Plusbus Reactions

[Esker-pades]

I use Plusbus quite a bit. Usually without issues, but it isn't abnormal for a driver to not know what the ticket is or think it's a train ticket.

This time, the driver had a good old stare, then asked me to pass it to them, stared some more, took a picture of it with his phone, handed it back, and let me on.

Anyone else have 'fun' plusbus experiences?

EDIT: /lh (light-hearted) tone indicator

 

[RJ]

Did he step out of the cab before using his mobile phone?

Rarely had issues with them to be honest. Only time I recall was with Kinchbus in Loughborough, who present themselves as this super friendly bus company. I got on the Sprint service on the university campus with a Loughborough Plusbus and the driver rejected it. In three years of using the service almost daily, she was the only one to give problems and was not a regular driver on the route. She claimed the tickets were being done away with and not accepted any more. I made the point that it was advertised online. I didn’t make a big thing of it and paid for another ticket.

I called their customer services so I could get a refund of the additional fare paid. However they weren’t interested and never got back to me. In my view the service left a lot to be desired.

People probably complained about me when I drove the TfL service 607 between Uxbridge and White City as there was a raft of people getting on with Slough Plusbus tickets and I was probably the only driver who wouldn’t accept them!

 

[route101]

Used to have no issues on Lothian Buses until one day a driver refused my plus bus ticket. He claimed it was a rail ticket.

 

[kkong]

On Stagecoach Bluebird a few weeks ago.

"What is that? British Rail?"

 

[Lewisham2221]

Generally speaking, they get a passing mention during initial training and there's probably a poster or two on a notice board in an obscure corner of the depot/canteen. Drivers can then, easily, go weeks if not months at a time without actually seeing one in the flesh. And when they do see one, it will inevitably look significantly different to the last one they saw. If it's printed on paper roll stock, it will almost certainly have a QR code which the driver and/or passenger will almost certainly expect will scan on the ticket machine (it won't), increasing the likelihood of a driver feeling like they should reject it. Then the general spectrum of driver ticket acceptance, ranging from the drivers who will accept virtually any piece of paper or mobile phone screen waved vaguely in their direction, to the ones who would probably argue the validity of a ticket that they themselves had just issued - to a friend or relative.

It's all a bit of a minefield, but the fact they are generally pretty uncommon to see is probably the biggest reason for the reactions. Closely followed by the vague training, largely owing to the fact that the bus companies don't make much from the tickets so can't really be bothered going to the effort to brief drivers more thoroughly.

 

[Pit_buzzer]

"that's a train ticket mate" no further discussion, pay or get off
The tickets a brilliant idea but that attitude has put me off using it

 

[lightning76]

@Lewisham2221 has it about right. Drivers are instructed, not necessarily completely accurately by a person with full knowledge, on the validity of tickets in a classroom when they join a company / pass their test. IME, there is no further ongoing training. (Not unique to the bus industry, qv the "Disputes & Prosecutions sub forum.)

At the depot at which I was supervisor, a major operator's opco in the SW, notices about tickets were submerged by other notices and the belief of management that anything could be solved by plastering a sheet of A4 over any static surface.

Consequently drivers are unlikely to be aware of any ticket they do not encounter regularly. Supervisory staff, at least in my personal experience, are also given no additional training in this field. In addition, the complexity of anything to do with rail ticketing means it is exceptionally difficult for anybody not "in the know" to give advice.

At my former depot, we (occasionally) encountered a variety of rail tickets, including seasons (on grey CCST tickets, not shown in our company issued literature) from xxx Plusbus to yyy, and tickets from various origins to zzz BUS, with no explanation of what this might mean or where it might be valid. No wonder our drivers were confused!

 

[asb]

Then the general spectrum of driver ticket acceptance, ranging from the drivers who will accept virtually any piece of paper or mobile phone screen waved vaguely in their direction, to the ones who would probably argue the validity of a ticket that they themselves had just issued - to a friend or relative.

I love this description by the way

 

[riceuten]

I had a Stagecoach driver in Dover flatly refused to accept it. He phoned his depot manager who advised him it was "PlusBus is not valid on Stagecoach buses". No amount of showing him the webpage or printouts would shift him. We ended up taking the train, which was mysteriously cheaper than their day ticket. I rang Stagecoach Dover who (after consulting with the Depot manager) confirmed "PlusBus wasn't accepted" and advised me to contact PlusBus (via this form) https://plusbus.info/contact if I wanted to complain.

