"Please avoid using any third party applications"

[Jamiescott1]

First time today hearing an announcement at London Paddington.

"This is an announcement for passengers to please listen to announcements and view departure screens. Please do not use any 3rd party apps" (or something to that affect)

 

[takno]

First time today hearing an announcement at London Paddington.

"This is an announcement for passengers to please listen to announcements and view departure screens. Please do not use any 3rd party apps" (or something to that affect)

They've been saying that for a while. Doesn't strike me as particularly cunning to active advertise the existence of early platform information on 3rd-party apps by asking you to *nudge nudge, wink wink* not look at them, but I'm sure they know best.

 

[Jamiescott1]

They've been saying that for a while. Doesn't strike me as particularly cunning to active advertise the existence of early platform information on 3rd-party apps by asking you to *nudge nudge, wink wink* not look at them, but I'm sure they know best.

First time hearing it. Although I'm rarely on platforms as I use a third party app to board the train that is inevitably waiting at the platform before its been announced

 

[Bletchleyite]

They've been saying that for a while. Doesn't strike me as particularly cunning to active advertise the existence of early platform information on 3rd-party apps by asking you to *nudge nudge, wink wink* not look at them, but I'm sure they know best.

I suspect* it's more aimed at people reading the predicted platform on Trainline and thinking it's gospel rather than at those who use Realtime Trains who probably know how to use it and what its flaws are.

* That said, I do know some Paddington staff really hate RTT and can sometimes get quite angry about its use, to the point of lying about what a given train is as happened to me once. He actually gave up and let me through the gateline in the end, though. I don't think he liked me being stood to the side of his gateline looking knowingly at the train I knew was the correct one

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Are some 3rd party apps "ahead of the game" with respect to showing the correct platforms for train departures, particularly so those which have been subject to some late platform change, whilst other apps, perhaps, aren't so?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are some 3rd party apps "ahead of the game" with respect to showing the correct platforms for train departures, particularly so those which have been subject to some late platform change, whilst other apps, perhaps, aren't so?

The biggest problem does seem to be people using Trainline and reading the predicted platform as definitely the correct one. There are also enthusiasts who use RTT and get in the way, but most are sensible.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The biggest problem does seem to be people using Trainline and reading the predicted platform as definitely the correct one.

Isn't that possibly reflective of the number of folk who have, likely, booked their tickets through Trainline? Try to avoid them, but is this particular outfit relatively poor at flagging up last minute (booked train) platform changes?

 

[Class93]

I suspect* it's more aimed at people reading the predicted platform on Trainline and thinking it's gospel rather than at those who use Realtime Trains who probably know how to use it and what its flaws are.

* That said, I do know some Paddington staff really hate RTT and can sometimes get quite angry about its use, to the point of lying about what a given train is as happened to me once. He actually gave up and let me through the gateline in the end, though. I don't think he liked me being stood to the side of his gateline looking knowingly at the train I knew was the correct one

I think what you mean to say is they hate not being in control

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I'm sure Trainline and RTT are using official Network Rail train running data feeds with their full approval.

 

[Robski_]

Are some 3rd party apps "ahead of the game" with respect to showing the correct platforms for train departures, particularly so those which have been subject to some late platform change, whilst other apps, perhaps, aren't so?

All apps using National Rail feeds are meant to hide platform numbers where they are accompanied with a suppression instruction. Paddington suppresses platform information until the train is ready to board (and re-suppress them when the train is ready to leave).

Most apps and websites comply by this rule. Trainline "gets around it" by using platform information from what I think is a Network Rail source and shows them as estimated platforms - the National Rail license stipulates that only the platform information supplied by National Rail is bound by the suppression instruction (although some apps, such as mine, voluntarily suppress them out of view to prevent confusion).

 

[takno]

It's probably fair to point out that blindly following possibly-out-of-date information is a pain for the train staff having to deal with it. I imagine some apps are more correct than others, and ultimately if you choose to use something which accesses the signalling data like realtimetrains then you should be making an informed choice and be ready to run/miss it. Late changes do happen, the feed is sometimes delayed, and occasionally messages get missed. I wouldn't say that the on-platform systems are generally any better though.

