "The Victory"

 

[nw1]

I can't say for 1988, but I do have the 1991-92 winter timetable if that helps. This shows between 1700 - 1900:

1702 to Portsmouth Harbour via Eastleigh, all stations from Farnborough.

1708 to Bedhampton, calling Woking, Guildford then all stations.

1715 to Weymouth calling Winchester, SAP, Southampton, Bournemouth, Poole, Wareham then all stations.

1718 to Alton, all stations from Woking.

1720 to Portsmouth Harbour via Guildford, calling Guildford, Farncombe, Godalming, Haslemere, Petersfield, Havant then all stations from Havant.

1723 to Eastleigh, all stations from Woking

1725 to Farnham, all stations from Surbiton

1730 to Yeovil Junction calling at Basingstoke then all stations.

1732 to Portsmouth / Bournemouth all stations from Basingstoke splitting at Eastleigh. Portsmouth all stations. Bournemouth was SAP, Southampton,
Totton, Brockenhurst then all stations.

1734 to Basingstoke, calling at Woking then all stations from Farnborough.

1738 to Portsmouth Harbour via Guildford, calling Woking, Guildford then all stations.

1742 to Farnham, same pattern at 1725

1745 to Weymouth calling Basingstoke, SAP, Southampton, Brockenhurst, New Milton, Christchurch, then all stations from Bournemouth.

1748 to Alton, same pattern as 1718.

1756 to Portsmouth / Poole splitting at Eastleigh, same calling pattern as the 1732.

1758 to Southampton, all stations from Farnborough.

1806 to Haslemere, all stations from Woking.

1815 to Exeter St Davids, calling at Woking then all stations except Pinhoe (Pinhoe at the time was the least important station on the route, but due to
population growth is now more important than Feniton and Whimple).

1815 to Haslemere, calling Clapham Junction, Woking, Wimbledon, Surbiton, then all stations from Woking.

1818 to Alton, same pattern as 1718

1820 to Portsmouth Harbour via Guildford, calling Clapham Junction, Woking, Guildford, Godalming, Haslemere then all stations.

1823 to Basingstoke, all stations from Woking.

1832 to Weymouth, same pattern as 1715 plus Basingstoke and Brockenhurst.

1834 to Portsmouth Harbour via Guildford, same calling pattern as 1738.

1836 to Alton, standard pattern plus Walton-on-Thames, Weybridge and West Byfleet.

1842 to Basingstoke, all stations from Woking.

1845 to Poole, same pattern as 1745 plus Clapham Junction, Woking, Eastleigh and Pokesdown.

1850 to Portsmouth Harbour via Guildford, same calling pattern as 1720 except Farncombe omitted.

1900 to Alton, standard pattern plus Clapham Junction.

There seems to be a lull in fast services around 1800 - no idea why.

Appreciate this isn't 1988, but shows what it was like within a few years.

Don't know about 1987, but my understanding is that prior to electrification, the standard pattern on the Bournemouth route was 3 tph - one calling at Southampton and Bournemouth then all stations to Weymouth, one semi-fast (presumably much like the current Weymouth hourly slow service) and one stopper. Save for XC services, there was only 1 tph west of Bournemouth. The change from 4REP to 33 at Bournemouth was rather time-consuming and I doubt there was much appetite to increase the frequency of the procedure. It might have been different in the peaks though.

Many thanks for those. I do have a moderately clear memory of 1991 but this fills in some gaps, and we can see that the 'typical 90s pattern' is basically there. In summer 1991, the 1758 Southampton was notable for being an unusual 'HAP sandwich' (VEP+HAP+VEP) though in Sep 1991 the HAPs were withdrawn from the South Western meaning many peak services were reduced in length.

The Sep 1994 WTT shows a 1758 Guildford stopper (Surbiton then all), I presume something similar was present in 1991? Otherwise it would be a big gap in stopping services after Surbiton.
Likewise presumably the 1750(ish) fast to Portsmouth also ran as that was a mainstay of the pre-2004 railway.

@jfollows and @JonathanH many thanks for your 1988 and 1989 contributions, will reply in due course (might be tomorrow now).

 

[jfollows]

I have the preceding year’s (87-88) WTT also, with which I’ll also look at some of your specific questions tomorrow.

 

[75A]

I can't say for 1988, but I do have the 1991-92 winter timetable if that helps. This shows between 1700 - 1900:

1702 to Portsmouth Harbour via Eastleigh, all stations from Farnborough.

1708 to Bedhampton, calling Woking, Guildford then all stations.

1715 to Weymouth calling Winchester, SAP, Southampton, Bournemouth, Poole, Wareham then all stations.

1718 to Alton, all stations from Woking.

1720 to Portsmouth Harbour via Guildford, calling Guildford, Farncombe, Godalming, Haslemere, Petersfield, Havant then all stations from Havant.

1723 to Eastleigh, all stations from Woking

1725 to Farnham, all stations from Surbiton

1730 to Yeovil Junction calling at Basingstoke then all stations.

1732 to Portsmouth / Bournemouth all stations from Basingstoke splitting at Eastleigh. Portsmouth all stations. Bournemouth was SAP, Southampton,
Totton, Brockenhurst then all stations.

1734 to Basingstoke, calling at Woking then all stations from Farnborough.

1738 to Portsmouth Harbour via Guildford, calling Woking, Guildford then all stations.

1742 to Farnham, same pattern at 1725

1745 to Weymouth calling Basingstoke, SAP, Southampton, Brockenhurst, New Milton, Christchurch, then all stations from Bournemouth.

1748 to Alton, same pattern as 1718.

1756 to Portsmouth / Poole splitting at Eastleigh, same calling pattern as the 1732.

1758 to Southampton, all stations from Farnborough.

1806 to Haslemere, all stations from Woking.

1815 to Exeter St Davids, calling at Woking then all stations except Pinhoe (Pinhoe at the time was the least important station on the route, but due to
population growth is now more important than Feniton and Whimple).

1815 to Haslemere, calling Clapham Junction, Woking, Wimbledon, Surbiton, then all stations from Woking.

1818 to Alton, same pattern as 1718

1820 to Portsmouth Harbour via Guildford, calling Clapham Junction, Woking, Guildford, Godalming, Haslemere then all stations.

1823 to Basingstoke, all stations from Woking.

1832 to Weymouth, same pattern as 1715 plus Basingstoke and Brockenhurst.

1834 to Portsmouth Harbour via Guildford, same calling pattern as 1738.

1836 to Alton, standard pattern plus Walton-on-Thames, Weybridge and West Byfleet.

