Point & Call: Has this ever been tried on the British railways?

[jzw95]

I read an interesting article about the "Point & Call" procedures used on Japanese railways for safety reasons. Basically, staff have to point and say what they're doing when carrying out all checks.

<http://99percentinvisible.org/article/motions-japanese-rail-workers-point-call-promote-safety/>

Watching Japanese train conductors (and other railway staff) point all over the place as they perform their duties is nothing short of mesmerizing. Their accompanying verbalizations can also seem strange, apparently directed at no one in particular. But what appear at a glance to be a series of oddly redundant rituals is part of a proven strategy to increase safety across the country’s transportation network.

The system, known as pointing-and-calling (shisa kanko), “works on the principle of associating one’s tasks with physical movements and vocalizations,” explains Allan Richarz, “to prevent errors by raising the consciousness levels of workers.” Each habit becomes associated with multiple senses, upping awareness levels. According to studies, “the technique reduces workplace errors....

I was wondering if anyone knows whether this or a similar system was ever tried on any railway in Britain? If so, why hasn't it been adopted?

 

[mtbox]

I read an interesting article about the "Point & Call" procedures used on Japanese railways for safety reasons. Basically, staff have to point and say what they're doing when carrying out all checks.

<http://99percentinvisible.org/article/motions-japanese-rail-workers-point-call-promote-safety/>

I was wondering if anyone knows whether this or a similar system was ever tried on any railway in Britain? If so, why hasn't it been adopted?

Systems similar to this are in use in the UK.
They don't work for everybody, I personally don't use any that are recommended by the company I work for and I have not had any safety of line incidents.
I know of incidents that have happened where the persons involved were using one of these "procedures" and the incident still happened.

 

[Bromley boy]

I read an interesting article about the "Point & Call" procedures used on Japanese railways for safety reasons. Basically, staff have to point and say what they're doing when carrying out all checks.

<http://99percentinvisible.org/article/motions-japanese-rail-workers-point-call-promote-safety/>

I was wondering if anyone knows whether this or a similar system was ever tried on any railway in Britain? If so, why hasn't it been adopted?

The nearest I've experienced to this, which sounds very similar, is the "push and call" part of commentary driving. Quite simply, you "push" the AWS reset to cancel the horn and "call" out the signal aspect.

 

[MrPIC]

I often use a less formal version when preparing trains to make sure I've checked everything I should do, and again in certain locations with lots of signals etc I'll point and say the one which applies to me before moving off.
I like their snazzy outfits out there! very professional!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Yes - but will not name the operator....

 

[VWCampervanman]

My DI has me point to the signal with my left hand and call out the aspect , before I take power . This forces my brain to process the action , whilst physically preventing me from taking power . Seems a great idea to me . I also repeat out loud what my train formation is as I approach a station, what car marker I am looking for and what side to release the doors, then before I release I repeat again, train formation , car stop marker and what side door release... all this gives my brain vital extra time to process what I am doing, and no doubt gives my DI extra time monitoring my actions. I fully intend to continue the habit when passed out.

 

[theironroad]

I don't think there is anything quite as formal as the system used in Japan. The Japanese system from my limited experience of seeing it in action is almost like saluting the signal and other in cab actions.

Certainly I think there has been a move to commentary driving in the UK, but that is more when with an instructor or assessor. Some people may use it all the time when by themselves, but I think that is rarer.

Probably the only time I really use it is when a single yellow signal I have cancelled the aws for eases to double yellow or green, when I do call it out and I can maintain speed

Occasionally, I'll use it if passing double yellows when the next signal isn't readily visible.

 

[stut]

Sitting behind the cab on single track sections in Japan (like the JR Nara line) is awesome - you get to see this in full flow.

Even more fun is if the line is one with unattended stations. The driver turns conductor at stations, with people paying (or tapping out) at the front door on exit.

 

[dk1]

We use 'Press & Call', DISH (do I stop here) & various route based commentary at my TOC.

 

[jopsuk]

Japan does tend to enforce this by commonly having glass wall cabs and managers undercover. Management by fear is common

 

[jzw95]

Really interesting responses, thanks all. Good food for thought more generally when carrying out tasks with potential risks.

