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Penzance to Thurso by train

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enjoy_trains

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Hi all,
I've tried searching to see if there is already a thread on this but nothing seems to be coming up

Next year for my 40th birthday celebrations I am thinking about a trip on the rails specifically from Penzance in Cornwall all the way up to Thurso in the Scottish Highlands. Has anyone on here ever done this before? Is there anything I should look out for or stop to see? Thanks
 
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pennine

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Hi all,
I've tried searching to see if there is already a thread on this but nothing seems to be coming up

Next year for my 40th birthday celebrations I am thinking about a trip on the rails specifically from Penzance in Cornwall all the way up to Thurso in the Scottish Highlands. Has anyone on here ever done this before? Is there anything I should look out for or stop to see? Thanks
If you haven't watched this already, have a look!
 

JonathanH

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Is there anything I should look out for or stop to see?
You have to stop somewhere, as using day trains you can only reach Tain from Penzance if travelling on the first train of the day from Penzance, and Plymouth from Thurso, if travelling on the first train of the day from Thurso.

Clearly, one possibility is to get an afternoon train from Penzance to London, then the Inverness sleeper, travelling on to Thurso on the next departure from Inverness. Likewise in the opposite direction. Better in June though than this time of the year

In my view, people would only travel on day trains from one end of the country to the other in one go as some sort of endurance exercise, rather than for pleasure. Doing it in manageable steps and stopping off on the way would seem to be a better experience. Where to stop off is a function of seeing places you either like from a previous visit, or want to see for the first time.

The length of the Far North Line is probably often underestimated.
 

brad465

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The length of the Far North Line is probably often underestimated.
I suspect that has something to do with both Scotland north of Inverness being underestimated in size (when I cycled LEJOG this area took 1.5 of the 9 days involved), and that the line goes on a lengthy detour around Dornoch firth, rather than crossing it straight from Tain like the A9 does.

According to National Rail Enquiries the fastest time is 23h09m going north, leaving Penzance at 15:15 and reaching Thurso at 14:24 the next calendar day, which includes Crewe-Inverness on the sleeper. The fasted combo with no sleeper is 24 hours exactly from 17:50-17:50, which includes a 3 hour wait in Wolverhampton and a bus/walk across Glasgow between the main termini.

Going south is faster, with 20h35m possible leaving Thurso at 16:32, including Inverness-Crewe on the sleeper.
 

306024

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One minute of that youtube clip was enough!

I did Lands End to John O’Groats by bus and train a few years ago. For amusement:

Bus Land‘s End to Penzance
GW HST Penzance to Plymouth
XC HST Plymouth to Sheffield (where it failed - door interlock problem)
EM HST Sheffield to Leeds
Overnight
158 Leeds to Carlisle
156 Carlisle to Glasgow Central via Dumfries
170 Glasgow Queen St to somewhere south of Aviemore (where it failed - out of fuel)
Rescued by southbound 170 (whose passengers were put on buses at Aviemore) to Inverness
Overnight
158 Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh (scenic diversion as I had time)
158 Kyle of Lochalsh to Dingwall
158 Dingwall to Wick (which goes via Thurso first)
Overnight
Bus Wick to John O’Groats

As for things to look out for it rather depends which route you chose of course. No idea what would be the best / cheapest ticket or combination of tickets for such a journey, but others may advise.
 
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Djgr

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Lol they didn't half make a meal out of it.

Also, the whole thing is pretty much just an ad for Trainpal
My gut feel is that you should do this not via London.

And yes this pair milked the "difficulties" big time. Let's hope they never have to anything really challenging!
 

Tetchytyke

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No idea what would be the best / cheapest ticket or combination of tickets for such a journey, but others may advise.
A look on Trainsplit gives a ten-split option one-way for £155 on a random date in November.

I’d get an ALR and make a week of it tbh.
 

Gloster

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I did it about 1981: I left Penzance at 10.23 and should have been in Thurso about twenty-six hours later, but the 26 broke down at Invergordon and I arrived an hour or so late (*). I did it without leaving BR: cross-country to Birmingham, up the WCML to Glasgow Central, out to Partick and back to Queen St, and overnight to Inverness. Tiring, but if I remember correctly that was the night I slept well on the floor of Dingwall South signal box (I had started from Exeter on the Down sleepers at around 03.30 the day before).

* - The delay was minimised as they realised the 26 was failing, so they didn’t try to get any further than Invergordon, nicked the loco off the goods that was at Dingwall and it followed as soon as section was clear, shunted the dud off and took over. Much better than a failure in section.
 
