Penalty for travelling without a rail card

[roadsidetree]

Hello,

My daughter travelled from Hitchin to Kew Gardens on March 19th. We talked about me purchasing a railcard for her earlier that week, but I forgot to do so. She bought the ticket assuming I had purchased her a "16-25" rail card. A Revenue Protection Officer checked her ticket at Welwyn Garden City, and she was issued a penalty notice.

As mentioned in the notice, we appealed online (through the website mentioned in the appeal) on April 1, explaining our mistake, and received a submission confirmation email. Since we did not hear anything afterwards, I naively assumed that our appeal was accepted.

But lo behold, Thameslink sent us a "notice of intention to prosecute" letter earlier this week (Monday, the 20th). So, yesterday (21st), we sent our appeal by post (first-class recorded delivery) to the address mentioned in the Thameslink letter (Prosecutions Department, Eastside offices, Kings Cross railway station, N1C 4AX). I drafted a letter accepting full responsibility and offering to pay the fine, travel costs my daughter evaded and any administrative costs my daughter incurred and sent this in the post.

But for some reason, this post was returned back to us today.

Since both my appeals have failed miserably, other than resending this post by first-class recorded delivery, is there anything else I can try? I am just trying to ensure my appeal reaches Thameslink to ensure an out-of-court settlement.

Many thanks in advance for your help.

 

[AlterEgo]

Firstly, do you have a copy of the notice she was issued? Are you sure it was a Penalty Fare, and not some other type of notice like a report for prosecution?

Could you upload this, and the subsequent "intention to prosecute" letter she has received, with her details redacted? It's important we know exactly what is going on here.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Hello,

My daughter travelled from Hitchin to Kew Gardens on March 19th. We talked about me purchasing a railcard for her earlier that week, but I forgot to do so. She bought the ticket assuming I had purchased her a "16-25" rail card. A Revenue Protection Officer checked her ticket at Welwyn Garden City, and she was issued a penalty notice.

As mentioned in the notice, we appealed online (through the website mentioned in the appeal) on April 1, explaining our mistake, and received a submission confirmation email. Since we did not hear anything afterwards, I naively assumed that our appeal was accepted.

But lo behold, Thameslink sent us a "notice of intention to prosecute" letter earlier this week (Monday, the 20th). So, yesterday (21st), we sent our appeal by post (first-class recorded delivery) to the address mentioned in the Thameslink letter (Prosecutions Department, Eastside offices, Kings Cross railway station, N1C 4AX). I drafted a letter accepting full responsibility and offering to pay the fine, travel costs my daughter evaded and any administrative costs my daughter incurred and sent this in the post.

But for some reason, this post was returned back to us today.

Since both my appeals have failed miserably, other than resending this post by first-class recorded delivery, is there anything else I can try? I am just trying to ensure my appeal reaches Thameslink to ensure an out-of-court settlement.

Many thanks in advance for your help.

They may have returned it to you as they cannot discuss somebody elses ( your daughters) case with you, even though you are her parent. I think she probably needs to sign the letter and send it as though she has written it, even if that isn't the case and you may get more of a reply.

 

[SussexMan]

But for some reason, this post was returned back to us today.

Being specific would be really helpful. Returned by Royal Mail as "not known at this address" or "refused" or some other reason, i.e. returned unopened?

 

[roadsidetree]

Firstly, do you have a copy of the notice she was issued? Are you sure it was a Penalty Fare, and not some other type of notice like a report for prosecution?

Could you upload this, and the subsequent "intention to prosecute" letter she has received, with her details redacted? It's important we know exactly what is going on here.

Thank you for your quick response. I have enclosed the witness statement report the Revenue Protection Officer issued.

My bad I mentioned this as penalty notice in my original post.

Being specific would be really helpful. Returned by Royal Mail as "not known at this address" or "refused" or some other reason, i.e. returned unopened?

Thank you for your response.

This was returned unopened without any reason. I will be going to the post office later this afternoon to find out and resend.

 

[AlterEgo]

Thank you for your quick response. I have enclosed the witness statement report the Revenue Protection Officer issued.

My bad I mentioned this as penalty notice in my original post.


Thank you for your response.

This was returned unopened without any reason. I will be going to the post office later this afternoon to find out and resend.

OK, so unfortunately it is not a Penalty Fare and there is no right to a formal appeal.

What was the most recent letter? Do you have this?

Ultimately as she didn't have a valid railcard when she made the journey she is liable to pay the outstanding fare plus an administration charge the company deems fit. This isn't a Penalty Fare but rather a way of keeping the offence out of court.

Has your daughter been writing the correspondence? Is she an adult?

 

[roadsidetree]

OK, so unfortunately it is not a Penalty Fare and there is no right to a formal appeal.

What was the most recent letter? Do you have this?

Ultimately as she didn't have a valid railcard when she made the journey she is liable to pay the outstanding fare plus an administration charge the company deems fit. This isn't a Penalty Fare but rather a way of keeping the offence out of court.

Has your daughter been writing the correspondence? Is she an adult?

Thank you again for your helpful reply.

I have enclosed the second letter with my daughter's personal info redacted.

And yes, she turned 18 this year. She is already very tense due to her ongoing A-level exams. Hence, the reason, I am here on this forum.

The actual letter which we are trying to send to Thameslink, has been signed both by her and me (as her father).

 

[island]

This was returned unopened without any reason. I will be going to the post office later this afternoon to find out and resend.

So there was no Royal Mail sticker or anything on it?

I have found that sometimes when the return address is written on the back of the envelope this occasionally gets scanned by the Royal Mail's automated equipment and deemed to be the destination address, then the item comes back to me.

Try resending it in a fresh envelope without the return address written on the outside.

 

[WesternLancer]

I would strongly consider paying for tracked post. It’s vital this gets to the railway to help avoid escalation to court as a result of failing to have the railcard. I’m afraid it’s best to pay more postage to prevent the extra costs and risk ref court.

 

[Gloster]

Alternatively, for the return address write the minimum needed in small (typewriting size) letters across the top of the back. Just the house name or number and full postcode, e.g. 94/AZ1 2XY .

 

[Sheffcaster202]

Would it be worth emailing your responses into GTR as well as posting again?

[email protected] is given on their website as main point of contact

If you wanted to include all 3 signatures you can use the notes/camera/scan function on the average smart phone, this will create and easily shareable pdf for you to email in

 

[AlbertBeale]

An extra point is that even if your daughter thought you'd bought her a railcard, she obviously knew she didn't have it with her - which you clearly have to do if travelling with a ticket at a cut price where the discount is validated by the railcard. If she didn't have the railcard, why would she think to buy the cheaper ticket whether you'd bought a railcard or not? This might make her situation seem more deliberate and culpable.

However, with the right approach to their contact with you, it's likely that this can be dealt with by way of an out-of-court settlement (paying for the [effectively unpaid] fare plus a 3-figure sum for the their administrative costs in dealing with this). If they agree to that, then it avoids a prosecution in court.

You haven't, I think, shown what you wrote in response to the prosecution threat you received this week (ie the letter which was returned in the post). People here might be able to advise on whether your approach in that letter is the best in order to get an out-of-court settlement. Since you have to resend it, you might take advice from people here (and perhaps amend it) before doing so.

Also, since your daughter is an adult, and it's her who's threatened with prosecution, I would imagine it's much more appropriate for the letter to be from her (or at least as from her), and signed by her (even if you help to draft it).

 

[Belperpete]

How or where did your daughter buy her ticket? Most options include a very clear warning that you need to have your Railcard with you when travelling with a Railcard-discounted ticket.