I guess there's a fair point to be made for people from other countries where the platform in the printed timetable is always respected, and so if trainline issued them an itinerary with the platform numbers on then they will quite likely be wrong. I'm not convinced that's anything to do with it though - the gateline staff at paddington are quite aggressive about only opening gatelines at the last possible second, and forcing you through the manual gate so that they can check you aren't sneaking onto a train a minute early.

 

[STINT47]

I'm not sure how they can enforce this? I use the map on Open Train Times on my phone to locate my train and get an overview of what's happening on the GWML. If someone tries to ee what um doing on my phone and or to stop me using the website they'll be politely told to mind their own business.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not sure how they can enforce this? I use the map on Open Train Times on my phone to locate my train and get an overview of what's happening on the GWML. If someone tries to ee what um doing on my phone and or to stop me using the website they'll be politely told to mind their own business.

They can't. Though they can tell you to get off the platform if you've gone there before the train is displayed.

 

[bcarmicle]

If the announcement was as written in the first post, then I’d have interpreted it as a (unduly excessive/poorly phrased) reminder for passengers to pay attention to announcements rather than be distracted by their phones and miss their trains.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Why can’t they just show in advance what the platform will be, like DB?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why can’t they just show in advance what the platform will be, like DB?

Lord knows. It works fine showing it in advance at most other stations in the country.

 

[Watershed]

Yet another symptom of most British TOCs' inability to run a whelk stall and the complete lack of interest in providing good customer service.

You simply don't get this nonsense on well-run railways abroad. It's completely unnecessary - even if you decide you want to lock the train whilst it's being cleaned (which many TOCs both here and abroad manage to do without), there's no justification for the inane secrecy about platform numbers or keeping people behind a barrier until the train is ready to board. They could queue along the platform just fine.

It only causes frustration, stress and anxiety - not to mention unnecessary delays as they inevitably still insist on checking every ticket in minute detail, despite boarding starting only minutes before departure. Not exactly a great start to the journey!

 

[MrJeeves]

They can't. Though they can tell you to get off the platform if you've gone there before the train is displayed.

This happened to me at Inverness when I was waiting on the platform before the train to Glasgow arrived. Politely asked to wait behind the gateline, and politely obliged.

Then again, if the same happened when I was at Euston, I'd be a bit more worried judging by the five minutes' notice I typically seem to get between the platform being announced and the train's departure.

 

[Undaunted]

I was at Waterloo last Friday at around 15:30 waiting for the 15:50 to Yeovil Junction with the departure screens showing "platforms 5-11" (seems to be standard at Waterloo to narrow down where trains will be departing from, which seems quite helpful to me).

Anyway, a class 159 was sitting at platform 7 with the rear coach destination indicator helpfully showing Yeovil Junction. Needless to say, there were quite a few people already on board...

 

[WF4HA5HE]

First time today hearing an announcement at London Paddington.

"This is an announcement for passengers to please listen to announcements and view departure screens. Please do not use any 3rd party apps" (or something to that affect)

Its quite good advise tbh, i used to work in customer relations for a TOC and the amount of complaints and refund requests we received because people had missed their train beause they were looking on the trainline app for the platform and not the actual departure boards was insane.

 

[Robski_]

Its quite good advise tbh, i used to work in customer relations for a TOC and the amount of complaints and refund requests we received because people had missed their train beause they were looking on the trainline app for the platform and not the actual departure boards was insane.

That's the TOCs fault. Apps only show the information they are relayed. If your TOC had bothered to make sure that information was flowing correctly, then those incidents would not have happened.

 

[mangyiscute]

Personally, I think it's best if people don't go on the platform until it is announced, even if you know what platform it is due to RTT or something similar - most likely you are just going to get in the way, and if you wait at the entrance to the platform you will get on first anyway without causing any staff members any issues.
Once the platform is announced the railway is ready for you to board, so that's when you should join the train.

 

[DelW]

It seems to be a peculiar obsession with some termini (Euston being a prime example) to keep passengers off the platform until the last possible moment. Yet through stations, up to and including the size of New Street, seem to have no problem allowing passengers onto platforms well ahead of departure times. Even at Waterloo, passengers are quite often allowed onto the platform before or as the incoming train arrives, and it doesn't seem to cause any problems.

 

[Horizon22]

Google Maps is awful for information during disruption. Pretty sure it has the base timetable on it with platforms and "estimated" delays. It isn't a Darwin feed so it can just be plain wrong.