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WestAnglian

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One minute of that youtube clip was enough!
I haven't watched it, but I have ridden the whole of 1V60 and then crossed over the platform at Penzance and caught the sleeper. It was OK, but I was in first. I made the mistake of travelling on a summer Friday, so the train was rammed from BTM onwards with the Rock crowd. It was impossible to walk through the train as every vestibule had its floor covered in young people, who seemed a nice bunch of kids.

But I'd happily do it again, but not on a Friday.

Note to the OP - I believe that first XC from Penzance has a nasty habit of not running.
 

randyrippley

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Used to be possible to do it on National Express
Around 30 years ago I got on a Royal Blue at Manchester at around 3AM, the chap sitting next to me had started in the Scillies and was heading for Shetland (he was the wildlife warden on the Calf of Man, and this was his idea of a busmans holiday, birdwatching). From memory the Royal Blue was Penzance-Inverness, with a change there to a local coach for presumably Wick and the ferry
 

GoneSouth

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Depends how much you like Voyagers. Going not via London pretty much limits you to Voyagers at least for Bristol-Birmingham.
Which in the context of the journey being made is a tiny amount.

In fact, it’s only 1h20 which I’m fairly sure anyone can endure. Much rather that than potentially hours on 150s through Cornwall, Devon and up the Marches :rolleyes:

XC also has the advantage that you wouldn’t risk the danger of running into those 2 clowns from the video as they went LNER to GWR :D

Good luck to the original poster, I’d love to try that, it sounds like a beautifully insane thing to do, just because you can rather than any meaningful reason.
 

ac6000cw

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The length of the Far North Line is probably often underestimated.
I suspect that has something to do with both Scotland north of Inverness being underestimated in size (when I cycled LEJOG this area took 1.5 of the 9 days involved), and that the line goes on a lengthy detour around Dornoch firth, rather than crossing it straight from Tain like the A9 does.
Yes, I agree - it's around 330-340 miles by rail from Glasgow or Edinburgh to Wick or Thurso, around the same distance as London to Berwick-on-Tweed, but travelling on trains of about half the average speed!

Berwick-on-Tweed north to Thurso is basically the same rail distance (around 387 miles) as Berwick-on-Tweed south to Brighton...
 

enjoy_trains

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Thank you everyone, I've really enjoyed reading the replies. It is of course a beautifully insane thing to do with no real purpose as one person said but its something that I've wanted to do for years. I wouldn't go on my own though because I feel as a lone female I might attract unwanted attention. One of my sisters has said she'll go with me as well as my girlfriend so I'll be in good company. I also am wavering about doing it in November time. I'm thinking March/April might be better. Thanks everyone, I'll let you all know how I get on when I eventually get round to going.
 

The Puddock

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Be aware that if you want to actually see anything out of the window on the Far North line, at Thurso around the start of November the sunrise is 07:30ish and by the end of November it is 08:30ish. Sunset is 16:30ish at the start of November and 15:30ish at the end. You might be better waiting until the longer days of the summer months.
 

Grecian 1998

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Not that I've done it, but I'd certainly echo the suggestion that June (or failing that, May or July) would be the best time of year for it. Spending hours and hours in the darkness would be incredibly tedious. Seems a tad pointless travelling the length of the country if you can't see anything for large parts of the time.
 

david1212

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As others have already said to minimise travel in the dark unless you intend the total trip to be more than a week best to make the trip at most 6 weeks either side of 21st June. If you did spread the time out even in April what else would you do in the dark evenings?

Even if you avoid London I would travel one-way nominally west coast and the other ( relatively ) east coast e.g. Penzance > Bristol > Birmingham > Glasgow > Inverness > Thurso > Inverness > Aberdeen > Edinburgh > York > Birmingham > Reading > Exeter > Penzance.

Given time add in Glasgow - Fort William if not Mallaig and Inverness / Dingwall - Kyle of Lochalsh. A bit of a cheat but you could possibly do Glasgow > Mallaig > ferry > Skye by bus > Kyle of Lochalsh > Inverness / Dingwall. You do then miss the option of both the direct line through Blair Atholl & Aviemore and the line via Aberdeen.

Where might you want to stay two nights or at least stay one night arriving by mid-day / not departing until late afternoon? The obvious places are Edinburgh and York. With two nights in Newcastle ( or an early arrival and/or late departure ) a day at Beamish.

For smaller places to look around you could drop back a train or two.

The All Line Rover ( ALR ) is currently £571 for 7 days and £866 for 14 days. Other than a few restrictions which you could avoid it is valid anytime. This means you can depart e.g. York on a train that is less busy because walk-on tickets must be Anytime. Keeping ( mostly ) to walk-on tickets rather than advance and off-peak times you would have to spend time looking how much less you could pay.

