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Percy and the signal. But what signal?

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Cowley

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In fact Henry is rebuilt as a Stanier Black Five (painted green of course!)
I always wondered if he was rebuilt as a Jubilee?
It seemed like quite a fall from grace being rebuilt from a prestigious Pacific to a mixed traffic Black 5 no matter what quantity of green Dulux they had left in the stores.
A Jubilee called Henry though...
 
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Merthyr Imp

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1. You can see the rebuilt Henry is a Black Five rather than a Jubilee.

2. In the book 'The Island of Sodor: Its people, history and railways' by The Rev. W. Awdry & G. Awdry, it specifically states that following the Flying Kipper accident Henry was sent to Crewe in 1935 and returned as a Stanier Class 5MT. It's suggested that Topham Hatt was able to get this done by calling in a favour owed to him by his old Swindon Works apprentice pal William Stanier.

It's said that Henry in his original form, constructed in 1922, was the result of a botched piece of industrial espionage when the wrong drawings were stolen from Doncaster.
 

MarkyT

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I always wondered if he was rebuilt as a Jubilee?
It seemed like quite a fall from grace being rebuilt from a prestigious Pacific to a mixed traffic Black 5 no matter what quantity of green Dulux they had left in the stores.
A Jubilee called Henry though...

I suspect he actually returned as a different loco, possibly with a smokebox transplant to preserve his enginality, but perhaps not... The real Henry may have met his end screaming on the scrap road, while his replacement was constructed entirely new nearby. I wouldn't put it beyond the Fat Controller to have had him replaced as Henry had been seen as trouble in his earlier days and the general public on Sodor wouldn't have noticed as a green engine returned. The other engines no doubt knew deep down he was never really the same engine again, but didn't dare say anything for fear of the same fate.
 

Merthyr Imp

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The real Henry may have met his end screaming on the scrap road, while his replacement was constructed entirely new nearby.

According to the book I mentioned before, it seems the works at Crovan's Gate were/are only used for overhaul and rebuilding of locomotives rather than new construction.
 

MarkyT

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...It's said that Henry in his original form, constructed in 1922, was the result of a botched piece of industrial espionage when the wrong drawings were stolen from Doncaster.
So that would have been just before the first A1s were launched. A slightly earlier Gresley pacific design iteration that had not been built perhaps? Would surely have been a 3-cylinder design as the classic Gresley front end with conjugated valve gear was already fully developed by then, so the Crewe rebuild must have been a significant reconfiguration of the front end as well as the firebox.
According to the book I mentioned before, it seems the works at Crovan's Gate were/are only used for overhaul and rebuilding of locomotives rather than new construction.
From A1-like prototype to 5MT a mere 'rebuild'? I'm not buying it :)
 

Cowley

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I suspect he actually returned as a different loco, possibly with a smokebox transplant to preserve his enginality, but perhaps not... The real Henry may have met his end screaming on the scrap road, while his replacement was constructed entirely new nearby. I wouldn't put it beyond the Fat Controller to have had him replaced as Henry had been seen as trouble in his earlier days and the general public on Sodor wouldn't have noticed as a green engine returned. The other engines no doubt knew deep down he was never really the same engine again, but didn't dare say anything for fear of the same fate.
“Screaming on the scrap road”... :lol:
 

Cowley

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I don’t know if I want to watch it.
Might need a beer before that one....
 

Merthyr Imp

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So that would have been just before the first A1s were launched. A slightly earlier Gresley pacific design iteration that had not been built perhaps? Would surely have been a 3-cylinder design as the classic Gresley front end with conjugated valve gear was already fully developed by then, so the Crewe rebuild must have been a significant reconfiguration of the front end as well as the firebox.
From A1-like prototype to 5MT a mere 'rebuild'? I'm not buying it :)

Exactly - that's why it was done at Crewe rather than locally - see my earlier post.

Regarding being a Gresley A1 prototype, that's what Gordon actually was - an experimental prototype. He was used only for test runs and never entered regular service or given a GNR number. After being used to iron out any defects, when the production locomotives began to be built Gordon was deemed surplus to requirements and sold to the North Western Railway on Sodor in 1923.

The book is short on detail about Henry. To quote in full: '...rumours of a scandal at Doncaster in 1919 or thereabouts, about the theft of some drawings. Nothing was proved, but it was alleged that a Locomotive Builder with a grudge against Gresley had engineered a 'leak' so as to steal a march on him. His spy, however, blundered and took the wrong drawings. The mistake was discovered too late. The locomotive when built, showed so many faults that the builder was glad of a chance to unload his 'white elephant' on to a desperate customer.'

I interpret that as someone wished to steal drawings of Gresley's proposed A1 in about 1919 (presumably they would have been of Gordon) but by mistake some other drawings were taken and the locomotive built according to them turned out to be Henry.

There was a shortage of locomotives on Sodor in the 1920s and it appears Topham Hatt slipped up in that he thought he had bought an Atlantic from this unspecified builder, but instead was sent Henry. Being so short of motive power at the time Hatt just had to make do with anything he could get.
 
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