I've had blazing rows in the past with people before pointing at their phone on a platform where there train is when the completely vacant platform evidently shows it is either cancelled / delayed or subject to a platform change

That being said that sort of announcement is overkill, although I guess station staff are also fed up with having the same conversations with passengers over and over again!

That's the TOCs fault. Apps only show the information they are relayed. If your TOC had bothered to make sure that information was flowing correctly, then those incidents would not have happened.

Not really - Trainline often lists (in small grey writing) "estimated" next to the platform (as per the daily base timetable) so if you go too early before it's actually confirmed you can easily be on the wrong platform, especially at multi-platform stations or London terminals which are regularly subject to change

 

[STINT47]

I tend to wait for the platform to be announced up to a point. If it gets to close to departure and as long as it's not during a period of service disruption then I will head for the train regardless of if it's been announced.

As others have stated some stations seem to take a perverse pleasure from announcing trains late and causing people stress and anxiety. Asking for goodwil / compliance from passengers when waiting can only really be expected if the industry shows respect and goodwill to passengers in return.

 

[Horizon22]

Why can’t they just show in advance what the platform will be, like DB?

What if it changes short-notice? You'd have complaints about people missing trains as they were on the wrong platform!

The biggest problem does seem to be people using Trainline and reading the predicted platform as definitely the correct one. There are also enthusiasts who use RTT and get in the way, but most are sensible.

Trainline (and Google Maps) are often station staff's worst ones. People often go "ohhhhhh" when you point out the 'predicted' text. Even with something like RTT and [insert train map application of preference] I still generally hover around the nearest gateline as opposed to waiting on the platform if waiting for a long-distance / delayed train at a London terminus for example. A few others are normally doing similar in such occasions that I do.

Trainline does at least correct once boarding/platform is confirmed.

 

[Freightmaster]

It seems to be a peculiar obsession with some termini (Euston being a prime example) to keep passengers off the platform until the last possible moment. Yet through stations, up to and including the size of New Street, seem to have no problem allowing passengers onto platforms well ahead of departure times. Even at Waterloo, passengers are quite often allowed onto the platform before or as the incoming train arrives, and it doesn't seem to cause any problems.

Out of curiosity, what's Blackpool North like these days?



MARK

 

[Robski_]

Not really - Trainline often lists (in small grey writing) "estimated" next to the platform (as per the daily base timetable) so if you go too early before it's actually confirmed you can easily be on the wrong platform, especially at multi-platform stations or London terminals which are regularly subject to change

They wouldn't be shown as "estimated" if the platform was confirmed in good time. Granted Trainline should make the estimated text more present, and it shouldn't be showing estimated platforms when they are suppressed. However, some TOCs (and Network Rail) are also quite poor at maintaining their Darwin workstations, so sometimes actual/confirmed platform information isn't relayed at all.

The whole point of Darwin is to be the single source of truth. Information shown on platform displays is meant to be consistent across all apps, websites and other media.

 

[MrJeeves]

However, some TOCs (and Network Rail) are also quite poor at maintaining their Darwin workstations, so sometimes actual/confirmed platform information isn't relayed at all.

Love KGX where it seems like every platform is always suppressed.

 

[Horizon22]

They wouldn't be shown as "estimated" if the platform was confirmed in good time. Granted Trainline should make the estimated text more present, and it shouldn't be showing estimated platforms when they are suppressed. However, some TOCs (and Network Rail) are also quite poor at maintaining their Darwin workstations, so sometimes actual/confirmed platform information isn't relayed at all.

The whole point of Darwin is to be the single source of truth. Information shown on platform displays is meant to be consistent across all apps, websites and other media.

What like an hour in advance? Yes platforms should be advertised in good time, but there are plenty of valid reasons why they are also surpressed to allow for cleaning, coupling, catering, crowding etc. People wandering around potentially narrow platforms before a busy inward arrival has come into the station is also not good practice. Many services are advertised immediately although there are exceptions and certain places where it is not managed well (looking at you, Euston). Very very rarely does confirmed platform not get "relayed at all".

Platform advertisements are highly unlikely to be done on a Darwin workstation panel, and instead uses the CIS controller software as provided by the operator (e.g. Worldline)

Otherwise you've hit nail on the head:

Granted Trainline should make the estimated text more present, and it shouldn't be showing estimated platforms when they are suppressed.