A Spirit of Scotland Travelpass is £149 for 4 days in 8 or £189 for 8 days in 15. Validity is anytime on ScotRail services else from 09:15 Monday to Friday. If you can find e.g. Penzance - Carlisle and Berwick-upon-Tweed - Penzance as split and/or advance tickets with times convenient to your preferred route, breaks and overnight stops overall probably cheaper.

The Two Together Railcard costs just £30 and gives you 1/3 off most tickets including the ALR and as far as I can determine the Spirit of Scotland Travelpass. However all discounted tickets are only valid after 09:30 Monday - Friday. Remember by splitting tickets you can depart earlier by not using the railcard or a Rover bought with it for the leg up to the first station where departure is after 09:30.


Depends how much you like Voyagers. Going not via London pretty much limits you to Voyagers at least for Bristol-Birmingham.

Relatively I prefer a Voyager to an 80x IET. The ever bigger issue is overcrowding on Cross-Country.
 
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Techniquest

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I've not tried this myself, with the furthest I've done on one train being London to Inverness way back in 2007. However I do think it's a fascinating idea and a cracking way to celebrate a 40th. I've got the same milestone coming up next year, and I haven't yet figured out how I'm going to mark the occasion.

This certainly has inspired me to actually think about it, and with a little over a year to go until the event I think something big like this could work. Enough about me though, as one can tell from my trip reports thread I talk a lot so let's avoid that and focus on your adventure:

First of all, it's a good idea to have some company with you. I get the feeling you'd not enjoy the trip otherwise.

Secondly, I hope you'll share the tale of the adventure with us all on here :) I'm definitely interested in finding out how it went and I suspect plenty of other people will be too.

Let's talk routing. Penzance to Thurso's a mammoth journey, no matter how you do it. Going straight up the XC route to Edinburgh, then changing for Inverness and thus Thurso, that's the most logical in terms of convenience and speed. It's also not the most thrilling! I don't know much about your desires with scenery etc, but if I may, here's a suggestion:

- Penzance to Bristol, either on XC or GWR whichever is most sensibly priced, stopping off for maybe an hour or so for a leg-stretching break in the city to grab some good quality food for the journey etc.

- Bristol to Newport, nice and easy diversion into Wales with maybe time to grab a coffee at HiCoffee next to platform 4 :)

- Newport to Manchester Piccadilly, preferably on a MK4 set for the additional comfort, with a leg stretching break for an hour or so again etc. Plenty of beautiful scenery on the way north through Wales, Herefordshire, Shropshire and Cheshire to enjoy, my recommendation is to sit on the left hand side in the direction of travel for the best views :)

- Manchester Piccadilly to Glasgow Central on Transpennine Express. I did consider recommending going over the Pennines themselves, for the scenery, but I'm a sucker for the views through places like Tebay in Cumbria :wub: Actually, perhaps use any operator Manchester to Preston then change to Avanti north to Glasgow to sample the scenic delights while also enjoying the 8 degrees of tilt on a Pendolino :wub:

- Short walk through the city centre of Glasgow to grab a cuppa, stretch the legs etc, after enjoying the splendid station of Glasgow Central and then enjoying the modern architecture of the rebuilt Glasgow Queen Street.

- Glasgow Queen Street to Inverness, hopefully aboard a ScotRail HST. I prefer sitting on the left hand side in the direction of travel, for the beautiful views on the Highland Main Line :wub:

- Inverness to Thurso on a ScotRail 158. I haven't travelled north of Dingwall since June 2007, so I don't really remember much about the line, but I do know there's some really nice bits of scenery and you'll want to do that line in daylight.

There are alternatives throughout that plan, such as going via Worcester after Bristol for a short break to visit the city's cathedral, riverside walks and quirky railway layout, but there's not enough time left in today to detail every single option. Likewise, you'd have the potential option to break the journey at Shrewsbury for the beautiful town, its enormous signal box and riverside walks. Hereford is an option too for the cathedral, riverside walks and more too. As I say, there's options galore!

It depends really on how you want to do the journey. Is this part of a personal Land's End to John O'Groats challenge? Will it be a case of see how fast you can do the journey? Do you want to stop off along the way and enjoy some of the places this beautiful country has to offer?