This I did, and PlusBus advised me that Stagecoach were indeed incorrect, and that PlusBus tickets were should have been valid on Stagecoach. They cc'd Stagecoach in Dover in, and to their credit, I got an apologetic letter from the latter stating that "there had been a misunderstanding" and that "at no point had staff told you that it wasn't valid" (I must have dreamed 3 occasions then). They also sent me some Stagecoach vouchers (which they probably would not have accepted!).

What was interesting was that PlusBus inadvertently sent me the internal correspondence which was not very complimentary towards Stagecoach, and it transpired this was not the first time this had happened. It seemed as if the Depot Manager had unilaterally decided not to accept PlusBus and had told his drivers to refuse them. His beef was that (with a railcard discount) the PlusBus ticket was cheaper than the Stagecoach day ticket "which can't be right".

This also reminds me recently where the Arriva Depot Manager in Stevenage advised drivers that the Intalink Explorer ticket was "only valid in Herts" and if you wanted to go to Luton you had to pay £2 single each way to and from the Herts border. I had this from 2 different drivers who confirmed they had been instructed to apply this fare structure. At my behest Intalink/Herts County Council contacted Arriva Stevenage and reminded them that the ticket was valid as long as the journey finished or started in Hertfordshire (having initially responded saying what the Arriva manager said was true!).

It just goes to show that one single ill-informed individual can have a dramatic effect.

 

[LiviCrazy]

Had the opposite problem a few years back. Tried to buy one at Glasgow Central Station from the ticket staff at the barrier (the conductor having not come around) and the staff (two of them) hadn’t heard of it and couldn’t find it on the ticket machines, ended up having to go without.

 

[GusB]

I use Plusbus quite a bit. Usually without issues, but it isn't abnormal for a driver to not know what the ticket is or think it's a train ticket.

This is one of those issues that crop up every now in the Bus section of the forum; I wouldn't blame the driver in the first instance.

This time, the driver had a good old stare, then asked me to pass it to them, stared some more, took a picture of it with his phone, handed it back, and let me on.

This was the best course of action; they weren't entirely sure what the ticket was, but you were allowed travel without undue fuss and the driver was clearly trying to cover their own back while doing so.

Generally speaking, they get a passing mention during initial training and there's probably a poster or two on a notice board in an obscure corner of the depot/canteen. Drivers can then, easily, go weeks if not months at a time without actually seeing one in the flesh. And when they do see one, it will inevitably look significantly different to the last one they saw.

This is probably the biggest issue. How many PlusBus tickets do bus drivers actually see on a day-to-day basis? I can't imagine that it would be that many. Drivers will be familiar with the day-to-day tickets that they encounter and if there is anything out of the ordinary they're absolutely right to question it. Back-office staff should be on the ball and be able to provide a definitive answer within a short space of time; if not, the problem lies behind the scenes and not on the front line.

 

[Esker-pades]

This is one of those issues that crop up every now in the Bus section of the forum; I wouldn't blame the driver in the first instance.


This was the best course of action; they weren't entirely sure what the ticket was, but you were allowed travel without undue fuss and the driver was clearly trying to cover their own back while doing so.


This is probably the biggest issue. How many PlusBus tickets do bus drivers actually see on a day-to-day basis? I can't imagine that it would be that many. Drivers will be familiar with the day-to-day tickets that they encounter and if there is anything out of the ordinary they're absolutely right to question it. Back-office staff should be on the ball and be able to provide a definitive answer within a short space of time; if not, the problem lies behind the scenes and not on the front line.

Tone wise, my original post was meant in a light-hearted way. Nothing untoward happened - unexpected etc.

I haven't blamed the driver at any point; I do understand front line jobs are hard; I understand they won't have been told everything / have forgotten something about a lesser-used ticket / a third option.

This seems a little clobbery a response.

 

[mangad]

Oh the number of times a baffled Stagecoach Manchester driver has stared intently at my Plusbus ticket before waving me on! No one ever stopped me thankfully. Although I did read that people have had problems with the GM Wayfarer bus/train/tram ticket that you can buy from rail stations (on train tickets) as the wording on it makes it look only like a train ticket (there's an example here: http://www.railrover.org/pages/greater-manchester-wayfarer.html)

Feels a bit like the rail industry doesn't help matters at times by not including clearer, bus friendly design, on the tickets they produce.

 

[Hophead]

I am a regular user of PlusBus and in many different places (usually the south of England) and I have to say I've never had a problem, even when boarding at unusual locations in the outer reaches of the area of validity. Earlier this year, a More Bus driver did want to take a look "because they're always changing the layout", but that's the only query I can remember.