1842 to Basingstoke, all stations from Woking.

1845 to Poole, same pattern as 1745 plus Clapham Junction, Woking, Eastleigh and Pokesdown.

1850 to Portsmouth Harbour via Guildford, same calling pattern as 1720 except Farncombe omitted.

1900 to Alton, standard pattern plus Clapham Junction.

There seems to be a lull in fast services around 1800 - no idea why.

Appreciate this isn't 1988, but shows what it was like within a few years.

Don't know about 1987, but my understanding is that prior to electrification, the standard pattern on the Bournemouth route was 3 tph - one calling at Southampton and Bournemouth then all stations to Weymouth, one semi-fast (presumably much like the current Weymouth hourly slow service) and one stopper. Save for XC services, there was only 1 tph west of Bournemouth. The change from 4REP to 33 at Bournemouth was rather time-consuming and I doubt there was much appetite to increase the frequency of the procedure. It might have been different in the peaks though.

Don't see how the 17:08 can terminate @ Bedhampton, surely it must go at least to Fratton and probably to the Town or Harbour.

 

[jfollows]

Don't see how the 17:08 can terminate @ Bedhampton, surely it must go at least to Fratton and probably to the Town or Harbour.

Headcode 5 to Southampton, it's just that in the public timetable used its last stop was Bedhampton.

 

[75A]

Headcode 5 to Southampton, it's just that in the public timetable used its last stop was Bedhampton.

Thank you, that explains that then.

 

[JonathanH]

Headcode 5 to Southampton, it's just that in the public timetable used its last stop was Bedhampton.

Thank you, that explains that then.

Yes, it ran through to Southampton calling at Cosham, Porchester, Fareham, Swanwick and Netley. There were two corresponding up services as well, leaving Southampton Central at 0630 and 0720, presumably as part of establishing service patterns after the Solent Link electrification,

 

[nw1]

I have the preceding year’s (87-88) WTT also, with which I’ll also look at some of your specific questions tomorrow.

Many thanks. Will comment more tomorrow, but 1988 is an interesting hybrid of the typical 80s and typical 90s patterns.

Thank you, that explains that then.

Yes, I remember that one (1708 Waterloo-Southampton via Havant in 1991); was formed 8VEP. A similar service existed in 1990 on electrification but might have departed at a different time, perhaps 1720; the 1990 peak service was more like that of 1989 on the Direct, IIRC. I remember the 1991 version then working the 1950 Southampton-Waterloo '93' stopper on arrival.

 

[jfollows]

Would also be interesting to see a 1987 pattern for comparison if anyone has that. I clearly remember the 1985 pattern, but can't completely remember whether that pattern was still in place by 1987.

11/5/87 to 15/5/88:

17:00 62 EML Salisbury & Eastleigh, Woking Farnborough Fleet Basingstoke, splits, Winchester Eastleigh
17:06 75 Guildford, Surbiton and all stations
17:10 81 Portsmouth, first stop Woking
17:12 63 Basingstoke, Woking then all stations
17:12 10 Woking, SL Clapham Wimbledon Surbiton and all stations
17:16 92 ED280 Bournemouth, Winchester and Southampton only, Bournemouth arrive 19:10
17:18 52 Alton, Woking then all stations
17:20 82 Portsmouth, first stop Woking
17:24 93 Eastleigh, Farnborough then all stations
17:26 53 Farnham, Surbiton then all stations
17:30 91 Weymouth, Winchester Parkway Southampton Brockenhurst Bournemouth
17:32 81 Portsmouth, first stop Woking
17:34 63 Basingstoke, Woking then all stations
17:36 10 Woking, Surbiton then all stations
17:38 1V17 D350 Exeter, first stop Basingstoke
17:40 82 Portsmouth, first stop Woking
17:44 92 Bournemouth, Woking Basingstoke Winchester Eastleigh Parkway Southampton Brockenhurst then all stations
17:46 53 Farnham, Surbiton then all stations
17:48 52 Alton, first stop Brookwood then all stations
17:50 81 Portsmouth, first stop Woking
17:54 93 Eaastleigh, Woking Farnborough then all stations
17:56 10 Woking, Surbiton then all stations
18:00 72 Fratton, West Byfleet Woking
18:08 75 Guildford, Surbiton then all stations
18:10 62 EML Yeovil & Bournemouth, Farnborough Fleet Basingstoke, splits, 93 onwards omits Shawford Parkway otherwise all stations
18:13 52 Alton, first stop Ash Vale
18:15 82 Portsmouth, first stop Woking
18:17 63 Basingstoke, Surbiton Woking then all stations
18p19 73 Portsmouth & Southsea, Clapham Wimbledon Surbiton and all stations
18:32 91 Weymouth, Winchester Parkway Southampton Bournemouth then all stations, to Weymouth Quay UNTIL 25 SEP
18:34 72 Fratton, Walton Weybridge West Byfleet Woking
18:42 93 Bournemouth & Alton, Surbiton Woking, splits, then all stations
18:44 92 ED280 Bournemouth, Clapham (U) Woking Basingstoke Winchester Eastleigh Parkway Southampton Brockenhurst New Milton Christchurch
18:48 75 Guildford, Clapham Wimbledon Surbiton then all stations
18:55 81 Portsmouth, first stop Woking

EDIT EML - in both cases 33+4-TC on the front, 8-VEP on the rear (from memory, could be 4+4 or 8+4). The front unit for the 18:10 came empty from Clapham Junction after operating the Olympia shuttle so was 4-TC for sure.

The Sep 1994 WTT shows a 1758 Guildford stopper (Surbiton then all), I presume something similar was present in 1991? Otherwise it would be a big gap in stopping services after Surbiton.
Likewise presumably the 1750(ish) fast to Portsmouth also ran as that was a mainstay of the pre-2004 railway.

1990 had:
17:43 53 Farnham, Surbiton 17:59 then all stations
17:54 73 Haslemere, Surbiton 18:10 then all stations to Woking
18:08 75 Guildford, Surbiton 18:24 then all stations to Woking

EDIT Winter 1991 had
17:42 53 Farnham, Surbiton 17:57 then all stations
17:54 75 Guildford, Surbiton 18:10 then all stations to Woking
18:08 75 Guildford, Surbiton 18:24 then all stations to Woking
18:15 73 Haslemere, SL Clapham Wimbledon Surbiton 18:34 then all stations to Woking

Sorry, another enquiry on the late-20th-century SWML...

Does anyone have any WTTs from 1988, immediately at Weymouth electrification? I have the feeling someone did, but not totally sure.

