Pick Up / Set Down

[dk1]

Although those trains at Stratford are advertised as going to Liverpool Street on the platform screens so for the average passenger they wouldn't know any different to a train from Norwich to the train from Southend.

We have never understood why they are on the screens at Stratford but got bored of saying anything. Once the last passengers alight its doors shut & off we go.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

We have never understood why they are on the screens at Stratford but got bored of saying anything. Once the last passengers alight its doors shut & off we go.

If they weren't on the screen
- A train pulls into P9 early
- It says London Liverpool Street on it so people get on
- It leaves earlier than the next displayed train, possibly causing some confusion

If they are on the screen
- Train pulls into P9
- People get on
- It leaves on time

End of the day I don't think it makes much difference, some people get to Liverpool street 5-10 minutes early, people already on the train keep their seats.

 

[MCSHF007]

If they weren't on the screen
- A train pulls into P9 early
- It says London Liverpool Street on it so people get on
- It leaves earlier than the next displayed train, possibly causing some confusion

If they are on the screen
- Train pulls into P9
- People get on
- It leaves on time

End of the day I don't think it makes much difference, some people get to Liverpool street 5-10 minutes early, people already on the train keep their seats.

But the "legitimate" passengers already on the train then are delayed in alighting at Liverpool St by those joining at Stratford and hogging the aisles/vestibules/door areas.

'Similar but different' to those in coach M (First Class GNER) having "less room to manouevre" in the aisles/doorways thanks to passengers from Stevenage (& further north) "walking through" to selfishly speed their own exit at Kings Cross (and thereby detracting from one of the benefits of travelling in First).

 

[Horizon22]

Going to be interesting from Monday week when GA try to introduce set down only on the 07:26 Norwich to Liv St at Colchester. Never worked in the 2000s but let’s see.

It will probably work initially as it’s not always on journey planners on CIS but people will soon cotton onto it.

Anyway this happens all over the network at key locations where efficient crowd distribution is key; don’t make the experience worse for long distance passengers by piling it up with passengers only travelling one stop for whom there is a suitable alternative. It’s definitely less effective that it used to be though with things like RTT; indeed I’ve seen services that used to be pick-up/set-down only become normal stops as the effectiveness was effectively nil in the end so it was formalised in a timetable change!

 

[Taunton]

It will probably work initially as it’s not always on journey planners on CIS but people will soon cotton onto it.

Anyway this happens all over the network at key locations where efficient crowd distribution is key; don’t make the experience worse for long distance passengers by piling it up with passengers only travelling one stop for whom there is a suitable alternative. It’s definitely less effective that it used to be though with things like RTT; indeed I’ve seen services that used to be pick-up/set-down only become normal stops as the effectiveness was effectively nil in the end so it was formalised in a timetable change!

Of course, when convenient to the TOC ... used to be that long distance trains from Kings Cross were Pick Up Only at Stevenage, which could be readily controlled at Kings Cross. Then one of the various ECML operators over recent times realised they could do an Orcats Raid on such traffic. On the 1730 to Leeds I found I was standing, until half the train got out at Stevenage. So much for the experience of long distance passengers.

 

[dk1]

It will probably work initially as it’s not always on journey planners on CIS but people will soon cotton onto it.

Anyway this happens all over the network at key locations where efficient crowd distribution is key; don’t make the experience worse for long distance passengers by piling it up with passengers only travelling one stop for whom there is a suitable alternative. It’s definitely less effective that it used to be though with things like RTT; indeed I’ve seen services that used to be pick-up/set-down only become normal stops as the effectiveness was effectively nil in the end so it was formalised in a timetable change!

It hasn’t worked at Colchester (up) in the past and that wasn’t a peak time service. This will be interesting.

I might offer to work the 07:26 through to London next time I get that job (currently work it to Ipswich then pick up on return) to see how it’s going.

 

[Krokodil]

There was an entertaining incident a few years ago where an FGW HST was booked PUO at Reading in the afternoon peak so that Reading passengers didn't crowd out the long-distance ones. The train was so overcrowded that Control decided to omit the call entirely (in theory there should have been no one alighting at Reading so no space would be freed up for those joining). Some Reading commuters were so used to ignoring the "this train doesn't call at Reading" announcements that they ignored it this time too and ended up in Swindon.

 

[43066]

There was an entertaining incident a few years ago where an FGW HST was booked PUO at Reading in the afternoon peak so that Reading passengers didn't crowd out the long-distance ones. The train was so overcrowded that Control decided to omit the call entirely (in theory there should have been no one alighting at Reading so no space would be freed up for those joining). Some Reading commuters were so used to ignoring the "this train doesn't call at Reading" announcements that they ignored it this time too and ended up in Swindon.

Well, they couldn’t very well complain. They’re lucky they weren’t penalty fared at Swindon for not having valid tickets .

 

[zwk500]

Well, they couldn’t very well complain. They’re lucky they weren’t penalty fared at Swindon for not having valid tickets .

To be fair a big belly laugh from the Swindon station staff when they did come to complain would probably be humiliation enough, swiftly followed up by 'you'll be wanting an Anytime Single then?'

