Platform allocations

[158801]

I'm interested who is responsible for allocating platforms for trains at short notice.

Let's pick a TOC operated station (rather than a Network Rail operated one) - I'll pick Doncaster

Departing from platform 4 is the 1210 to Edinburgh and the 1240 to Cleethorpes.

The Edinburgh train has been delayed by 40 minutes, the Cleethorpes train by 10 - so both are due at 1250.

The Edinburgh train is signalled into Platform 4 first. The Cleethorpes train is then made to wait outside the station for a further 6 minutes whilst the Edinburgh train undertakes station duties.

Meanwhile, the adjacent platform 8 is empty.

Do the Network Rail signallers dictate to the LNER station what happens or is it up to LNER (who operate the station) to ask the Network Rail signallers to move the Cleethorpes train to platform 8 ?

 

[MP393]

Ultimately it’s the signallers decision and that have regulation policies to follow which usually guides them into what they do. The station staff won’t have much say in at all. I used to be station staff, and whilst we could request alterations to the signal box where I worked, for any sort of reason, they would accommodate where they could but ultimately it is their decision and there could well have been a behind the scenes reason for routing them the way they did

 

[endofthetunnel]

Departing from platform 4 is the 1210 to Edinburgh and the 1240 to Cleethorpes.

The Edinburgh train has been delayed by 40 minutes, the Cleethorpes train by 10 - so both are due at 1250.

The Edinburgh train is signalled into Platform 4 first. The Cleethorpes train is then made to wait outside the station for a further 6 minutes whilst the Edinburgh train undertakes station duties.

Meanwhile, the adjacent platform 8 is empty.

Was this a specific example? I don’t remember this from yesterday.

In general we move trains to the adjacent platform fairly regularly but there are times when station staff request not altering booked workings at short notice - normally when passenger assistance is required and they are in position ready to offer it.
Similarly if there was perhaps a Leeds bound service due out of the station shortly, or something arriving into 6/7/8/goods, moving to platform 8 could create an upcoming clash over Marshgate junction rather than parallel departure from 4.

 

[IanXC]

Its actually very inconsistent across the Network. Whilst in some places the Signaller is indeed busy managing platforming, its also true that there are places where station staff are contracted to do this work on behalf of the signaller and will be calling the signaller to tell them how to platform things.

 

[LowLevel]

Depends where you are. Complicated stations quite often have a supervisor/duty manager or whatever you want to call it who deals with train operations and platforming and the signallers work to their direction. Nottingham as an example has an operations supervisor who sets up and runs the station working with the signaller and depot.

 

[Railcar]

Platform allocation at East Croydon can be mysterious. A change from 1 or 2 to 3 or 4 will send crowds of people running/brisk walking/hobbling up those long slopes to the ticket hall. The change often occurs five or ten minutes before a scheduled time, barely enough to make the transfer.

 

[Adtrainsam]

Stratford’s platform alterations can be amusing* at times.

Only last Friday was the 15:54 Braintree service altered from Platform 10 to Platform 10A to Platform 8 in the space of 5 minutes.

There were plenty who missed it; either because they weren’t listening properly or they couldn’t physically make it. It’s quite the workout too, especially for those who walked to the end of the platform or those reliant on lifts. Fighting through Stratford’s crowded subways and platforms is challenging at the best of times

*Amusing if you’re people-watching from a warm room, less so if you’re trying to catch the train.

 

[boiledbeans2]

Stratford’s platform alterations can be amusing* at times.

Only last Friday was the 15:54 Braintree service altered from Platform 10 to Platform 10A to Platform 8 in the space of 5 minutes.

There were plenty who missed it; either because they weren’t listening properly or they couldn’t physically make it. It’s quite the workout too, especially for those who walked to the end of the platform or those reliant on lifts. Fighting through Stratford’s crowded subways and platforms is challenging at the best of times

*Amusing if you’re people-watching from a warm room, less so if you’re trying to catch the train.

This reminds me of an interesting incident.