I hope this gives you an insight into some of the options available. I just looked at approximate times for my proposed route above, and with an almost enforced hour's break in Newport off the 0640 Penzance to Cardiff Central, given there's just 4 minutes to make a connection onto a Manchester service, it's gone 2100 into Glasgow. That's with using the 0628 Penzance to Edinburgh as far as Bristol with a little under an hour until that Cardiff train, then an hour in Newport, and with an hour or so in Manchester that puts one onto a Transpennine Express service that terminates in Carlisle. However one can still transfer to Avanti before there.

The morning after, one can jump on the 0707 Glasgow to Inverness and have a 12 minute connection onto the 1041 to Wick, arriving Thurso at 1424. This is all based on times available on 5th December 2023, the timetable next year could well be different. Incidentally, one could make it to Inverness with just one 25 minute connection in Edinburgh from that XC at 0628, arriving at Inverness at 2124. That's a long day with not much happening though, and while the journey would still be scenic I'd say there would be less of interest.

As I say, it's up to you how you want to do it. Be warned that Inverness can get very expensive for hotels, so it's worth considering breaking the journey elsewhere. Edinburgh isn't cheap for hotels either, unless you're willing to settle for poor quality accommodation. I've been bitten by that before, and given you're marking a milestone event I can't imagine you'd want to risk a bad hotel.
 

Enthusiast

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The length of the Far North Line is probably often underestimated.
I think the surprise is twofold:

Firstly there's the distance involved. Inverness to Wick by rail is 161 miles. This compares with 102 miles by road.

But then there's the journey time. Those who have not studied the details will be astounded to learn that although they can travel the 393 miles from Kings Cross to Waverley in about four and a quarter hours, once there it will take them at least another eight hours to reach the far north (provided they have an agreeable connection at Inverness). The best journey time for the 115 188 miles from Edinburgh to the Highland capital is around three and a half hours. The normal scheduled duration from there to Wick is 4hour and 20 minutes. This includes 24 stops (including a reversal at Georgemas to serve Thurso, which adds 12 miles and almost half an hour to the journey).
 
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30907

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I think the surprise is twofold:

The best journey time for the 115 miles from Edinburgh to the Highland capital is around three and a half hours.
Small detail, that's by crow - or Rishicopter :)
Rail distance is officially 188.25m, slightly shorter via Ladybank I think, giving a start-to-stop average of 55mph including at least 6 stops.
Road is 156m and takes 3h3 minimum
 

D841 Roebuck

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This thread has got me in trip planning mode ;) .

I'm looking at an ALR for 2024 to visit the 12 shacks which I have not yet boarded or alighted to/from a train at, and which are the most Northerly, Easterly, Southerly and Westerly in England, Scotland and Wales:
Acklington, Oulton Broad North, Lelant Saltings, Carbis Bay, Hawarden, Gwyrsylt, Waun-gron Park, Johnston, Thurso, Golf Street Halt, Annan and Arisaig.

This seems to form the basis of an itinerary of sorts, will need to see if it's doable in a week! Ideally, a night in the far north and a day trip to the Orkneys to be included...
 

enjoy_trains

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I hadn't thought about going to Lands end or John o Groats only the travel by train part but it's an idea to think about. I also was thinking about incorporating both sleepers into my journey but it wouldn't be a get there as fast as you can journey because I want to enjoy it and I want those with me to enjoy it as well. I wouldnt cope with that kind of journey either. Currently my girlfriend and sister have agreed to come with me and depending on the month my mum might as well. I reckon its unusual for 4 women to do this journey so i might set some kind of record! I might also have some friends joining me for some of the journey.
I'm absolutely loving all these responses. Thank you everyone
 

AdamWW

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Used to be quite popular I believe in the days that BR ran an offer (in Februarys I think) where you could get a £10 return ticket from anywhere to anywhere with a young person's railcard.

I think the prevailing view then was that one should do Penzance to Wick as that's slightly further than Thurso, but then you're not going from the most northern to the most southern station.

(It works out quite nicely that the UK is the right shape that most Southerly station is at an extremity of the rail network, rather than somewhere on the way or even somewhere in the South East.)
 

Gaelan

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I think the prevailing view then was that one should do Penzance to Wick as that's slightly further than Thurso, but then you're not going from the most northern to the most southern station.
These days, of course, all Wick trains go via Thurso so it's trivial to do both.
 

Magdalia

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Used to be quite popular I believe in the days that BR ran an offer (in Februarys I think) where you could get a £10 return ticket from anywhere to anywhere with a young person's railcard.
The first time that I went to Thurso was on a ticket like this from London in March 1982. In those days it was easier because of the "Scottish Internal" overnight trains between Glasgow/Edinburgh and Inverness. I set off from Euston on the Sunday afternoon and got back to London on the Tuesday evening.
 
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