Penalty Fare hypothetical questions

Status
Not open for further replies.

amateur

On Moderation
Joined
23 Feb 2014
Messages
488
If you board a train in a compulsory ticket area, where they operate the penalty fare on all trains in the area. If a RPI were to come along "all tickets please" and you said "can I have a day return please" and flashed your dsb railcard can they penalty fare you?

Similarly, what would happen if say there were no ticket inspectors on board. Once you arrive at the intended destination, and barriers are in operation ...could you buy a ticket from the gateline staff ...or would you be subject to a penalty fare?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
53,327
Location
Yorkshire
If you board a train in a compulsory ticket area, where they operate the penalty fare on all trains in the area. If a RPI were to come along "all tickets please" and you said "can I have a day return please" and flashed your dsb railcard can they penalty fare you?
If you commenced your journey at such a station, and there were facilities you could have used, yes of course they could.


Similarly, what would happen if say there were no ticket inspectors on board. Once you arrive at the intended destination, and barriers are in operation ...could you buy a ticket from the gateline staff ...or would you be subject to a penalty fare?
If staff at the gateline are authorised collectors, and the origin & destination stations were Penalty Fare stations, and it was a penalty fare train, and there were adequate facilities (ie, an open ticket office), then yes of course.

For both of the above scenarios it would, however, be worth checking the policies of the relevant train company, just in case they have a policy of allowing Disabled Railcard holders to ignore ticket issuing facilities. For example, VTEC have a 'no questions asked' policy, but I am not sure if any of the Penalty Fare TOCs do... I suspect possibly not. Many would have a policy along the lines of showing discretion if their disability prevented them buying a ticket. Some train companies, and some staff, may not want to get into a debate about whether or not that was the case, so may show discretion at all times. But the rules would allow for a Penalty Fare to be charged.
 

Stigy

Established Member
Joined
6 Nov 2009
Messages
4,285
If you board a train in a compulsory ticket area, where they operate the penalty fare on all trains in the area. If a RPI were to come along "all tickets please" and you said "can I have a day return please" and flashed your dsb railcard can they penalty fare you?

Similarly, what would happen if say there were no ticket inspectors on board. Once you arrive at the intended destination, and barriers are in operation ...could you buy a ticket from the gateline staff ...or would you be subject to a penalty fare?
Compulsory Ticket Areas are irrelevant as most TOCs don't operate them. The requirement, as Yorkie states, comes wherever there were facilities to buy a relevant ticket at the start of the journey. If it is within a Compulsory Ticket Area, the only difference is when prosecuting such an offence under Railway Byelaws, as Byelaw 17 is for Compulsory Ticket Areas and 18 is for non-compulsory ticket ares.
 

amateur

On Moderation
Joined
23 Feb 2014
Messages
488
Okay. Just wasn't sure about disability discrimination laws. And if disability discrimination would override the penalty fare rule.

NSE, Y-P, DSB
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
If you commenced your journey at such a station, and there were facilities you could have used, yes of course they could.



If staff at the gateline are authorised collectors, and the origin & destination stations were Penalty Fare stations, and it was a penalty fare train, and there were adequate facilities (ie, an open ticket office), then yes of course.

For both of the above scenarios it would, however, be worth checking the policies of the relevant train company, just in case they have a policy of allowing Disabled Railcard holders to ignore ticket issuing facilities. For example, VTEC have a 'no questions asked' policy, but I am not sure if any of the Penalty Fare TOCs do... I suspect possibly not. Many would have a policy along the lines of showing discretion if their disability prevented them buying a ticket. Some train companies, and some staff, may not want to get into a debate about whether or not that was the case, so may show discretion at all times. But the rules would allow for a Penalty Fare to be charged.
Peterborough - London h: buy on board
 

talltim

Established Member
Joined
17 Jan 2010
Messages
2,387
There was me thinking DSB was the Danish railways. No wonder I was confused...
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
53,327
Location
Yorkshire
Your question is very vague, so if you are asking if simply holding a Disabled Railcard entitles you to ignore Penalty Fare rules with guaranteed impunity (which is how I read it), the answer is no.

However for any given scenario, all of the facts of the matter should be carefully considered.
 

Hellfire

Member
Joined
14 Dec 2012
Messages
552
Okay. Just wasn't sure about disability discrimination laws. And if disability discrimination would override the penalty fare rule.

NSE, Y-P, DSB
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Peterborough - London h: buy on board

I'm a bit puzzled. Are you asking if having a disability entitles you to avoid the necessity to purchase a ticket, if facilities are available, at the station you boarded then, no it doesn't . Obviously we don't know the nature of the disability but most staffed stations can cope.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top