Would also be interested to know when the Cobham line peak services switched from the fast to the slow lines.

Thanks.

I only have the main line (WG) WTTs, this information is in the suburban (WH) ones which I don’t have.

 

[nw1]

11/5/87 to 15/5/88:

17:00 62 EML Salisbury & Eastleigh, Woking Farnborough Fleet Basingstoke, splits, Winchester Eastleigh
17:06 75 Guildford, Surbiton and all stations
17:10 81 Portsmouth, first stop Woking
17:12 63 Basingstoke, Woking then all stations
17:12 10 Woking, SL Clapham Wimbledon Surbiton and all stations
17:16 92 ED280 Bournemouth, Winchester and Southampton only, Bournemouth arrive 19:10
17:18 52 Alton, Woking then all stations
17:20 82 Portsmouth, first stop Woking
17:24 93 Eastleigh, Farnborough then all stations
17:26 53 Farnham, Surbiton then all stations
17:30 91 Weymouth, Winchester Parkway Southampton Brockenhurst Bournemouth
17:32 81 Portsmouth, first stop Woking
17:34 63 Basingstoke, Woking then all stations
17:36 10 Woking, Surbiton then all stations
17:38 1V17 D350 Exeter, first stop Basingstoke
17:40 82 Portsmouth, first stop Woking
17:44 92 Bournemouth, Woking Basingstoke Winchester Eastleigh Parkway Southampton Brockenhurst then all stations
17:46 53 Farnham, Surbiton then all stations
17:48 52 Alton, first stop Brookwood then all stations
17:50 81 Portsmouth, first stop Woking
17:54 93 Eaastleigh, Woking Farnborough then all stations
17:56 10 Woking, Surbiton then all stations
18:00 72 Fratton, West Byfleet Woking
18:08 75 Guildford, Surbiton then all stations
18:10 62 EML Yeovil & Bournemouth, Farnborough Fleet Basingstoke, splits, 93 onwards omits Shawford Parkway otherwise all stations
18:13 52 Alton, first stop Ash Vale
18:15 82 Portsmouth, first stop Woking
18:17 63 Basingstoke, Surbiton Woking then all stations
18p19 73 Portsmouth & Southsea, Clapham Wimbledon Surbiton and all stations
18:32 91 Weymouth, Winchester Parkway Southampton Bournemouth then all stations, to Weymouth Quay UNTIL 25 SEP
18:34 72 Fratton, Walton Weybridge West Byfleet Woking
18:42 93 Bournemouth & Alton, Surbiton Woking, splits, then all stations
18:44 92 ED280 Bournemouth, Clapham (U) Woking Basingstoke Winchester Eastleigh Parkway Southampton Brockenhurst New Milton Christchurch
18:48 75 Guildford, Clapham Wimbledon Surbiton then all stations
18:55 81 Portsmouth, first stop Woking

EDIT EML - in both cases 33+4-TC on the front, 8-VEP on the rear (from memory, could be 4+4 or 8+4). The front unit for the 18:10 came empty from Clapham Junction after operating the Olympia shuttle so was 4-TC for sure.

Thanks for those. To unpick a bit: the 1987 pattern looks very like the 1985 pattern which I remember clearly, including the 33+TC+VEP dividers and the 1738 Exeter - and not too dissimilar to the 1983 pattern (the small changes in 1985 versus earlier in the 80s involved Alton being reduced from 3tph to 2tph - the 1718, 1748 and 1813 shown here - and the termination points of the 10-minutely stoppers from Surbiton changed).

Thus I would speculate that the 1738 Exeter was formed off the afternoon 50-hauled Portsmouth-Waterloo, due Guildford around 1630.

The one feature which wasn't present in 1985 is the 1716 Bournemouth express, this looks like a new innovation. Interesting it (and the 1844) were 73-hauled rather than the more familiar REP/TC combo.

As a result of the new 1716, the old 1716 (a Woking stopper) moved to the slow lines and departed at 1712, it appears.

But overall, 1987 was the last timetable of the "classic 80s pattern" and 1988 started the transition to the 90s pattern. But will unpick the others later...

 

[jfollows]

The one feature which wasn't present in 1985 is the 1716 Bournemouth express, this looks like a new innovation. Interesting it (and the 1844) were 73-hauled rather than the more familiar REP/TC combo.

I think they were 73+3-REP + 4-TC + 4-TC or something like that with the 73 replacing one of the REP power cars (which was away having its motors removed and destined for a 442).
EDIT Although 73 + 3-REP did exist, https://www.bloodandcustard.com/BR-3TC-4TC-4REP-Bournemouth-1966.html says only from December 1987 to May 1988. The Web page gives a comprehensive history of the various modifications to REP and TC units at the end of their lives.

 

[miklcct]

One of the substantial changes in 1990 was Solent Link electrification, which led to the additional Portsmouth Harbour via Eastleigh services.

To show that, Summer 1989 is somewhat different from what is posted above, but closer to 1988

