Please help - fare evasion

[Lucy17]

Hello

As i've seen similar to another thread on this forum, my daughters friend who is at university college Birmingham student was caught by a ticket officer at Birmingham Snow Hill as she had a child ticket from Birmingham Moor street, even though she came from Leamington Spa (Yes I know this is wrong and me and my friend (her mum) have told her this).

The worst thing is that she has done this 60 times over the past 7 months as shown on her Trainline app. The ticket officer interviewed her under caution and asked if she had done this before which she admitted to, and the officer said they will check how many times she has done this and be in contact.

She has never been received a penalty or fine before in her life, or any convictions. She certainly won't be doing this again.

What is the worst possible outcome for this? Would it be a heavy fine or even jail? Any help would be very much appreciated!

Thanks,

Lucy

 

[yorkie]

Would it be a heavy fine or even jail?

Don't worry. Definitely not jail. It will be a fine, the company's costs, and a criminal record, if the matter goes to court and she is found guilty.

However if she can agree an out of court settlement with the company, then she could avoid a fine and criminal record. I don't know how likely it would be that the company would reach a settlement, nor what amount they may require to settle, but it's in both parties interests to do this.

 

[Brissle Girl]

The difference in fare between a peak return from Leamington and from Moor St is about £12, so multiply that by 60 and then add a couple of hundred for costs. So an out of court settlement is likely to be close to £1,000 (most of which should have been paid of course), and I would expect if it goes to court to be north of that figure given the fine, costs and victim surcharge.

I guess one advantage of online ticketing systems from the railway’s point of view is it does make it easier to ascertain how long this type of fraud has been going on when someone is caught. I suspect they may also use information on ticketing purchases to spot this type of fraud and put in place checks at the relevant stations to combat it.

 

[SussexMan]

I guess one advantage of online ticketing systems from the railway’s point of view is it does make it easier to ascertain how long this type of fraud has been going on when someone is caught.

The OP was using the Trainline app. They have access to this data?

 

[Brissle Girl]

That’s a very good and interesting question. Their privacy statement is clear that they can share data with the relevant authorities, including police, for the purposes of crime prevention. Not so clear that they can share directly with the TOCs or their appointed agents for that specific purpose though. Maybe there is an administrative process whereby the TOC asks the police who get it?

I’d be somewhat surprised if the TOCs don’t have the ability to get the data though. It would seem a fairly obvious hole that would have been filled by now.

Sorry, this is a bit OT to the OPs question, other the fact that it was stated that they would be checking previous similar usage, which by implications would be from Trainline.

 

[RPI]

That’s a very good and interesting question. Their privacy statement is clear that they can share data with the relevant authorities, including police, for the purposes of crime prevention. Not so clear that they can share directly with the TOCs or their appointed agents for that specific purpose though. Maybe there is an administrative process whereby the TOC asks the police who get it?

I’d be somewhat surprised if the TOCs don’t have the ability to get the data though. It would seem a fairly obvious hole that would have been filled by now.

Sorry, this is a bit OT to the OPs question, other the fact that it was stated that they would be checking previous similar usage, which by implications would be from Trainline.

Where information is required for the investigation or apprehension of an offender then the trainline are required to provide information to the TOC, that's because the TOC act as prosecutors and investigators, as RPI'S we have to complete a GDPR request form and submit to the trainline payment investigation team, this is a detailed form where you have to declare what information you require and why you need said information, if your request is acceptable then the trainline reply with the relevant information. Hope this helps

 

[Brissle Girl]

Hope this helps

Perfect, thank you.

 

[island]

The OP was using the Trainline app. They have access to this data?

Yes. They just need to ask. There is a carve-out from data protection law for data used to detect and prevent crime, which this would come under.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello

As i've seen similar to another thread on this forum, my daughters friend who is at university college Birmingham student was caught by a ticket officer at Birmingham Snow Hill as she had a child ticket from Birmingham Moor street, even though she came from Leamington Spa (Yes I know this is wrong and me and my friend (her mum) have told her this).

The worst thing is that she has done this 60 times over the past 7 months as shown on her Trainline app. The ticket officer interviewed her under caution and asked if she had done this before which she admitted to, and the officer said they will check how many times she has done this and be in contact.

She has never been received a penalty or fine before in her life, or any convictions. She certainly won't be doing this again.

What is the worst possible outcome for this? Would it be a heavy fine or even jail? Any help would be very much appreciated!

Thanks,

Lucy

Hi - I suggest getting in touch with her students union welfare office / welfare service (her doing this) as a matter of urgency to seek their help and advice. When she get the formal letter from the railway or on its behalf - come back here for advice.

 

[Lucy17]

Hi - I suggest getting in touch with her students union welfare office / welfare service (her doing this) as a matter of urgency to seek their help and advice. When she get the formal letter from the railway or on its behalf - come back here for advice.

