Pet Projects

[HITMAN]

Raise speeds on all lines so that the major main lines have 170mph speed limits.
l

The only present lines that could be upgraded to take those kinds of speed realisitically are the ECML between Stevenage and Thirsk and the GWML between Acton and Bristol parkway

 

[LE Greys]

OK, I'm going to be a bit more thorough for my home line only.

Make the ECML four-track all the way to Stoke Tunnel
125 running from Potters Bar Tunnel to Welwyn (speed restriction at Hatfield)
Build the new viaduct and tunnels for 155 mph running and put in flyovers to allow the fasts to reach the new alignment
125 restriction through Stevenage, but 155 all the way from there to Holme (speed restriction at Offord). Close any unneeded platform faces on the fast lines
Begin working on a parallel 200 mph high-speed route from there (fasts separate by a flying junction) which runs direct to Doncaster, diverting from the main line around Grantham, Newark and Retford, but has 'slip roads' back onto the old line so that trains can still call at the stations.
Major junction at Black Carr, allowing trains to Leeds to call at new platforms between Doncaster station and the Plant
New 125 mph fast lines from Doncaster to Leeds
Leave a gap from Colton Junction to Poppleton Junction, potentially to fill in with a tunnel under York
Remodel the north of York to provide a four-track approach
Pull up the slows from Poppleton Junction to Northallerton and replace them with 200 mph fast lines
Grade separate Northallerton and run the new lines parallel as far as Darlington
Send them straight through the current fast lines at Darlington, remodelling the approaches and providing a new platform on the up loop
Route the fast lines via Sherburn to avoid Durham, rejoining north of Chester-le-Street
A break in the new line at Newcastle, with the potential of a new avoiding line later on
An all-new 200 mph route via Coldstream or Tweedbank to Newcraighall
Terminate at Edinburgh Waverley, using yet more new fast lines (partly to free capacity to reopen the suburban loop)
Reopen local stations along much of the route, providing an electric stopping service in between the vast increase in freight, the speed limit might drop to 100 mph on the new 'slow lines' (the old fasts)

This would cost a lot, but I tried to avoid pulling up too much of the old line, so it should not disrupt services. Venturing off railway property would be best avoided, since it would push up costs as well. I'm not ignoring the possibility of routing the high speed lines via Leeds or putting in a Peterborough-Cambridge-Stansted-Stratford route. However, the important point would be that it would simply be a faster version of the current line with 'turn up and go' ticketing and regular services off the route to places such as Hull, Skipton, and Cleethorpes.

 

[shinkansen1966]

One thing I would like to see is investment in the Midland Main Line. I know NR has planned to increase linespeed to 125mph in places in the south, but I just can't help think that it's rather pointless due to the short length of the stretches with 125mph linespeed.

Agreed. As I understand it, the MML upgrade is part of NR control period 4 spending and will go ahead, despite the cuts threatened elsewhere. There will be near continous 125mph running for the 30 miles between Luton and Wellingborough, 110mph from there to Leicester and 120mph onto Trent. From there it'll be the 100-110mph to Sheffield.

Journey time from St Pancras to Sheffield will be 2h00.

 

[LE Greys]

Agreed. As I understand it, the MML upgrade is part of NR control period 4 spending and will go ahead, despite the cuts threatened elsewhere. There will be near continous 125mph running for the 30 miles between Luton and Wellingborough, 110mph from there to Leicester and 120mph onto Trent. From there it'll be the 100-110mph to Sheffield.

Journey time from St Pancras to Sheffield will be 2h00.

IIRC, that was the time for the Master Cutler in BR days. Still, I reckon a Trent Junction upgrade to Colton Junction standards could get the speed up a little there, but you would need tilt to increase it much beyond the current levels. BTW, what is the limit between Sheffield and Derby? I'm almost certain that it was increased for the benefit of Voyagers about eight years ago, although not to the 125 of the Derby-Burton-Tamworth section.

 

[tbtc]

IIRC, that was the time for the Master Cutler in BR days

In fairness, I presume that the two hour time discussed will be "via Derby" whereas the Master Cutler had the luxury of running non stop via the Trent Valley between Chesterfield and Leicester (something we should have more of these days IMHO, since Derby to Sheffield doesn't need four trains an hour)

 

[route:oxford]

Perhaps not the grandest pet projects of all...