From the public timetable, 1989 had, from 1600 to 1900

1605 Southampton, calling at Clapham Junction, Surbiton, Woking and all stations to Southampton
1610 Alton, calling at Surbiton, Walton-on-Thames, Weybridge, West Byfleet and all stations to Alton
1615 Basingstoke, calling at Clapham Junction, Woking and Basingstoke
1620 Portsmouth Harbour, calling at Clapham Junction, Woking, Guildford and all stations to Portsmouth Harbour
1622 Guildford, calling at Clapham Junction, Wimbledon, Surbiton and all stations to Guildford via Woking
1632 Weymouth, calling at Southampton Airport, Southampton, Brockenhurst, Bournemouth and all stations to Weymouth
1635 Eastleigh, calling at Clapham Junction, Wimbledon, Surbiton, Woking and all stations to Eastleigh
1640 Salisbury, calling at Clapham Junction, Basingstoke and all stations to Salisbury
1645 Poole, calling at Clapham Junction, Woking, Basingstoke, Winchester, Eastleigh, Southampton Airport, Southampton, Totton, Brockenhurst, New Milton, Christchurch and all stations to Poole
1648 Alton, calling at Woking and all stations to Alton
1650 Portsmouth Harbour, calling at Guildford, Haslemere, Petersfield, Havant, Portsmouth & Southsea and Portsmouth Harbour
1652 Farnham, calling at Clapham Junction, Wimbledon, Surbiton and all stations to Farnham
1658 Portsmouth & Southsea, calling at Woking, Guildford and all stations to Portsmouth & Southsea
1700 Southampton, calling at Woking, Farnborough and all stations to Southampton
1705 Exeter St Davids, calling at Basingstoke, Whitchurch, Andover, Salisbury, all stations to Honiton, Exeter Central and Exeter St Davids
1708 Portsmouth Harbour, calling at Woking, Worplesdon, Guildford, Godalming, Haslemere, Liphook, Liss, Petersfield, Havant, Bedhampton, Fratton, Portsmouth & Southsea and Portsmouth Harbour
1710 Guildford, calling at Wimbledon, Surbiton and all stations to Guildford via Woking
1715 Weymouth and Poole, calling at Winchester, Southampton Parkway, Southampton, dividing for Bournemouth, Poole, Wareham and all stations to Weymouth, and for Totton, Lyndhurst Road, Brockenhurst and all stations to Poole
1718 Alton, calling at Woking and all stations to Alton
1720 Portsmouth Harbour, calling at Woking, Guildford, all stations to Havant, Fratton, Portsmouth & Southsea and Portsmouth Harbour
1724 Eastleigh, calling at Woking, Farnborough, all stations to Basingstoke, Winchester, Shawford and Eastleigh
1726 Farnham, calling at Surbiton and all stations to Farnham
1730 Bournemouth, calling at Woking, Basingstoke, Micheldever, Winchester, Southampton Parkway, Southampton, Brockenhurst, New Milton, Christchurch and Bournemouth
1732 Portsmouth Harbour, calling at Woking, Guildford, Godalming, Haslemere, Petersfield, Havant, Bedhampton, Fratton, Portsmouth & Southsea and Portsmouth Harbour
1734 Yeovil Junction, calling at Farnborough, Fleet, Basingstoke and all stations to Yeovil Junction
1736 Basingstoke, calling at Walton-on-Thames, Weybridge, West Byfleet, Woking and all stations to Basingstoke
1740 Portsmouth & Southsea, calling at Woking and all stations to Portsmouth & Southsea
1743 Farnham, calling at Surbiton and all stations to Farnham
1745 Weymouth, calling at Woking, Basingstoke, Winchester, Eastleigh, Southampton Parkway, Southampton, Totton, Brockenhurst, Bournemouth, Branksome, Parkstone, Poole, Hamworthy, Wareham and all stations to Weymouth
1748 Alton, calling at Brookwood and all stations to Alton
1750 Portsmouth Harbour, calling at Woking, Guildford, Godalming, Haslemere, Petersfield, Havant, Fratton, Portsmouth & Southsea and Portsmouth Harbour
1754 Poole, calling at Woking, Farnborough and all stations to Poole
1756 Haslemere, calling at Surbiton and all stations to Haslemere via Woking
1758 Haslemere, calling at Worplesdon and all stations to Haslemere
1800 Poole, calling at Woking, Basingstoke, Micheldever, Winchester, Eastleigh, Southampton Parkway, Southampton, Brockenhurst and all stations to Poole
1805 Basingstoke, calling at Clapham Junction, Woking, Farnborough and all stations to Basingstoke
1808 Guildford, calling at Surbiton, all stations to Woking, and Guildford
1811 Portsmouth Harbour, calling at Woking, Guildford, Godalming, Haslemere and all stations to Portsmouth Harbour
1815 Exeter St Davids, calling at Woking, Basingstoke, all stations to Feniton, Exeter Central and Exeter St Davids
1815 Portsmouth Harbour, calling at Clapham Junction, Wimbledon, Surbiton and all stations to Portsmouth Harbour
1818 Alton, calling at Woking, Ash Vale and all stations to Alton
1820 Basingstoke, calling at Surbiton, Woking, and all stations to Basingstoke
1827 Portsmouth Harbour, calling at Woking, Guildford, all stations to Havant, Hilsea and all stations to Portsmouth Harbour
1832 Weymouth, calling at Winchester, Southampton Parkway, Southampton, Brockenhurst, Bournemouth, Poole and all stations to Weymouth
1834 Alton, calling at Walton-on-Thames, Weybridge, West Byfleet and all stations to Alton
1840 Salisbury, calling at Basingstoke and all stations to Salisbury
1842 Basingstoke, calling at Clapham Junction, Surbiton, Woking and all stations to Basingstoke
1845 Guildford, calling at Clapham Junction, Wimbledon, Surbiton and all stations to Guildford via Woking
1850 Portsmouth Harbour, calling at Woking, Guildford, Godalming, Haslemere, Petersfield, Havant, Fratton, Portsmouth & Southsea and Portsmouth Harbour

The 1715 was "The Royal Wessex". The 1650 was "The Victory"

So there was 4 tph to Bournemouth compared to the current 2.

When did the current xx:05 / xx:35 to Weymouth / Poole start?

 

[nw1]

16/5/88 to 14/5/89:

A bit of analysis now on 1988 and how it compares to 1987 (and before).

17:00 93 Poole FL to Woking platform 4, Farnborough and all stations, overtaken at Basingstoke by 17:15

The famous Salisbury/Eastleigh divider (33+4TC+8VEP) which had run since 1983, and at a different time before that, comes to an end, presumably as a knock-on of the Weymouth electrification. The 1712 Basingstoke also disappears, so the new 1700 picks up its stops.

17:06 1V17 D315 Exeter first stop Basingstoke

A retimed Exeter by the looks of it, with the former pattern at 1638 and 1738.

17:09 81 Portsmouth, first stop Woking

A long-standing service, running one minute earlier. The Portsmouth Direct was basically unchanged in 1988, so I won't comment further on Direct services/

17:11 75 Guildford, Wimbledon then SL Surbiton

A slight retiming of the 1706. The following slow, the 1712, formerly 1716 to Woking, is gone, presumably to make way for the Royal Wessex.

17p16 91 THE ROYAL WESSEX to Weymouth & Wareham, first stop Winchester, Southampton Parkway, splits at Southampton.

Brand new of course, one of the flagship services of the Weymouth electrification. Public time 1715. With the 1745, offers a better spread of fast services in the peak. The loss of the 1712 Basingstoke was presumably to allow the Royal Wessex to be inserted into the timetable

17:18 52 Alton, Woking then SL

A long standing service, unchanged.

17:20 82 Portsmouth, first stop Woking
17:24 93 Eastleigh, first stop Farnborough then SL all stations

Another long standing service though formerly missed Winchfield and Hook. Presumably the stops added due to the loss of the 1712.

17:26 53 Farnham, Surbiton then SL all stations

Unchanged.