 

[riceuten]

I am a regular user of PlusBus and in many different places (usually the south of England) and I have to say I've never had a problem, even when boarding at unusual locations in the outer reaches of the area of validity. Earlier this year, a More Bus driver did want to take a look "because they're always changing the layout", but that's the only query I can remember.

To be fair, only Stagecoach in Dover have ever questioned it. Everywhere else - even teeny tiny companies - have accepted it.

I note that quite a few of the validity maps are horrendously out of date. The Stevenage one has an extension to Ayot St Lawrence that hasn’t run in years.

 

[Deerfold]

I rarely use them (except in Nottingham) now they're more expensive than the normal day tickets in West Yorkshire (without railcard) but used to use them quite a lot. They seem to be poorly advertised and portals that sell them rarely highlight them.

Many years ago I had a Hitchin PlusBus season for a year - i used to carry the leaflet with me to show when the driver queried its validity - and it was almost always the same driver. I didn't renew the PlusBus portion as it was more hassle than it was worth - I then got an Arriva Stevenage and North Herts ticket for 3 months that was queried nearly as much.

 

[GusB]

Tone wise, my original post was meant in a light-hearted way. Nothing untoward happened - unexpected etc.

I haven't blamed the driver at any point; I do understand front line jobs are hard; I understand they won't have been told everything / have forgotten something about a lesser-used ticket / a third option.

This seems a little clobbery a response.

All I did was state that the issue of PlusBus tickets is one that does crop up every now and again. Despite being around for a few decades, they still aren't as widely understood as they should be, whether it's rail ticket office staff not knowing how to sell them or bus drivers not knowing how to accept them.

My response certainly wasn't intended to be "clobbery", and I'm struggling to see how you got that impression! While I note that you've since edited your original post to indicate that it was intented to be "light-hearted", I doubt that would have been the case if the bus driver had refused to accept your ticket!

 

[stevieinselby]

What was interesting was that PlusBus inadvertently sent me the internal correspondence which was not very complimentary towards Stagecoach, and it transpired this was not the first time this had happened. It seemed as if the Depot Manager had unilaterally decided not to accept PlusBus and had told his drivers to refuse them. His beef was that (with a railcard discount) the PlusBus ticket was cheaper than the Stagecoach day ticket "which can't be right".

But that's the whole point of it
If a PlusBus add-on was more expensive than the bus ticket then there would be no advantage to getting it – the reason for having it in the first place is to help out passengers who are making multi-modal journeys. Frankly, if you need a railcard discount to make it cheaper than the network ticket then it's a dud.

 

[scosutsut]

I've had issues roughly 50% of the time I've used it with Lothian / Lothian Country so I don't bother anymore.

 

[markymark2000]

Little heads up: if ticket office staff are struggling to issue Plusbus tickets, Plusbus do actually have a page on their site for rail staff on how to issue the ticket https://www.plusbus.info/how-issue

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Most of these issues will fall away shortly, so long as you buy an e-ticket version of PlusBus (currently rolling out slowly in a few areas after some successful initial trials).

The Ticketer bus ticket machines have been updated (or will get an update) that allows these to be read and automatically accepted. I can only assume Stagecoach will do something similar with their supplier.

Should also make them more accessible and easy to obtain.

 

[Lewisham2221]

This is probably the biggest issue. How many PlusBus tickets do bus drivers actually see on a day-to-day basis? I can't imagine that it would be that many.

I spent over a decade driving buses for a major operator at a depot whose routes covered 3 separate PlusBus schemes. I reckon I averaged less than 1 per month.

 

[Flange Squeal]

This is probably the biggest issue. How many PlusBus tickets do bus drivers actually see on a day-to-day basis? I can't imagine that it would be that many. Drivers will be familiar with the day-to-day tickets that they encounter and if there is anything out of the ordinary they're absolutely right to question it. Back-office staff should be on the ball and be able to provide a definitive answer within a short space of time; if not, the problem lies behind the scenes and not on the front line.

Having driven routes that pass through several PlusBus zones I the past, I have still very rarely seen them. To be honest, if it wasn’t for the fact I am a bit of an enthusiast, then I’d probably have forgotten about their existence given how briefly they were mentioned in training and since.

I do wonder how many rail passengers even know about them though, as I’ve mentioned the scheme to a few people when boarding my buses at stations and only going a short distance. After ascertaining they would be eligible, they have been very interested to hear about it. They do then go on to make up about 95% of the people I get presented one by thereafter though!

