platform access

[former basher]

how do you gain access to platforms without buying a ticket ? is there still such things as platform tickets ? and how do station staff react to spotters and photography ? i`m thinking of mainline stations like leeds . thanks.

 

[oliverj8]

Last time I went to Leeds, I had to buy a platform ticket for about 20p. Not sure if they still do this though.

 

[Lampshade]

Leeds should be fine, most NR stations are.

 

[142094]

You'll most probably have to sign in with Network Rail at Leeds to be given a pass to get through the barriers. If you already have a ticketf ro travel, I've been on the station taking pictures before and not been troubled by staff much, apart from a Northern guard after the 7/7 bombings.

 

[moonrakerz]

Grrrr !!!

Don't start me off !

I am having a running battle with SWT who refused my wife and I access to the platforms at Salisbury when we went to meet our (unwell) daughter.
I have done a fair bit of research and I have come to the conclusion that the only way that a Station Managing company can do anything like this is to create a Compulsory Ticket Area - the requirements for which are clearly laid down by DfT. SWT seem to be operating on the principle that if they don't call it that, then the rules don't apply ! (I have also discovered that they are blatantly ignoring the rules for a Penalty Fares station, which probably means they are "fining" people unlawfully)

I have written 3 times to SWT asking what they are doing - each reply has been the standard load of PR waffle and of course has ignored my questions.
At least the local office has had the courtesy to actually reply - the MD of SWT hasn't bothered - are you there Mr Pitt ?? Next one goes recorded delivery !

I have already spoken to my MP, DfT, The Salisbury Journal and Passenger Focus.
Apparently DfT sent inspectors down to Salisbury last year over this very matter - SWT blamed the problem on temporary staff. Once DfT had gone they carried on as before.

My favourite quote from this saga ? "We stopped selling platform tickets when the barriers were put in" - Monty Python couldn't better that one !

The amazing thing is that every man and his dog at SWT is telling me that fare dodging is such a major problem that they have had to do this - yet on my visits to Salisbury since the original incident the barriers have been locked open, AND unmanned, on more than half of those occasions. All noted and recorded !

 

[former basher]

thank you all for your postings . it seems the railways can make up there own rules(not abiding by there own guidelines) but how about this for a solution , you buy the cheapest return ticket eg my local station is guiseley so if i go to leeds shopping or in the car , you could buy a return ticket to guiseley , this way you could spend all day on the station `cos you`ve got a valid ticket . you have not said which guiseley train you are catching or retuning on . so in theory you can spend all day on the platforms . your ideas please , would this work ?

 

[transportphoto]

thank you all for your postings . it seems the railways can make up there own rules(not abiding by there own guidelines) but how about this for a solution , you buy the cheapest return ticket eg my local station is guiseley so if i go to leeds shopping or in the car , you could buy a return ticket to guiseley , this way you could spend all day on the station 'cos you've got a valid ticket . you have not said which guiseley train you are catching or retuning on . so in theory you can spend all day on the platforms . your ideas please , would this work ?

Yes, but at LDS it is easier to 'inform' the Station Manager of your presence where they may ask you to sign in.

If they ask you to sign in and you do so - access to the platform is (I think) free as you are a station visitor.

If they say OK and just let you stay there - you may require a valid ticket to enter the platforms.

 

[Wyvern]

Does somebody have a link to the Network Rail guidelines on this?

 

[transportphoto]

Does somebody have a link to the Network Rail guidelines on this?

Here we Go...

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/777.aspx

 

[former basher]

Here we Go...

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/777.aspx

I`ve been to this shortcut and it clears alot of my issues up . thanks .

 

[BrummyBoy]

hi folks

the only major station im aware you can take photos for free is Birmingham New Street, not fully secure but u can take the disabeled lift straight to one of the platforms (think no. 8) thus by passing all staff, on the other hand i dont know if u can just ask but this is how i do my Birmingham photos.

 

[transportphoto]

hi folks

the only major station im aware you can take photos for free is Birmingham New Street, not fully secure but u can take the disabeled lift straight to one of the platforms (think no. 8) thus by passing all staff, on the other hand i dont know if u can just ask but this is how i do my Birmingham photos.

... and what happens when there are LM RPI's working the lift exits? - its not unknown for them to be doing so.

Also you can take photo's free at any National Rail station, they (the station operator) can't stop you (although the Police may have the powers to do so if it is a dangerous situation).

The only thing you have to pay for (often) is to get access to the platforms.

As said if you are staying for a prolonged period of time it is best to inform the Station Op. of your presence.

 

[attics26]

at Darlington there is no problem aslong as you let staff know your intentions and you keep away from platform edges and you dont use a tripod.

 

[moonrakerz]

Also you can take photo's free at any National Rail station, they (the station operator) can't stop you (although the Police may have the powers to do so if it is a dangerous situation).