17:30 92 Bournemouth, Woking Basingstoke Micheldever Winchester Parkway Southampton

A new semi-fast service, in between the two fasts at 1715 and 1745. A service at a similar time existed through the 90s, though was latterly diverted to Portsmouth.

17:32 81 Portsmouth, pass Woking 17/58

Formerly called Woking.

17:34 1L13 D315 Salisbury, Farnborough Fleet Basingstoke

A new service; it looks like the Exeter route was substantially revised.

17:36 63 Basingstoke, SL Hampton Court Junction, Walton Weybridge West Byfleet and all stations

A similar 1734 had existed for a long time, however that was fast to Woking. The re-jigging of times has led to the loss of the 1736 stopper to Woking, so this is presumably covering for that.

17:40 82 Portsmouth, first stop Woking
17:44 53 Farnham, Surbiton then all stations, overtaken by 17:48

Formerly 1746 but essentially the same service.

17p46 Weymouth, Woking Basingstoke Winchester Eastleigh Parkway

I'm sure I remember this being an express service, with similar calling pattern to the 1715, but maybe it only became one in the 90s?

17:48 52 Alton, SL after Woking but first stop Brookwood
17:50 81 Portsmouth, first stop Woking
17:54 93 Eastleigh, Woking Farnborough and all stations
17:56 10 Woking, first stop Surbiton

All four unchanged since 1985.

17:58 FO Poole, Basingstoke WInchester Eastleigh Parkway

A new one, don't remember this at all but obviously it existed!

18:00 72 Fratton, West Byfleet Woking
18:06 93 Poole, SL before Woking Farnborough Fleet Basingstoke Micheldever Winchester Eastleigh

A long standing service but no longer carried a Salisbury portion, also now extended to Poole.

18:08 75 Guildford, Surbiton and all stations

Another long-standing service.

18:10 1V18 Exeter D315 Basingstoke

Part of the retimed Exeter route, this was presumably formed off the Portsmouth-Waterloo 50-hauled service.

18:13 52 Alton, SL after Woking first call Ash Vale

Another service in place since 1985.

18:15 82 Portsmouth, first call Woking

Had been 1820 for a long time, now retimed.

18:17 63 Basingstoke, Surbiton Woking and all stations
18p19 83 Portsmouth, Clapham Wimbledon Surbiton and all stations
18:30 Weymouth, Winchester Parkway Southampton
18:32 72 Fratton, first stop Woking

All much as before.

18:34 52 Alton, Walton Weybridge Woking Ash Vale
18p37 93 Bournemouth, Clapham Surbiton Woking and all stations

These two were formerly one service which divided at Woking, as can be seen in the 1987 pattern above. Presumably even a 12-coach service was insufficient for the passenger loadings. An early taste of the 1989 timetable, in which the Basingstoke and Alton services ran separately all day.

The 1834 to Alton, with its unusual calling pattern, would remain in one form or another throughout the 90s.

18:42 62 D140 Salisbury, first stop Basingstoke

Another new Salisbury line service.

18:45 Poole, Clapham Woking Basingstoke Winchester Eastleigh Parkway
18:48 75 Guildford, Clapham Wimbledon Surbiton and all stations
18:55 81 Portsmouth, first stop Woking

All much as before.

So overall, while the 1988 timetable shows significant changes, you can see the old pattern is still there and it's been shifted about to allow for new services on the Weymouth route. However you can also see clear signs of the 90s pattern emerging, which was not dissimilar to this (with an important exception of the Portsmouth Direct, which I will discuss later).

There is a loss of two stopping services to Woking (1712, formerly 1716, and 1736) with the 4tph stopping service pattern which would define the 90s appearing, replacing the former 6tph pattern. Also, the loss of the 1712 Basingstoke but more in the way of fast services down the SWML (at 1715, 1730 and 1745) and the Salisbury route looks better overall, half hourly throughout the 1700-1900 period. All a sign of a growth of longer-distance commuting and a reduction of stopping services to make way for more long-distance services?

One of the substantial changes in 1990 was Solent Link electrification, which led to the additional Portsmouth Harbour via Eastleigh services.

To show that, Summer 1989 is somewhat different from what is posted above, but closer to 1988

From the public timetable, 1989 had, from 1600 to 1900

Sorry, auto-merge has turned this into a very long post. The comments below relate to 1989:

Some comments on the 1989 timetable. Of all the years I've been using the Waterloo lines (i.e. since 1982), I always thought that 1989 (and 1990) represented the peak of service. The early/mid NSE period was a time of significant service improvements and electrifications, plus the era had a very varied range of stock, from HAPs to 442s and everything in between - and you even had such things as 73s+TCs on some '93' stoppers.

1605 Southampton, calling at Clapham Junction, Surbiton, Woking and all stations to Southampton
1610 Alton, calling at Surbiton, Walton-on-Thames, Weybridge, West Byfleet and all stations to Alton
1615 Basingstoke, calling at Clapham Junction, Woking and Basingstoke

This one's coming back to me now. On two or three occasions in late 1989 and early 1990 I had cause to change trains at Woking station, and remained on the station for around 40 mins from approximately 1605 to 1645. Normally the xx15 would be an Exeter or Salisbury, however there was not one at this time, so this rare fast Basingstoke terminator plugged the gap. I'm sure it was formed CIG+BEP+CIG, and I would strongly hazard a guess that it then worked back to Waterloo to form the 1827 Portsmouth service, a service which for many years was formed CIG/BEP/CIG but was an additional to the normal 4 off-peak diagrams using such a formation on the Direct.

1620 Portsmouth Harbour, calling at Clapham Junction, Woking, Guildford and all stations to Portsmouth Harbour

The train I would then catch from Woking. Was formed 4HAP+4VEP, and retained that formation until the HAPs left the "South Western" in September 1991.

1622 Guildford, calling at Clapham Junction, Wimbledon, Surbiton and all stations to Guildford via Woking

Most years this would continue to Portsmouth, however not this year (see below).

1632 Weymouth, calling at Southampton Airport, Southampton, Brockenhurst, Bournemouth and all stations to Weymouth
1635 Eastleigh, calling at Clapham Junction, Wimbledon, Surbiton, Woking and all stations to Eastleigh
1640 Salisbury, calling at Clapham Junction, Basingstoke and all stations to Salisbury

As discussed in the Exeter thread, this was unusually formed of a 50 hauling TC stock.