Hi - thank you everyone for the replies and advice!

She has only used the Trainline app for her tickets which I know the railway company will look into as it will show she has done this 60 times, which she will admit too. If court is the outcome, it is likely we will contact a solicitor.

However, what would be the outcome for this? She's never been fined or had any convictions.

She knows she has done wrong and is worried about jail time.

 

[Dai Corner]

As the passenger is at University she must be over 16.

Would there be an additional penalty over and above what's already been discussed for using child tickets?

 

[221129]

However, what would be the outcome for this? She's never been fined or had any convictions.

About £600 of avoided fares to be paid back, plus between £150-250 costs, A fine between £100-400 and victim surcharge. I'd tell her to get saving!

 

[Fawkes Cat]

She knows she has done wrong and is worried about jail time

Your daughter's friend* will not go to jail. My understanding (and as always I am happy to be corrected if wrong) is that the law does allow prison as a sentence - but the sentencing guidelines don’t. So prison will only be considered for persistent offenders who have already been to court and fined several times. I think the only case we’ve heard about here was a repeat offender with several other charges against them and a drug problem - essentially they were sent to prison as the only way to make them accept medical treatment.

*Edited to correct this. Apologies.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi - thank you everyone for the replies and advice!

She has only used the trainline app for her tickets which I know the railway company will look into as it will show she has done this 60 times, which she will admit too. If court is the outcome, it is likely we will contact a solicitor.

However, what would be the outcome for this? She's never been fined or had any convictions.

She knows she has done wrong and is worried about jail time.

As others say I suspect you are looking at about £1k. If you use a solicitor it will cost in their fees obv. Students Union may have a tie up deal with one that offers students reduced fees or no fees. I would say main reason to use solicitor will be if risk of going to court and then as a way of mitigating and due to prospects of criminal record. I would aim to negotiate out of court settlement with them if possible. You could so this when they write to the lass as a follow up to her being caught. People on here will advise of the sort of things to say in response to that.

Has she yet had any letters on behalf of the rail company about this? That is what needs watching out for and responding to appropriately.

The Moor Street / Snow Hill ticket fare evasion must be so common it must be like 'shooting a fish in a barrel' for the enforcement staff!

 

[Brissle Girl]

Indeed, one of the regrettable disadvantages of app tickets is it increases the opportunity for what I will call anonymous fraud. Eg, one no longer has to look someone in the eyes at the gate line and ask for a ticket from the previous stop but can purchase it on the app and activate the barriers without human contact.

Though as has been said, the railway is wise to these abuses, so whilst you might get away once or twice, if done regularly then really it’s only a matter of time before you are caught.

 

[HSP 2]

IIRC Leamington Spar has barriers so how did she get on and off the station?

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello

As i've seen similar to another thread on this forum, my daughters friend who is at university college Birmingham student was caught by a ticket officer at Birmingham Snow Hill as she had a child ticket from Birmingham Moor street, even though she came from Leamington Spa (Yes I know this is wrong and me and my friend (her mum) have told her this).

The worst thing is that she has done this 60 times over the past 7 months as shown on her Trainline app. The ticket officer interviewed her under caution and asked if she had done this before which she admitted to, and the officer said they will check how many times she has done this and be in contact.

She has never been received a penalty or fine before in her life, or any convictions. She certainly won't be doing this again.

What is the worst possible outcome for this? Would it be a heavy fine or even jail? Any help would be very much appreciated!

Thanks,

Lucy

Also - other thing to do would be to get a season ticket for the route ASAP as that would show intent to 'go straight' from now on, unless railcard tickets work out cheaper than a season, in which case at least get a railcard ASAP. It sends a signal that you have 'learned a lesson'.

 

[Brissle Girl]

Also - other thing to do would be to get a season ticket for the route ASAP as that would show intent to 'go straight' from now on, unless railcard tickets work out cheaper than a season, in which case at least get a railcard ASAP. It sends a signal that you have 'learned a lesson'.

That would normally be excellent advice, although under the current conditions I doubt any students are travelling, so I suspect that opportunity has passed.

 

[island]

IIRC Leamington Spar has barriers so how did she get on and off the station?

The barriers there, in my experience, are rarely staffed.

 

[SteveM70]

Indeed, one of the regrettable disadvantages of app tickets is it increases the opportunity for what I will call anonymous fraud.

Yes, but on the flip side as we’ve seen apps create a highly personalised purchase history and makes establishing a pattern of behaviour loads easier

 

[Dai Corner]

The barriers there, in my experience, are rarely staffed.

If required, a child single to Warwick is 95p

 

[WesternLancer]

That would normally be excellent advice, although under the current conditions I doubt any students are travelling, so I suspect that opportunity has passed.

That's a fair point of course.