Carstairs junction is in serious need of remodelling, trains from Edinburgh slow to an absolute crawl. There is an existing, disused, trackbed around 300 metres further south that could be utilised to deliver a smoother, faster route. If there is money to be burnt, then there is plenty of space to build a flying crossover too. Should help ease a sticky point in the network.

 

[Vulcan]

Does this have to be realistic? because if not, then I would like a modern version of George Bennie's Railplane built between Bradford and Seaton in Devon to allow me to visit the north for weekends when I start living down south. It would travel at speeds of up to 200mph and completely bypass Birmingham.

 

[shinkansen1966]

In fairness, I presume that the two hour time discussed will be "via Derby" whereas the Master Cutler had the luxury of running non stop via the Trent Valley between Chesterfield and Leicester (something we should have more of these days IMHO, since Derby to Sheffield doesn't need four trains an hour)

Agreed. I'd like to see one of the twice hourly services from St Pancras to Sheffield routed via the Trent Valley. Once the 125mph uprgades are finished, you could see St Pancras - Sheffield in around 1 hr 55 mins. Derby would loose one its four train per hour between Derby and Sheffield. Trouble is, Derby would also loose one of its twice hourly trains to London.

Five EMTs per hour leave St Pancras. Two to Derby/Sheffield, two to Nottingham and one to Corby. Given capacity, I suspect that's the best use of resources. Think the EMT fast/semi fast arrangement to Derby/Sheffield and Nottingham will continue.

Unless, you add an evening flagship St Pancras to Sheffield via the Trent Valley. Or remove the Chesterfield stop from the faster of the two St Pancras to Sheffield twice hourly service.

With a blank chequebook, I'd like to see MML given an WCML make over. Electrification, tilt trains and 110mph-125mph. Sheffield would be around 1 h 50 mins from London (via Derby with 3 stops). Nottingham would be a respectable 85 mins from London. At the moment, it's a mediocre 106-115 mins.

 

[LE Greys]

With the GCR rebuilding (another of my favourites) you are starting with a blank slate. The GCR was laid out very well, and I'm certain it could sustain 155 mph on the old alignment. There was no shortage of tiny stations (Finmere, Quorn and Woodhouse, etc) but there is probably no need to reopen them. Going for a limited-level reopening, 125 on double track for much of the length with Chiltern extending its service to Brackley or Rugby, I reckon you could reach Sheffield in about 105 minutes, Nottingham in about 70 minutes and Leicester in about 55 minutes. By diverting some Cross-Countries as well, you could probably cut 30 minutes from the Reading-Sheffield time by avoiding Birmingham.

Routing HS2 that way (always my preferred option) would bring Nottingham down to 45 minutes and Sheffield down to 60 minutes, mostly by avoiding stops and running a 6 tph each way frequency. This includes one to Edinburgh via Rotherham and Leeds, one to Glasgow via Woodhead and Manchester, one to Bradford via Penistone and one through train from Paris to Glasgow, leaving two 200 mph semi-fasts. The Rugby-Leicester-Nottingham section would somehow have to squeeze in two 125 mph paths for Cross-Country. Nottingham-Sheffield would have four tracks to work with, allowing it to accommodate a Norwich-Manchester-Glasgow service. So would anything south of Rugby, to accommodate suburban services. The Woodhead would have to accommodate a diverted TPX South route as well, but would be a 125 mph route rather than full 200 mph LGV.

If this happened, I would expect Midland services to start adding extra stops (no way they could compete on speed). However, the MML would be moving more passengers than ever, to feed the GCR and international services. Tweaking the MML paths to allow for this might make freight pathing easier, so allowing more to run that way. I would also expect a major boost to the economy of the region from companies relocating for the good transport links to the Continent as well as London and the North.

Its doable, but would cost a lot of money. However, probably not as much as an all-new HS2.

 

[shinkansen1966]

Remain unconvinced about the tens of billions needed for HS2. Money could be better spent on electrification of MML, Cross country and various other fill-ins. Another billion will get you some bottlenecks sorted out: Welwyn amd Newark on the ECML, Stafford on the WCML and two track Oxford station.

Afer these projects, you'd still have change for some welcome tram services in Leeds, extend Nottingham and Birmingham services, and a long overdue tram system for Bristol. As an occassional visitor to Bristol (one of the UK largest cities), I find urban public transport there derisory.