1645 Poole, calling at Clapham Junction, Woking, Basingstoke, Winchester, Eastleigh, Southampton Airport, Southampton, Totton, Brockenhurst, New Milton, Christchurch and all stations to Poole
1648 Alton, calling at Woking and all stations to Alton
1650 Portsmouth Harbour, calling at Guildford, Haslemere, Petersfield, Havant, Portsmouth & Southsea and Portsmouth Harbour
1652 Farnham, calling at Clapham Junction, Wimbledon, Surbiton and all stations to Farnham
1658 Portsmouth & Southsea, calling at Woking, Guildford and all stations to Portsmouth & Southsea

I'd forgotten about this one until now, but it's now come back to me. A brand new service, which didn't exist earlier in the 80s, or, indeed, the late 70s. Taking the path the 1622 stopper normally occupied south of Guildford, this was a new early-peak fast service to Guildford which helped provide a 10-min interval service down the Direct from 1650 to 1811. In 1989 (and 1990) the Direct had its best ever peak service post-1977 - a shame that the 1991 timetable was one of quite drastic peak cuts on the line.

If I was to hazard a guess, I'd speculate that this was a 4-car service (I don't think I ever saw it) as it was brand new and not far behind the 1650.

1700 Southampton, calling at Woking, Farnborough and all stations to Southampton
1705 Exeter St Davids, calling at Basingstoke, Whitchurch, Andover, Salisbury, all stations to Honiton, Exeter Central and Exeter St Davids
1708 Portsmouth Harbour, calling at Woking, Worplesdon, Guildford, Godalming, Haslemere, Liphook, Liss, Petersfield, Havant, Bedhampton, Fratton, Portsmouth & Southsea and Portsmouth Harbour
1710 Guildford, calling at Wimbledon, Surbiton and all stations to Guildford via Woking
1715 Weymouth and Poole, calling at Winchester, Southampton Parkway, Southampton, dividing for Bournemouth, Poole, Wareham and all stations to Weymouth, and for Totton, Lyndhurst Road, Brockenhurst and all stations to Poole
1718 Alton, calling at Woking and all stations to Alton
1720 Portsmouth Harbour, calling at Woking, Guildford, all stations to Havant, Fratton, Portsmouth & Southsea and Portsmouth Harbour
1724 Eastleigh, calling at Woking, Farnborough, all stations to Basingstoke, Winchester, Shawford and Eastleigh
1726 Farnham, calling at Surbiton and all stations to Farnham
1730 Bournemouth, calling at Woking, Basingstoke, Micheldever, Winchester, Southampton Parkway, Southampton, Brockenhurst, New Milton, Christchurch and Bournemouth
1732 Portsmouth Harbour, calling at Woking, Guildford, Godalming, Haslemere, Petersfield, Havant, Bedhampton, Fratton, Portsmouth & Southsea and Portsmouth Harbour
1734 Yeovil Junction, calling at Farnborough, Fleet, Basingstoke and all stations to Yeovil Junction
1736 Basingstoke, calling at Walton-on-Thames, Weybridge, West Byfleet, Woking and all stations to Basingstoke
1740 Portsmouth & Southsea, calling at Woking and all stations to Portsmouth & Southsea
1743 Farnham, calling at Surbiton and all stations to Farnham
1745 Weymouth, calling at Woking, Basingstoke, Winchester, Eastleigh, Southampton Parkway, Southampton, Totton, Brockenhurst, Bournemouth, Branksome, Parkstone, Poole, Hamworthy, Wareham and all stations to Weymouth
1748 Alton, calling at Brookwood and all stations to Alton
1750 Portsmouth Harbour, calling at Woking, Guildford, Godalming, Haslemere, Petersfield, Havant, Fratton, Portsmouth & Southsea and Portsmouth Harbour
1754 Poole, calling at Woking, Farnborough and all stations to Poole
1756 Haslemere, calling at Surbiton and all stations to Haslemere via Woking

An unusual peak-hour '73', this connecting, I think, out of the 1811 at Guildford. I saw this once in summer 1989 terminating at Haslemere when it was a solitary VEP. Presumably the rest of the formation was detached at Guildford, as 4 cars would absolutely be insufficient for a service leaving Waterloo at this time!

1758 Haslemere, calling at Worplesdon and all stations to Haslemere

Formerly a Fratton service, now retimed slightly, skipping West Byfleet and Woking, and terminating Haslemere. Thus, two services terminated there in the peak, up from zero in previous years.

1800 Poole, calling at Woking, Basingstoke, Micheldever, Winchester, Eastleigh, Southampton Parkway, Southampton, Brockenhurst and all stations to Poole

One of the nice features of 1989 was evidently the effort to provide a 15-minutely clockface service down the SWML, with departure times at 1715, 1730, 1745, and 1800. This I believe was the route's best ever peak fast or semi-fast pattern. I would guess that the 1715 and 1745 were 442s and the 1730 and 1800 were residual TC/REP stock, perhaps even 73-hauled, but not sure.

1805 Basingstoke, calling at Clapham Junction, Woking, Farnborough and all stations to Basingstoke

A new Basingstoke stopper, though basically the old 1806 Bournemouth making extra stops and terminating at Basingstoke, with the 1800 above covering the line beyond Basingstoke.

1808 Guildford, calling at Surbiton, all stations to Woking, and Guildford
1811 Portsmouth Harbour, calling at Woking, Guildford, Godalming, Haslemere and all stations to Portsmouth Harbour

A brand new service, the old 1815 (formerly 1820), formed of the 'extra' CIG/BEP/CIG formation, now departing 1827.

1815 Exeter St Davids, calling at Woking, Basingstoke, all stations to Feniton, Exeter Central and Exeter St Davids
1815 Portsmouth Harbour, calling at Clapham Junction, Wimbledon, Surbiton and all stations to Portsmouth Harbour
1818 Alton, calling at Woking, Ash Vale and all stations to Alton

Some rejigging here. The 1818 had departed at 1813 from 1985-88. The Woking stop was new. It retained this 1818 slot, IIRC, until 2004.

1820 Basingstoke, calling at Surbiton, Woking, and all stations to Basingstoke
1827 Portsmouth Harbour, calling at Woking, Guildford, all stations to Havant, Hilsea and all stations to Portsmouth Harbour

See multiple comments above. I would guess this was formed from the same stock as the 1615, see above.

