Platform access - Radio 2 discussion 13:35 TODAY 9th December 2013

[OLJR]

Jeremy Vine on BBC Radio 2 will be discussing platform access without a ticket (e.g. to see off a loved one) at 13:35 today, 9th December 2013.
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It was quite an interesting discussion.

There were some emotional stories, particularly the lady who saw off her Father on a train for the last time before he was lost at sea.

There was also an interesting factoid - a platform ticket at Paddington can be obtained for ten pence.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I have never had any problems getting access to a platform to say goodbye to someone / meet someone off the train / help someone with luggage. Nor have I ever even been asked to buy a platform ticket. Always just been let through the barriers.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Platform tickets are available at all barriered stations, for a cost of 10p, assuming the ticket office knows how to issue one. I've never had to buy one, though the barrier staff at Newcastle can be obnoxious when you're wanting to use the cash machines which East Coast intelligently put train-side of the barriers.

I can imagine some very emotional stories. I'm in a long distance relationship right now, and I've come to hate Kings Cross on a Sunday afternoon.

 

[Taunton]

From long, long ago platform tickets were standard stuff of rail enthusiasts, and there were actually specific vending machines (anyone else remember them?) at all main stations, a BR standard design, red and cream coloured, where for one penny a ticket was dispensed. I wonder when they disappeared as a standard fitting. Presumably some preserved railway has got one.

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgu...a=X&ei=TPWlUtO_AaGp7QaekIHACw&ved=0CE0Q9QEwBQ

 

[tsr]

Maybe I am mistaken, but I thought some stations now charged £1 for a platform ticket. This sometimes strikes me as a bit steep - although, to be honest, if you were to spend a long time and use some free loos, a refurbished waiting area* and so on, paying a little over 10p wouldn't be a disaster.

At one or two of my local stations with barriers, I am usually waved through on the basis of a genuine explanation and/or presentation of most orange things (coat**, ticket, fruit peel for the bin...). I am a regular user and quite a few of the staff recognise me anyway.

*if the station is nice enough to have such a thing...
**which I have a genuine reason to be wearing, thank you

Preserved railways seem to be the most likely places for needing a platform ticket nowadays! But then they have to make money somehow, so I'd usually be OK with that.

 

[David Dunning]

I've never had to buy one, though the barrier staff at Newcastle can be obnoxious when you're wanting to use the cash machines which East Coast intelligently put train-side of the barriers.

.

In fairness to East Coast they were in the same place back in 1997 when I was a regular traveller on the 0144 to York .
Problem in those days was actually getting into the station some nights never mind the platform

 

[CyrusWuff]

Maybe I am mistaken, but I thought some stations now charged £1 for a platform ticket. This sometimes strikes me as a bit steep - although, to be honest, if you were to spend a long time and use some free loos, a refurbished waiting area* and so on, paying a little over 10p wouldn't be a disaster.

London Underground charge £1 for Platform Tickets. They're still only 10p at National Rail stations.

 

[D1009]

At Plymouth gateline there is a notice stating that access to the platforms is permitted, but a 50p charge is levied which goes to railway charities. However at Bristol Temple Meads there is a notice saying that the cash machines in the subway are for the use of rail passengers only, and there are none outside the barrier. Whether you can buy platform tickets at the booking office at either of these stations I don't know, but if so it's certainly not advertised.

 

[PG]

Platform tickets are available at all barriered stations, for a cost of 10p, assuming the ticket office knows how to issue one. I've never had to buy one, though the barrier staff at Newcastle can be obnoxious when you're wanting to use the cash machines which East Coast intelligently put train-side of the barriers.

Unless my memory is playing tricks on me (entirely possible but thats another story!) then 30+ years back junior me was buying a platform ticket for 10p - is this the only ticket to have escaped umpteen years price increases

 

[pt_mad]

In a way having platform tickets is a flawed system. Have a gateline to stop people entering platforms without having a ticket for travel, but allow them to buy a ticket for 10p giving them access anyway.

Sometimes with gateline tickets aren't checked on the train either.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

They used to be 20p at Leeds and they had a special Car Park / PERTIS style ticket machine to issue them on the concourse. That disappeared not that long ago in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Butts]

From long, long ago platform tickets were standard stuff of rail enthusiasts, and there were actually specific vending machines (anyone else remember them?) at all main stations, a BR standard design, red and cream coloured, where for one penny a ticket was dispensed. I wonder when they disappeared as a standard fitting. Presumably some preserved railway has got one.