I think you will find that according to the letter of the Law that is not the case.
Railway stations are classed as private property, therefore to take photographs from (not of!) that property you must have the permission of the owner.

However, NR have said:
"Network Rail's official line is that enthusiasts are very welcome and can be beneficial to security by providing extra 'eyes and ears.' All they ask is that people notify station staff and don't do anything silly like hanging over platform edges as trains are approaching, which isn't unreasonable.

Taking photographs on stations is permitted providing it is for personal use. For any commercial photography, prior permission must be sought from the appropriate train operator or, from Network Rail at their 17 major stations. On busy stations the use of a tripod may cause a dangerous obstruction to passengers and you may be asked not to use one."

I have not seen any similar statements from the TOCs concerning the stations they manage.

Of course the Police (rail and civil) now have Section 44 of the Terrorism Act 2000 to fall back on - and it has been widely abused by the police !
This act allows the police to decide that the photo you are taking - of your kids standing in front of Buckingham Palace, for example, might be of use to a terrorist, and you can then be "nicked" for this "crime".
Several MPs (who are amateur photographers) have had this done to them, and after complaints from them the police have backed off to some extent.
(BUT be very careful if you are taking phots of a Policeman who is "misbehaving" :roll::roll

 

[I T S]

how do you gain access to platforms without buying a ticket ? is there still such things as platform tickets ? and how do station staff react to spotters and photography ? i'm thinking of mainline stations like leeds . thanks.

Anytime I have visited stations I have had a ticket but staff dont seem to have a problem. I visited leeds in 2009 and the staff even took time to have a chat about the railways so I dont think you should have a problem. Just be nice and say "Alrite if i photo a few trains? "
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

how do you gain access to platforms without buying a ticket ? is there still such things as platform tickets ? and how do station staff react to spotters and photography ? i'm thinking of mainline stations like leeds . thanks.

Anytime I have visited stations I have had a ticket but staff dont seem to have a problem. I visited leeds in 2009 and the staff even took time to have a chat about the railways so I dont think you should have a problem. Just be nice and say "Alrite if i photo a few trains? "

 

[starrymarkb]

Taking photographs on stations is permitted providing it is for personal use. For any commercial photography, prior permission must be sought from the appropriate train operator or, from Network Rail at their 17 major stations.

Something that has just struck me, I've notice a few people on Youtube have now become partners which means Youtube pay them a share of the advertising their videos generate. I wonder how many of them have actually gone to NR/TOC for permission for commercial photography. Am not sure what the takings would be like on youtube, probably a few pence per day, but you are still being paid...

 

[142094]

Probably would cost a lot of money for NR to get in people to administrate that if everyone was making a few pennies from their videos. The rules are basically there for big commercial shoots, such TV/film and photograpy for newspapers and advertising. Still I wonder how many of the weel known photographers in the railway mags inform them of this?

 

[the sniper]

... and what happens when there are LM RPI's working the lift exits? - its not unknown for them to be doing so.

Exactly, they do this quite often nowadays.

Some spotters/photographers seem to actually enjoy the idea of encountering trouble at the station and dream up all sorts of unnecessary ideas in advance of a visit so they can evade 'the man'. Quite often they'll find that the man doesn't give a damn and they can just get onto to platform for free by asking, or at most, by signing in.

 

[leewoods60019]

For Leeds station you would have to buy a platform ticket (20p per person) sign in at the Network Rail office to the left of the ticket barriers. And also when I was signing into Leeds for my work expirence I noticed someone had signed in for Photography so I think you can do it in the travel centre at the specialised sales bit.

 

[transportphoto]

I think you will find that according to the letter of the Law that is not the case.
Railway stations are classed as private property, therefore to take photographs from (not of!) that property you must have the permission of the owner.

However, NR have said:
"Network Rail's official line is that enthusiasts are very welcome and can be beneficial to security by providing extra 'eyes and ears.' All they ask is that people notify station staff and don't do anything silly like hanging over platform edges as trains are approaching, which isn't unreasonable.

Taking photographs on stations is permitted providing it is for personal use. For any commercial photography, prior permission must be sought from the appropriate train operator or, from Network Rail at their 17 major stations. On busy stations the use of a tripod may cause a dangerous obstruction to passengers and you may be asked not to use one."

I have not seen any similar statements from the TOCs concerning the stations they manage.

Of course the Police (rail and civil) now have Section 44 of the Terrorism Act 2000 to fall back on - and it has been widely abused by the police !
This act allows the police to decide that the photo you are taking - of your kids standing in front of Buckingham Palace, for example, might be of use to a terrorist, and you can then be "nicked" for this "crime".
Several MPs (who are amateur photographers) have had this done to them, and after complaints from them the police have backed off to some extent.
(BUT be very careful if you are taking phots of a Policeman who is "misbehaving" :roll::roll

Sorry for the delay in replying.