 

[button_boxer]

In fairness, I presume that the two hour time discussed will be "via Derby" whereas the Master Cutler had the luxury of running non stop via the Trent Valley between Chesterfield and Leicester (something we should have more of these days IMHO, since Derby to Sheffield doesn't need four trains an hour)

I can't help but think that the extension of the semi-fast London to Derby services to Sheffield last year was a bit futile. Going north the extra trains only leave Derby ten minutes before the "fast" ones, and going south they leave Sheffield 8 minutes after the "fast" ones and then crawl between Ambergate and Derby following a slower train. Yes, it means you can have headlines of "two trains per hour" from Sheffield to London but calling it a "half-hourly" service is a bit of a bad joke.

But it's difficult to think of a better option. If you were to divert anything via the Erewash valley it'd have to be the fast Sheffield to London services, but that would leave Derby with only the semi-fasts. Maybe you could compensate for that by removing the Loughborough or Long Eaton stops, but there'll always be knock-on effects elsewhere.

 

[shinkansen1966]

But it's difficult to think of a better option. If you were to divert anything via the Erewash valley it'd have to be the fast Sheffield to London services, but that would leave Derby with only the semi-fasts. Maybe you could compensate for that by removing the Loughborough or Long Eaton stops, but there'll always be knock-on effects elsewhere.

St Pancras is the contraining factor. EMT has access to only four platforms. And it's difficult to see how they expand on their 5 departures an hour: Corby x 1, Derby/Sheffield x 2, Nottingham x 2. The semi fast to Sheffield has 3 extra stops, so it ought only to take only another 10 mins longer than fast train, but I guess there are pathing constraints here too. By 2013, MML will see some 125mph upgrading. Perhaps by then, they'll have ironed out the timetable oddments.

Still, it's a big improvement on the erratic timetable over 15+ years ago. Less than hourly Sheffield to London, typically taking 2 hr 30 mins with random stops south of Leicester.

 

[GingerSte]

That's why I think 4-tracking Digswell Viaduct and running a King's X - Sheffield service would be useful. I imagine it would be KX-Peterborough-Grantham-Nottingham-Chesterfield-Sheffield. An alternative to this would be to run through Retford, although this would require a new chord.

You could then free up St Pancras for semi-fasts to Derby and possibly run a fast to Leeds (in place of the semi-fast Leeds-Nottingham). In my opinion a bit of competition would improve the offerings available ftom EMT and East Coast.

 

[tbtc]

I can't help but think that the extension of the semi-fast London to Derby services to Sheffield last year was a bit futile. Going north the extra trains only leave Derby ten minutes before the "fast" ones, and going south they leave Sheffield 8 minutes after the "fast" ones and then crawl between Ambergate and Derby following a slower train. Yes, it means you can have headlines of "two trains per hour" from Sheffield to London but calling it a "half-hourly" service is a bit of a bad joke.

But it's difficult to think of a better option. If you were to divert anything via the Erewash valley it'd have to be the fast Sheffield to London services, but that would leave Derby with only the semi-fasts. Maybe you could compensate for that by removing the Loughborough or Long Eaton stops, but there'll always be knock-on effects elsewhere.

I suppose one way round it would be to keep the "fast" service via Derby each hour and divert the "slow" service via the Trent Valley, since that'd take about the same length of time (running slow through Luton/ Bedford/ Wellingborough/ Loughborough etc but fast from East Midlands Parkway to Chesterfield - maybe stopping at Alfreton, to give north Nottinghamshire an hourly London service) - I reckon the two services would both take around 120/125/130 minutes, which would give passengers a more equal choice.

Get round this by diverting the Leicester - Nottingham "stopper" to Derby instead, keeping the two trains an hour from Leicester to Derby, and Derby's links to EMD/ Loughborough etc)?

If St P can cope with three trains in half an hour (when the Corby service runs) then it can presumably cope with three trains in the "other" half hour (when the Corby train doesn't run), which suggests that *if* the units were available you could run:

1x Slow to Sheffield via Alfreton
1x Slow to Corby
1x SemiFast to Nottingham
1x Fast to Derby and on to Sheffield
1x SemiFast to Derby
1x Fast to Nottingham

I know the units aren't there, before anyone points out, just thinking about a longer term ambition (when wired up?)