5 minutes before departure at Waterloo, a platform change was announced (automatic announcer) from platform 9 to 11 of a Class 159 service. I arrived at platform 11 and it was empty. The train was still at platform 9. All the station screens also showed the train at platform 11. The screen at platform 9 was showing a generic message which usually appears when the platform hasn't been announced. I boarded the train at platform 9, so I wasn't sure if it was corrected later.

This should be the train in question

Realtime Trains | 1050 London Waterloo to Salisbury | 25/11/2023

Real-time train running information for 1050 departure from London Waterloo to Salisbury on 25/11/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I think something is messed up. RTT shows the same train arriving on platform 7 half an hour earlier (Unless I don't remember the incident correctly and the automatic announcer actually stated a change from platform 7 to 9, and the train was actually on platform 7).

Realtime Trains | 0848 Salisbury to London Waterloo | 25/11/2023

Real-time train running information for 0848 departure from Salisbury to London Waterloo on 25/11/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Adrian1980uk]

This reminds me of an interesting incident.

5 minutes before departure at Waterloo, a platform change was announced (automatic announcer) from platform 9 to 11 of a Class 159 service. I arrived at platform 11 and it was empty. The train was still at platform 9. All the station screens also showed the train at platform 11. The screen at platform 9 was showing a generic message which usually appears when the platform hasn't been announced. I boarded the train at platform 9, so I wasn't sure if it was corrected later.

This should be the train in question

Realtime Trains | 1050 London Waterloo to Salisbury | 25/11/2023

Real-time train running information for 1050 departure from London Waterloo to Salisbury on 25/11/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I think something is messed up. RTT shows the same train arriving on platform 7 half an hour earlier (Unless I don't remember the incident correctly and the automatic announcer actually stated a change from platform 7 to 9, and the train was actually on platform 7).

Realtime Trains | 0848 Salisbury to London Waterloo | 25/11/2023

Real-time train running information for 0848 departure from Salisbury to London Waterloo on 25/11/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

It's very easy for people in control rooms looking at screens to get lost in the world of data showing different things and forget to ask where is it physically...

 

[GardenRail]

Signaller has the ultimate say and authority. Station staff can request alterations, as can the station coordinators etc.... as MP393, above said.

 

[louis97]

This reminds me of an interesting incident.

5 minutes before departure at Waterloo, a platform change was announced (automatic announcer) from platform 9 to 11 of a Class 159 service. I arrived at platform 11 and it was empty. The train was still at platform 9. All the station screens also showed the train at platform 11. The screen at platform 9 was showing a generic message which usually appears when the platform hasn't been announced. I boarded the train at platform 9, so I wasn't sure if it was corrected later.

This should be the train in question

Realtime Trains | 1050 London Waterloo to Salisbury | 25/11/2023

Real-time train running information for 1050 departure from London Waterloo to Salisbury on 25/11/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I think something is messed up. RTT shows the same train arriving on platform 7 half an hour earlier (Unless I don't remember the incident correctly and the automatic announcer actually stated a change from platform 7 to 9, and the train was actually on platform 7).

Realtime Trains | 0848 Salisbury to London Waterloo | 25/11/2023

Real-time train running information for 0848 departure from Salisbury to London Waterloo on 25/11/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Looking at the data it left from platform 7, but at 104317 was interposed into the berth for platform 9. I suspect this was when the automatic platform alteration happened. I'll have a look at the data to see why RTT still showed it leaving from Platform 9, I suspect I know why.

 

[Horizon22]

Depends where you are. Complicated stations quite often have a supervisor/duty manager or whatever you want to call it who deals with train operations and platforming and the signallers work to their direction. Nottingham as an example has an operations supervisor who sets up and runs the station working with the signaller and depot.

Yes and no. Ultimately a station controller / operations supervisor will be requesting platforms and routes, but of course the signaller has the overall control. Normally the requests are aligned, but sometimes what is beneficial for a controller is not for a signaller and there may be a conflict between the immediate term and longer-term platform allocations where a signaller via a traffic management tool might be able to see a conflict in 2 hours time.

Most major terminal stations have a controller role which may also double as an announcer with responsibility for wider CIS.

Even in such cases, the signaller can still make a change or forget a request occasionally. With the amount certain stations have away from the base timetable, this can be a daily occurence.