1832 Weymouth, calling at Winchester, Southampton Parkway, Southampton, Brockenhurst, Bournemouth, Poole and all stations to Weymouth
1834 Alton, calling at Walton-on-Thames, Weybridge, West Byfleet and all stations to Alton
1840 Salisbury, calling at Basingstoke and all stations to Salisbury
1842 Basingstoke, calling at Clapham Junction, Surbiton, Woking and all stations to Basingstoke
1845 Guildford, calling at Clapham Junction, Wimbledon, Surbiton and all stations to Guildford via Woking
1850 Portsmouth Harbour, calling at Woking, Guildford, Godalming, Haslemere, Petersfield, Havant, Fratton, Portsmouth & Southsea and Portsmouth Harbour

The 1715 was "The Royal Wessex". The 1650 was "The Victory"

Was there not an 1855 Alton fast (Clapham, Woking and all stations)? I remember the 1989 off-peak pattern featured an xx55 departure with this calling pattern.

Overall, fairly similar to 1988 but with some tidying-up and rejigging, and improvements down the Portsmouth Direct.

Not sure if anyone has the full 1990 pattern, but ISTR it being almost identical to 1989 except the 1730 and 1800 were retimed slightly earlier and now conveyed Portsmouth via Fareham portions; there was also a 1700 Portsmouth via Fareham (non-stop to Basingstoke) with the former 1700 stopper retimed to 1702.

 

[jfollows]

I have a summer 1990 WG so can probably provide some input shortly.

 

[nw1]

I have a summer 1990 WG so can probably provide some input shortly.

OK - thanks.

 

[JonathanH]

When did the current xx:05 / xx:35 to Weymouth / Poole start?

December 2004

 

[nw1]

So there was 4 tph to Bournemouth compared to the current 2.

This was only in the peak. In the off-peak there was xx32 fast and xx45 semi-fast.

So the peak was considerably better than now, but the off peak featured two services close to each other, which it had done since electrification in 1967. To be fair, they served slightly different markets, with the xx32 primarily providing a fast service to Southampton and Dorset, and the xx45 serving Basingstoke, Winchester, Eastleigh and medium-importance stations between Southampton and Bournemouth. The xx45 also provided connectivity with Clapham Junction and Woking.

A little later (1993 or 1994?) a 20-min interval service to Southampton was provided, at xx30 (the xx32 slightly retimed), xx50 (the xx45 slightly retimed) and xx10 (terminating at Southampton Central). This lasted until May 1999, when a 15-minutely service at xx30 and xx00 (limited-stop to Southampton Central, to Weymouth and Wareham respectively, IIRC) and xx15 and xx45 (serving the more important intermediate stations to Southampton Central) was provided. The xx15 terminated Southampton Central while the xx45 was looped there to allow the following xx00 to pass, and extended, IIRC, to Poole. The xx30 and xx00 were usually 442s, the xx15 was IIRC a mix of 442s, 159s and CIGs (as was its xx10 predecessor) while the xx45 was CIGs and CEPs. The xx30 and xx00 did almost catch up the preceding xx15 and xx45, however.

 

[jfollows]

1990 (May to September):

17:00 80 Portsmouth, Basingstoke and all stations (headcode 80 repurposed for this route)
17:02 93 Southampton, Woking and all stations
17:05 2V17 D315+ Exeter, first stop Basingstoke
17:08 82 Portsmouth, first stop Woking
17:10 75 Guildford, Wimbledon Surbiton and all stations
17:15 Weymouth & Poole, Winchester Parkway Southampton (split) Bournemouth Poole Wareham then all stations
17:18 51 Alton, Woking then all stations
17:20 5 Southampton, Woking and via Havant
17:24 93 Eastleigh, Woking then all except Brookwood Micheldever
17:26 53 Farnham, Surbiton then all stations
17:30 92 Bournemouth & Fareham, Woking Basingstoke Micheldever Winchester Eastleigh (split)
17:32 81 Portsmouth, first stop Woking
17:34 1V18 D315+ Yeovil, Farnborough Fleet Basingstoke
17:36 63 Basingstoke, Walton Weybridge West Byfleet Woking then all stations
17:40 72 Portsmouth & Southsea, first stop Woking
17:43 53 Farnham, Surbiton then all stations
17:45 Weymouth, Woking Basingstoke Winchester Eastleigh Parkway Southampton
17:48 51 Alton, Brookwood then all stations
17:52 81 Portsmouth, first stop Woking
17:54 73 Haslemere, Surbiton then all stations
17:56 92 Poole & Portsmouth, Woking Farnborough Fleet Basingstoke Micheldever Winchester Eastleigh (split) Parkway Southampton
17:58 72 Haslemere, West Byfleet Woking
18:05 93 Southampton, Clapham Woking Farnborough then all stations
18:08 75 Guildford, Surbiton then all stations
18:11 82 Portsmouth, first stop Woking
18:15 1V19 D315+ Exeter, Woking Basingstoke
18:15 83 Portsmouth, SL Clapham Wimbledon Surbiton then all stations
18:18 51 Alton, Woking Ash Vale then all stations
18:20 63 Basingstoke, Surbiton FL Woking then all stations
18:27 82 Portsmouth, first stop Woking
18:32 Weymouth, Winchester Parkway Southampton Brockenhurst Bournemouth then all stations
18:34 52 Alton, Walton Weybridge West Byfleet Woking then all stations
18:40 1V40 D210+ Yeovil, first stop Basingstoke
18:42 63 Basingstoke, Clapham Surbiton Woking then all stations
18:45 Poole, Clapham Woking Basingstoke Winchester Eastleigh Parkway Southampton
18:45 75 Guildford, SL Clapham Wimbledon Surbiton then all stations
18:50 81 Portsmouth, pass Woking 19/14
19:00 51 Alton, Woking then all stations

 

[nw1]

1990 (May to September):

Thanks for those, so looks very similar indeed to 1989, as I thought I remembered. Did the 1658 to Portsmouth still operate in 1990?

17:00 80 Portsmouth, Basingstoke and all stations (headcode 80 repurposed for this route)
17:02 93 Southampton, Woking and all stations
17:05 2V17 D315+ Exeter, first stop Basingstoke
17:08 82 Portsmouth, first stop Woking
17:10 75 Guildford, Wimbledon Surbiton and all stations
17:15 Weymouth & Poole, Winchester Parkway Southampton (split) Bournemouth Poole Wareham then all stations
17:18 51 Alton, Woking then all stations
17:20 5 Southampton, Woking and via Havant
17:24 93 Eastleigh, Woking then all except Brookwood Micheldever
17:26 53 Farnham, Surbiton then all stations
17:30 92 Bournemouth & Fareham, Woking Basingstoke Micheldever Winchester Eastleigh (split)
17:32 81 Portsmouth, first stop Woking
17:34 1V18 D315+ Yeovil, Farnborough Fleet Basingstoke
17:36 63 Basingstoke, Walton Weybridge West Byfleet Woking then all stations
17:40 72 Portsmouth & Southsea, first stop Woking
17:43 53 Farnham, Surbiton then all stations
17:45 Weymouth, Woking Basingstoke Winchester Eastleigh Parkway Southampton
17:48 51 Alton, Brookwood then all stations

Only real changes here are the new 1700 to Portsmouth (formed of a single VEP, if I remember right) and retiming of the old 1700 to 1702, plus the 1730 carrying a Fareham portion. Plus of course the 1720 being diverted to Southampton via Netley.