 

[WideRanger]

Japan does tend to enforce this by commonly having glass wall cabs and managers undercover. Management by fear is common

There is also a clear expectation on the part of all that passengers will be actively observing everything the driver does. On many local trains now there is a sign (in Japanese) on the window explaining that the driver may from time to time use a mobile phone to deal with unexpected situations - the implication being that passengers should not see a mobile phone in use and conclude that the driver is behaving innapropriately.

Generally, the only times where you can't see the driver are:
1) On Shinkansen, which is completely closed off
2) On trains that are running through tunnels (in which case, the blinds will be pull down at the station stop before the tunnel, and released at the next station, if manual, or will go up and down automatically on some of the more modern trains)
3) At night
4) On some express trains where the driver sits in the bulge above the carriage.

In cases 2 & 3, the blinds tend to come down across around 2/3 of the window, so you can still often observe the driver from the other side. Where there is a guard, they will mostly stay in the rear cab, with the blinds compleltly open, and they will mostly face into the carriage, observing what is happening in the train.

As a passenger, it is great to observe the drivers at work. And they really don't seem to mind at all.

 

[plymothian]

The UK railway is only really just waking up to Non Technical Skills - which is what this is a derivation of. They are taking their cues from aviation, which is light-years ahead in their understanding of the human factor in incidents.

Generally it appears that Risk Triggered Commentary, whereby you talk out loud the risk that you are facing, is being pushed the most.

 

[andrewkeith5]

I pretty much end up using a method like this at least once a day just in my daily life! It works very well most of the time.

I get some rather amusing looks from onlookers as I talk myself through what I've already got in the boot of my car to make sure I haven't forgotten anything

 

[RPM]

I feel all these Non Technical Skill techniques are potentially very useful to individuals, but should never be made compulsory, because they don't work for everyone. In fact, if someone is made to use a technique that they find unhelpful it can be distracting and counterproductive.
I have tried commentary driving and found it absolutely useless, but I know other people who swear by it. Conversely, I have one or two techniques of my own for dealing with certain tasks, but when I've mentioned them to other people they've looked st me as if I'm mad. It is very much horses for courses. An enlightened management will encourage individuals to try different things and develop the systems that best suit them. Enforcing one particular system is poor management.

 

[U-Bahnfreund]

Sorry for going a bit off-topic here, but this ‘pointing’ reminds me very much of this Youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9jIsxQNz0M

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Sorry for going a bit off-topic here, but this ‘pointing’ reminds me very much of this Youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9jIsxQNz0M

Great stuff - and certain drivers were encouraged to call out "clear block" when they had 2 green signals ahead of them .....starter and repeater.

 

[theageofthetra]

There is also a clear expectation on the part of all that passengers will be actively observing everything the driver does. On many local trains now there is a sign (in Japanese) on the window explaining that the driver may from time to time use a mobile phone to deal with unexpected situations - the implication being that passengers should not see a mobile phone in use and conclude that the driver is behaving innapropriately.

Generally, the only times where you can't see the driver are:
1) On Shinkansen, which is completely closed off
2) On trains that are running through tunnels (in which case, the blinds will be pull down at the station stop before the tunnel, and released at the next station, if manual, or will go up and down automatically on some of the more modern trains)
3) At night
4) On some express trains where the driver sits in the bulge above the carriage.

In cases 2 & 3, the blinds tend to come down across around 2/3 of the window, so you can still often observe the driver from the other side. Where there is a guard, they will mostly stay in the rear cab, with the blinds compleltly open, and they will mostly face into the carriage, observing what is happening in the train.

As a passenger, it is great to observe the drivers at work. And they really don't seem to mind at all.

On the Tokyo suburban system which is mostly automated the driver has their hand on fake controller which presumably reassures the passengers that they are in charge.

 

[theageofthetra]

The UK railway is only really just waking up to Non Technical Skills - which is what this is a derivation of. They are taking their cues from aviation, which is light-years ahead in their understanding of the human factor in incidents.

Generally it appears that Risk Triggered Commentary, whereby you talk out loud the risk that you are facing, is being pushed the most.

Correct. Aviation looked at the most experienced pilot at KLM being involved at Tenerife in 1975 & worked upwards from there.