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgu...a=X&ei=TPWlUtO_AaGp7QaekIHACw&ved=0CE0Q9QEwBQ

Yes I can remember those old machines - used to have one at Eastleigh when I was a kid.

 

[Goatboy]

I regularly access the platforms at barriered stations to see people off/meet them from the train. I have never once been refused access and staff are always happy to let me through.

 

[David Goddard]

I don't remember the old machines in use (but have seen them).
In the mid 1980s Ely station used to issue the same type of tickets from a roll in the booking office, before they were replaced by the introduction of APTIS, at which time they were 6p each (I still have my first two from about late 1987 somewhere).
They increased to 10p in about 1988.

 

[Nym]

I can imagine some very emotional stories. I'm in a long distance relationship right now, and I've come to hate Kings Cross on a Sunday afternoon.

I know that feeling all too well

I do loathe Gasworks Tunnels, taking my special one away

I've not had a problem with barriers at Kings Cross or Newcastle; I always advise to go to the ticket office and ask for a platform ticket if there is time; NCL have always said, "Just ask at the barrier."

 

[Tetchytyke]

In fairness to East Coast they were in the same place back in 1997 when I was a regular traveller on the 0144 to York

Yes, the actual machines didn't move, they just built the barriers around them and the catering stalls.

I don't have a problem with the barriers at Kings Cross as I just use my Z1-3 travelcard to go through, if I want to (I often don't want to, too sad).

 

[Starmill]

They used to be 20p at Leeds...

Still are Bloody annoying!

 

[chris89]

Snip
I can imagine some very emotional stories. I'm in a long distance relationship right now, and I've come to hate Kings Cross on a Sunday afternoon.

Im glad don't use barriered stations really. For Waverley must the time when i go from the same platform arrive on & Wolves for seeing off the other half no ticket checks.

When they have been on, i've asked if needed a platform ticket and told no, just go through, only one time a staff member couldn't understand why i didn't have a ticket/ was seeing someone off.

Chris

 

[andy19_64]

There is something rattling around in my head i remember being told quite a while ago about platform tickets.
As far as i can remember a platform ticket acts the same way as a train ticket as it is a contract between the TOC and the customer for being on railway property and if anything should go wrong like something falling from the roof or god forbid a train crashing onto the platform (Chester) and the person being injured the customer is insured and can make a claim. Theoretically if you do not have a valid ticket you are trespassing. I may be wrong on this so please correct me if i am wrong.

 

[PeterY]

I've never tried to buy a platform ticket but understand the reasons for them. If I remember rightly they only used to be valid for an hour.

On a similar vain, if I use my Oyster in London, I have a time limit for a journey, if I use an all zone travel ticket, I can in theory spend all day standing on a platform, if I so chose.

 

[PHILIPE]

There is something rattling around in my head i remember being told quite a while ago about platform tickets.
As far as i can remember a platform ticket acts the same way as a train ticket as it is a contract between the TOC and the customer for being on railway property and if anything should go wrong like something falling from the roof or god forbid a train crashing onto the platform (Chester) and the person being injured the customer is insured and can make a claim. Theoretically if you do not have a valid ticket you are trespassing. I may be wrong on this so please correct me if i am wrong.

Didn't a train try this a few weeks ago at Chester but merely hit the stop block in Platform 1. One passenger was injured, I believe. If you have only got a Platform ticket you would hardly be a customer. People travelling would be passengers, of course.

 

[scarby]

I've never tried to buy a platform ticket but understand the reasons for them. If I remember rightly they only used to be valid for an hour.

That is right.

If you were a spotter/enthusiast and didn't have a travel ticket, you did need to buy a platform ticket to access many stations - even some quite small ones.

They were valid for an hour via being clipped according to the time via the times printed on the ticket edges. Staff usually didn't bother with the clipping if you were a spotter and wanted to stay there for hours. Well, I don't think most staff bothered to clip platform tickets at all.

 

[Goatboy]

If you have only got a Platform ticket you would hardly be a customer.