The two "dividers" at 1730 and 1756 were each formed of two temporary "6REP" units, I believe, formed from old REP units.

17:52 81 Portsmouth, first stop Woking
17:54 73 Haslemere, Surbiton then all stations
17:56 92 Poole & Portsmouth, Woking Farnborough Fleet Basingstoke Micheldever Winchester Eastleigh (split) Parkway Southampton
17:58 72 Haslemere, West Byfleet Woking
18:05 93 Southampton, Clapham Woking Farnborough then all stations

However, here there appers to be a net loss of one service, the 1754 to Eastleigh, a long-standing service which appears to have been there ever since the big 1977 peak rewrite.

To summarise:
Old 1750 retimed to 1752
Old 1756 retimed to 1754
Old 1800 retimed to 1756 and carries Portsmouth portion
1758 remains the same but with the West Byfleet and Woking stops reinstated, having been lost in 1989
1805 extended to Southampton, covering for the 1754

I presume that the loss of the 1754 was due to pathing changes required as a result of the 1756 (formerly 1800) needing more wait time at Eastleigh.
This did mean that WInchfield and Hook had a rather large gap from 1734 to 1805, with the 1756 picking up Farnborough and Fleet.

18:08 75 Guildford, Surbiton then all stations
18:11 82 Portsmouth, first stop Woking
18:15 1V19 D315+ Exeter, Woking Basingstoke
18:15 83 Portsmouth, SL Clapham Wimbledon Surbiton then all stations
18:18 51 Alton, Woking Ash Vale then all stations
18:20 63 Basingstoke, Surbiton FL Woking then all stations
18:27 82 Portsmouth, first stop Woking
18:32 Weymouth, Winchester Parkway Southampton Brockenhurst Bournemouth then all stations
18:34 52 Alton, Walton Weybridge West Byfleet Woking then all stations
18:40 1V40 D210+ Yeovil, first stop Basingstoke
18:42 63 Basingstoke, Clapham Surbiton Woking then all stations
18:45 Poole, Clapham Woking Basingstoke Winchester Eastleigh Parkway Southampton
18:45 75 Guildford, SL Clapham Wimbledon Surbiton then all stations
18:50 81 Portsmouth, pass Woking 19/14
19:00 51 Alton, Woking then all stations

All this much as in 1989.

1990 was arguably the last great NSE timetable on the Waterloo lines, with the next three years seeing a series of cuts. However improvements did occur under early SWT, with the 1997 timetable another classic one.

To add to that: in the off-peak, the main change was the new xx10 to Portsmouth via Eastleigh, which combined with the xx45 Poole to produce an even-ish 2tph to Winchester and Eastleigh for the first time.

 

[jfollows]

Thanks for those, so looks very similar indeed to 1989, as I thought I remembered. Did the 1658 to Portsmouth still operate in 1990?

No:
16:50 81 Portsmouth, SL at Hampton Court Junction, Woking pass 17/15.5
16:55 72 Portsmouth & Southsea, first stop Woking

 

[nw1]

No:
16:50 81 Portsmouth, SL at Hampton Court Junction, Woking pass 17/15.5
16:55 72 Portsmouth & Southsea, first stop Woking

OK thanks. Though in fact, the 1655 is the equivalent service of the 1658 which @JonathanH mentions in his 1989 list.

 

[Grecian 1998]

Hard to conceive of a train going to both Yeovil and Bournemouth now, although obviously the flexibility of 4TCs to do that finished with electrification to Weymouth. Slightly more exotic sounding than Salisbury and Eastleigh. The Yeovil portion would also have had to leave first, although the Bournemouth service appears to have been a stopper.

Poole was definitely a winner comparing the number of direct services in 1987 and 1988. It was probably quite fortuitous for Dorchester and Weymouth that the original electrification only extended to Bournemouth rather than Poole and that the 4REPs and 4TCs used the MkI bodyshell (even the 1974 built units). Had it extended to Poole and or a more modern design used, completing electrification to Weymouth might have been far enough down NSE's priority list that it might not have happened pre-privatisation, and I wouldn't have expected it to be much of a priority afterwards.

 

[nw1]

Hard to conceive of a train going to both Yeovil and Bournemouth now, although obviously the flexibility of 4TCs to do that finished with electrification to Weymouth. Slightly more exotic sounding than Salisbury and Eastleigh. The Yeovil portion would also have had to leave first, although the Bournemouth service appears to have been a stopper.

The Bournemouth portion was, I think, all stations or almost all stations beyond Basingstoke. In 1982 for example it skipped Shawford and the Airport but called everywhere else, was looped at Southampton to allow the 1835 Weymouth to pass, and (almost) used the regular path of the off-peak xx42 beyond Southampton Central in calling at all stations to Bournemouth.

A very efficient split at Basingstoke though: despite the Bournemouth portion being at the rear, it left there just 4 mins after arriving. 4-min splits for the rear portion seemed to be standard practice at the time.

To be fair the TCs did continue into the 1989 timetable, so in theory they could have continued these services for another couple of years. I think the main driver was to standardise on 50s as motive power?

Poole was definitely a winner comparing the number of direct services in 1987 and 1988. It was probably quite fortuitous for Dorchester and Weymouth that the original electrification only extended to Bournemouth rather than Poole and that the 4REPs and 4TCs used the MkI bodyshell (even the 1974 built units). Had it extended to Poole and or a more modern design used, completing electrification to Weymouth might have been far enough down NSE's priority list that it might not have happened pre-privatisation, and I wouldn't have expected it to be much of a priority afterwards.

Wonder how they would have operated it in that case? Would they have introduced the 442s so early, or kept the REPs and TCs going until 2004 as they did the CIGs and VEPs?

And when the Desiros came in, what then? Presumably that would have finally forced electrification, as the only other options would have been a DMU shuttle (and what DMUs? Presumably the 159s were fully accounted for) or a lengthy "diesel under the wires" service from Waterloo (which would have needed even more DMUs).