 

[dk1]

There was an entertaining incident a few years ago where an FGW HST was booked PUO at Reading in the afternoon peak so that Reading passengers didn't crowd out the long-distance ones. The train was so overcrowded that Control decided to omit the call entirely (in theory there should have been no one alighting at Reading so no space would be freed up for those joining). Some Reading commuters were so used to ignoring the "this train doesn't call at Reading" announcements that they ignored it this time too and ended up in Swindon.

Karma

 

[voyagerdude220]

There was an entertaining incident a few years ago where an FGW HST was booked PUO at Reading in the afternoon peak so that Reading passengers didn't crowd out the long-distance ones. The train was so overcrowded that Control decided to omit the call entirely (in theory there should have been no one alighting at Reading so no space would be freed up for those joining). Some Reading commuters were so used to ignoring the "this train doesn't call at Reading" announcements that they ignored it this time too and ended up in Swindon.

I seem to remember it being widely reported on here at the time- several of the aforementioned idiots were very quick to tweet GWR complaining that their train had failed to call at Reading- despite not being booked to do so because of it no longer calling to pick up.

 

[87electric]

But the "legitimate" passengers already on the train then are delayed in alighting at Liverpool St by those joining at Stratford and hogging the aisles/vestibules/door areas.

'Similar but different' to those in coach M (First Class GNER) having "less room to manouevre" in the aisles/doorways thanks to passengers from Stevenage (& further north) "walking through" to selfishly speed their own exit at Kings Cross (and thereby detracting from one of the benefits of travelling in First).

Wow, just wow. A 30 second delay maybe. What a first world problem to moan about. Nothing to see here.

 

[Jimini]

I seem to remember it being widely reported on here at the time- several of the aforementioned idiots were very quick to tweet GWR complaining that their train had failed to call at Reading- despite not being booked to do so because of it no longer calling to pick up.

1915 from Paddington skipping the Pick up only call tonight

Any one ignoring the Reading Pick up only at Paddington on tonight's 19:15 from London Paddington to Swansea may have had a surprise. The train left London so full and standing it was decided by FGW to skip the Pick Up only call at Reading making first stop Swindon. By all accounts the service...

www.railforums.co.uk

This one aye.

 

[Watershed]

In the new timetable there are a couple of evening services from Euston which are "set down only" at Stafford, 1H71 16:33 FX, 1H72 17:33 FX, both of which continue to Manchester via Crewe and Wilmslow. I don't know quite why, it will prevent them being shown as connecting services for a Birmingham-Manchester trip for example, so that could be one reason. It would also allow them to leave Stafford early and then just lose time waiting for a platform at Crewe.

EDIT Yes, National Rail Enquiries shows a FO journey, 18:07 New Street-Stafford 18:45, then 18:50 Stafford-Manchester 19:44 with the second train being 1H72, and FX this journey does not show because of the "set down only" stop at Stafford mentioned above.

Likely also to prevent people from saving a huge amount on the fare by splitting. There are no 'peak' restrictions on most Avanti-set fares on Fridays, so making those services set down only forces people to pay full whack for an Anytime fare at least as far as Crewe. It's completely nonsensical though, and unenforceable in practice.

 

[Signal Head]

And Stockport really should be "set down only" in the down direction because trains are allowed to leave towards Manchester earlier than their booked departure times. Not that this happens very often, but it very much looks like a case of having a cake and eating it for the operators.

I think the removal of those restrictions coincided with the introduction of the 3tph VWC service, which required the removal of a local train (Buxton line I think) to free up a path. I have wondered whether the lifting of PU/SD restrictions on WC services was forced on the operator to compensate for the loss of the local, at least in part, since it provides extra capacity between Manchester and Stockport.

 

[dvboy]

Not sure if it's still the case but some of the late night Wolverhampton trains out of Euston were set down only from Coventry onwards. Presumably this was in case they were diverted not to pass/call at Northampton (engineering or otherwise) they would arrive early and therefore could depart early.

 

[jfollows]

Not sure if it's still the case but some of the late night Wolverhampton trains out of Euston were set down only from Coventry onwards. Presumably this was in case they were diverted not to pass/call at Northampton (engineering or otherwise) they would arrive early and therefore could depart early.

I think for late trains it's less about being able to depart early but rather so that alternative transport does not need to be provided for joining passengers at these stations, when the train is diverted via an alternative route. For sure, transport or other alternative arrangements need to be made for passengers getting off, but not having to provide such for joining passengers (of whom there are likely to be few anyway, in most cases) halves the logistical problem.
Which means anyone planning to join these services at a "set down only" stop anyway needs to be very careful!
EDIT PS This only seems to happen on Sunday night/Monday morning in the new timetable.

Likely also to prevent people from saving a huge amount on the fare by splitting. There are no 'peak' restrictions on most Avanti-set fares on Fridays, so making those services set down only forces people to pay full whack for an Anytime fare at least as far as Crewe. It's completely nonsensical though, and unenforceable in practice.

Actually I think it's the other way round, it's only on Fridays that these services pick up at Stafford, so it's actually beneficial to those wanting to split fares at Stafford isn't it? But also I think all the fares are either priced by Cross Country or by West Midlands Trains anyway, not by Avanti (I split at Stafford to avoid XC prices).