Of course you would, what a bizarre suggestion. You have exchanged money for a service - in this case, the service is access to an area.

 

[Bevan Price]

At Plymouth gateline there is a notice stating that access to the platforms is permitted, but a 50p charge is levied which goes to railway charities. However at Bristol Temple Meads there is a notice saying that the cash machines in the subway are for the use of rail passengers only, and there are none outside the barrier. Whether you can buy platform tickets at the booking office at either of these stations I don't know, but if so it's certainly not advertised.

Makes it awkward if you need to get some cash in order to buy a ticket - and your card only works with cash machines - but not with some credit card readers ??

 

[andy19_64]

Didn't a train try this a few weeks ago at Chester but merely hit the stop block in Platform 1. One passenger was injured, I believe. If you have only got a Platform ticket you would hardly be a customer. People travelling would be passengers, of course.

On the station you are a customer on the train you are a passenger.

 

[GatwickDepress]

Platform tickets are available at all barriered stations, for a cost of 10p, assuming the ticket office knows how to issue one. I've never had to buy one, though the barrier staff at Newcastle can be obnoxious when you're wanting to use the cash machines which East Coast intelligently put train-side of the barriers.

I can imagine some very emotional stories. I'm in a long distance relationship right now, and I've come to hate Kings Cross on a Sunday afternoon.

At the very least, Kings Cross is much more romantic than Milton Keynes Central. Going in for a kiss only to have a passing goods train blare it's horn and blow my hair into their face doesn't help the atmosphere much.

Do you know the process in order to help the ticket office issue one if they don't know it themselves?

 

[BigVince76]

I may be mistaken but I remember reading part of the rules for having barriers at stations was that they had to let someone through to assist an arriving or departing passenger, is this still the case? I have never been refused entry to meet somebody, I just ask at the gateline. I think I would be a bit miffed if I had to pay to help my mum carry her bag from the train.

 

[jazza374]

I've still got my 10p platform ticket for Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch from 1979!

 

[Buttsy]

I used to have to buy them for 10p (Oxford) or 20p (Bletchley - APTIS issued) to spend the day spotting at those stations, even though they were only valid for an hour. The other stations I'd spot at, I'd have a train ticket to get there.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Platform tickets are available at all barriered stations, for a cost of 10p, assuming the ticket office knows how to issue one.

You can buy them at unbarriered stations too (if there is a ticket office, and they know how to issue one)

There is something rattling around in my head i remember being told quite a while ago about platform tickets.
As far as i can remember a platform ticket acts the same way as a train ticket as it is a contract between the TOC and the customer for being on railway property

A platform ticket does create a contract between the TOC and its customer, although one is permitted to be present on the railway without such a contract.

and if anything should go wrong like something falling from the roof or god forbid a train crashing onto the platform (Chester) and the person being injured the customer is insured and can make a claim.

If you are injured on someone else's land, they might be liable to pay you damages. This has nothing to do with insurance (it might concern insurance policies of theirs, but that is irrelevant to you).

Theoretically if you do not have a valid ticket you are trespassing.

Most railway stations are public places, and you are permitted to remain in them without a ticket. It is possible that presence in a compulsory ticket area, without a ticket, could constitute a commission of the tort of trespass - I am not sure on this point

One does not commit one of the specific criminal offences of trespassing on a railway unless one has been asked to leave (s. 16 Railway Regulation Act 1840), one is illegally crossing a line (s. 23 Regulation of Railways Act 1868), or one is on a line(/similar[sup]1[/sup]) or dangerously close to one (s. 55 British Transport Commission Act 1949).

Notwithstanding the above, trespassers, both civil and criminal, are rightfully also entitled to damages when injured, unless the trespasser accepts the risk of injury associated with a certain act. For example, someone who was taking a shortcut through a railway station, or even travelling without a ticket, would be entitled to damages if injured by a train striking the buffers. However, someone walking down the four-foot would not be entitled to damages if they were mown down by a train.

[sup]1: A mnemonic oft-used by officers of the BTP to remember the relevant places is SELECTS: Sidings, Embankments, Lines, Electrical apparatus, Cuttings, Tunnels, or Similar works. Contrary to the opinion of some officers, stations are not included in this offence.[/sup]