Yes - the police can't stop you because you don't have permission to take photos, because you do.

But as I said - they can stop you if you care causing a danger to you or anyone else or, as you said, under S44 if they have reasons to believe that you are a terrorist!

 

[moonrakerz]

Of course the Police (rail and civil) now have Section 44 of the Terrorism Act 2000 to fall back on - and it has been widely abused by the police !

Victory ! The "little man" wins for once !!!!

"08 Jul 2010
The Home Secretary today announced the suspension of the broad stop and search powers found in section 44 of the Terrorism Act 2000."

http://www.liberty-human-rights.org...-section-44-stop-and-search-after-long-.shtml

 

[Proud Salopian]

At Shrewsbury platform 3 is still "free" as the ticket barriers don't cover it. Saying that, does anyone know if that is planned to change, i.e. new ticket barriers at Shrewsbury in order to take in platform 3?

 

[scotsman]

Watch out, ScotRail have got very officious at anyone taking videos now. They will put out an announcement for the person taking films, asking them to come to the help point. They then ask if you have permission (as ScotRail require it, according to their own enthusiast guidelines), they then ask you to leave if you don't.

HOWEVER, if you don't leave - there's little they can do, as you're not (as such) breaking any laws, because all stations are Network Rail property and are leased to the TOCs. So, if the BTP do turn up, nothing should happen.

The Scottish Network Rail managed stations (Glasgow Central; Edinburgh Waverley) are fantastic with enthusiasts, you can sign in to get past any gateline staff or auto barriers. Otherwise - don't bother! Only the occasional ill-informed TOC staff member will give you grief, "You're not allowed to take photos...."

 

[Aictos]

EQUIPMENT AND SAFETY

9. Stations and railway premises

(2) Where the entrance to or exit from any platform or station is via a manned or an automatic ticket barrier no person shall enter or leave the station, except with permission from an authorised person, without passing through the barrier in the correct manner.

Therefore as far as I am aware that should cover people going onto the platforms to say goodbye to family or equally rail photographers.

CONTROL OF PREMISES

13. Unauthorised access and loitering

(2) No person shall loiter on the railway if asked to leave by an authorised person.

Which is also useful....

 

[pinkpanther]

Grrrr !!!

Don't start me off !

I am having a running battle with SWT who refused my wife and I access to the platforms at Salisbury when we went to meet our (unwell) daughter.

It could well be SWT policy - I had a similar blank refusal at Bournemouth when meeting my partner a couple of weeks ago. When I ask the staff member in question for the reason he was somewhat relucant to elaborate, citing only a vague concern about "too many people coming through the barriers". When I asked about platform tickets, he said they didn't sell them.

Before anyone asks, I was perfectly polite to him; despite this he appeared evasive and unwilling to engage.

 

[Greenback]

I've never thought it was necessaru to go on to the platform to meet someone unless they had difficulty walking or a load of luggage. Even before barriers, my girlfriend or my family used to wait by the station entrance rather than on the platform!

 

[pinkpanther]

I've never thought it was necessaru to go on to the platform to meet someone unless they had difficulty walking or a load of luggage. Even before barriers, my girlfriend or my family used to wait by the station entrance rather than on the platform!

I've always thought of it as rather a civilised way to greet people (or to be greeted). Certainly better than standing next to a ticket barrier, potentially in the way of people passing through it.

FWIW the waiting areas at Bournemouth are on the platform side of the barriers, as is the cafe where I'd normally grab a coffee when I'm waiting for someone to arrive.

 

[Greenback]

You are obviously more civilised in Bournemouth than us Taffs!

I'm not knocking anyone who wants to go on the platform for whatever reason, obviously there's more reason to go through the barriers in Bournemouth if you can't get a cuppa!

 

[alexdodds]

Watch out, ScotRail have got very officious at anyone taking videos now. They will put out an announcement for the person taking films, asking them to come to the help point. They then ask if you have permission (as ScotRail require it, according to their own enthusiast guidelines), they then ask you to leave if you don't.

HOWEVER, if you don't leave - there's little they can do, as you're not (as such) breaking any laws, because all stations are Network Rail property and are leased to the TOCs. So, if the BTP do turn up, nothing should happen.

That is why i still think ScotRail are more strict with photography than any other TOC and how is an announcement ment to be put out by staff at an unstaffed station.

 

[pinkpanther]

You are obviously more civilised in Bournemouth than us Taffs!

Nowt to do with Bournemouth - I'm an ex-pat Northerner. Show me a place doing stotties and I'll be there with a pint of broon and a lump of coal at the ready.

I'm not knocking anyone who wants to go on the platform for whatever reason, obviously there's more reason to go through the barriers in Bournemouth if you can't get a cuppa!

It's either that, enjoy the sight of the barriers jamming on people or stand outside and inhale the bus fumes. The cafe would win every time if it wasn't for the barriers and associated "rules".