 

[AlastairFraser]

Most of the time I have no problem with Plusbus; apart from one Trentbarton driver in Nottingham, who thought it was only able to be used on the trams and Nottingham City Transport.
To be fair, he was perfectly polite about it, and I wasn't inclined to bugger about with Trentbarton customer service for the sake of £2.

 

[Joshua_Harman]

On my bus I see a Plusbus ticket maybe once or twice a month. there are some regular users of the ticket but not many.
I also think my knowledge of the plusbus scheme (Boundaries (Which are diffrent to our own day ticket zone) and railcards) comes from the fact that I am a transport nerd enthusiast and was not taught to me in training school when I jonied my company and it would not surpise me if none of our other bus drivers knew what they are!

 

[Edvid]

Don't know how I missed this thread! Here's my very belated contribution:

I spent a balmy June day travelling on the various electric buses within the Leicester Flexi area. Most drivers accepted my Leicester PlusBus Day ticket without issue but one on the Centrebus Orbital took a long look before asking where I was travelling to (the whole loop, in my case). He then claimed my ticket wasn't valid; I told him it was used on the Centrebus Hospital Hopper and he claimed that wasn't relevant to the Orbital; I then asked him to call his depot and he said there was no time for that (to be fair the service was over 20 minutes late at the time).

He then turned the Ticketer screen my way and actually asked me where the ticket could be found! Naturally, as a passenger with no experience of Ticketer driver-side functionality, I had no idea. In the end I was allowed to ride, but not without a final remark that it wasn't valid.

What was interesting was that PlusBus inadvertently sent me the internal correspondence which was not very complimentary towards Stagecoach, and it transpired this was not the first time this had happened. It seemed as if the Depot Manager had unilaterally decided not to accept PlusBus and had told his drivers to refuse them. His beef was that (with a railcard discount) the PlusBus ticket was cheaper than the Stagecoach day ticket "which can't be right".

Was that unintentional cc worth more to you than the vouchers you received? I do wonder how many other depot/area managers in OpCos privately feel the same way...

This also reminds me recently where the Arriva Depot Manager in Stevenage advised drivers that the Intalink Explorer ticket was "only valid in Herts" and if you wanted to go to Luton you had to pay £2 single each way to and from the Herts border. I had this from 2 different drivers who confirmed they had been instructed to apply this fare structure. At my behest Intalink/Herts County Council contacted Arriva Stevenage and reminded them that the ticket was valid as long as the journey finished or started in Hertfordshire (having initially responded saying what the Arriva manager said was true!).

In contrast, I once asked an Arriva driver on the 100 (pre-June route changes) if they were accepted for Luton-only journeys and he just asked me to scan it. Works for me.

 

[alex17595]

I used a Neath Plus bus up to Cwmgwrach, was fine on the way up but coming back the driver said it wasn't valid this far up. I told him the website says it was fine and all I got in return was: 'the websites wrong' I was allowed to travel without paying again though.

 

[Simon75]

I've used them on First Potteries/D&G in Stoke-on-Trent with no issues

 

[riceuten]

Was that unintentional cc worth more to you than the vouchers you received? I do wonder how many other depot/area managers in OpCos privately feel the same way...

Yes, it was! The chances of me using the voucher they sent (we stayed in a truly awful B&B opposite the station) were remote. The email trail went along the lines of "Yet another blooody Stagecoach manager making it up as they go along", and debating how high to take it to resolve.

In contrast, I once asked an Arriva driver on the 100 (pre-June route changes) if they were accepted for Luton-only journeys and he just asked me to scan it. Works for me.

Even if such a rule existed, then it would be hard to enforce

 

[Deerfold]

This also reminds me recently where the Arriva Depot Manager in Stevenage advised drivers that the Intalink Explorer ticket was "only valid in Herts" and if you wanted to go to Luton you had to pay £2 single each way to and from the Herts border. I had this from 2 different drivers who confirmed they had been instructed to apply this fare structure. At my behest Intalink/Herts County Council contacted Arriva Stevenage and reminded them that the ticket was valid as long as the journey finished or started in Hertfordshire (having initially responded saying what the Arriva manager said was true!).

It just goes to show that one single ill-informed individual can have a dramatic effect.

A few years ago, when Carousel and Arriva still accepted the Intalink ticket in High Wycombe, I bought a weekly version from Carousel on the 40 and had no end of trouble with Arriva drivers telling me they only accepted it if it had been bought from Arriva - both drivers and if they checked with management - though Arriva's Twitter account gave correct information.

I've used them on First Potteries/D&G in Stoke-on-Trent with no issues

I'll be testing that, probably with both operators, on 3 journeys with Railcard discounted tickets next month.