 

[GW43125]

I'm a trainee signalman on a miniature railway and I find myself using this method sometimes if it's rather busy; helps me remember what I've set the points to, where they're going etc.

 

[rebmcr]

I'd have a lot of trouble trying to do this, since I don't think in words and it's a focus-stealing effort to 'translate' to English.

 

[PaulLothian]

Every time I lock my car door (it's only a few years since we first had remote locking), I verbalise what I have done, to make sure I don't spend the rest of the day at work working if I actually locked it!

 

[gimmea50anyday]

TPE drivers are encouraged to use risk triggered commentary. As a guard/con/TM following a two on a red despatch irregularity I adopted a point and check approach to all of my despatches now. Not only is it a verbal and physical reminder to me to check doors, off indicator, signal etc but also I can be seen doing it on CCTV or to any competence monitoring for example.

 

[WideRanger]

On the Tokyo suburban system which is mostly automated the driver has their hand on fake controller which presumably reassures the passengers that they are in charge.

Are you sure about that? I'm really struggling to think of any JR lines or major private railways that are automatic. Are some of the metro lines automatic in places?

 

[grumblingalong]

I use it regularly on slam door stock, pointing at each of my doors and the door on the DVT. In locations where the signal is not easily spotted I can use it for that too, get some odd looks sometimes but it works!

 

[Bayum]

The 'Point and Call' is a lot like scaffolding and embedding in teaching.

Particularly if I'm teaching a new concept, or there are key points to remember before you look at a topic (pictograms and keys, exchanging in column methods), I get the children to answer in full sentences on the carpet, and to do the same at the tables.

"Jennifer, tell me what each picture represents and how you know."

"Each picture represents 4 ice-creams, and I know this because looking at the key, it says one picture is equal to four ice creams". Helps me when I only have myself in the classroom and am working with a particular group.

 

[rf_ioliver]

Point and Call is just on safety-critical systems technique for risk management. If anyone is interesting look at the work by James Reason - particularly in aviation, or, Atul Gawande's book "The Checklist Manifesto". The latter is an easy read and utterly fascinating in how risk management techniques - the checklist - from aviation (particularly) were moved to medicine.

I've worked with these techniques and the *main* thing is the change in culture that comes with them.

To the poster who wrote that "P&C didn't work for them", then I'd counteract this with the question of whether you were applying the technique correctly (it isn't just pointing and calling), whether the environment and work culture were set up correctly etc. This isn't to say that P&C was the correct technique at that point in time.

IIRC, the UK Police drivers use similar techniques during pursuits, calling out observations etc - partly for the record and partly because of the training which places huge emphasis on constantly understaning your environment.

t.

Ian

 

[Shinkansenfan]

New York City Transit has copied part of this practice from the Japanese.

They require subway conductors (who operate the doors) to point at the zebra striped "indication" board before opening the subway car doors. If a conductor views this board directly in front their window, the train is fully within the station platform.

A couple of years ago, the CEO of Toronto Transit Commission told me that they will implement this system for their conductors--based upon both New York and Japanese practice.

 

[godfreycomplex]

New York City Transit has copied part of this practice from the Japanese.

They require subway conductors (who operate the doors) to point at the zebra striped "indication" board before opening the subway car doors. If a conductor views this board directly in front their window, the train is fully within the station platform.

A couple of years ago, the CEO of Toronto Transit Commission told me that they will implement this system for their conductors--based upon both New York and Japanese practice.

Can confirm it's currently in use in Toronto. I sometimes loudly shout "Shingō" at the top of my voice when a freight's passed complete with tail lamp; but that's primarily intended to confuse the pax on the platform to be honest

Some people in signalboxes use it as an aide memoire; but it isn't formally taught down our way. Of limited usefulness as well; primarily because if you're on the phone in a busy signalbox the last thing you need is your mate next to you announcing "I AM SETTING THE ROUTE FROM 46 TO 45 for 1P37. I AM TAKING A LINE BLOCKAGE. I AM DRINKING MY TEA. I AM NOT OFFERING YOU ANY." at the top of their lungs.
I may exaggerate ever so slightly; but you catch my drift

 

[Shinkansenfan]

Can confirm it's currently in use in Toronto. I sometimes loudly shout "Shingō" at the top of my voice when a freight's passed complete with tail lamp; but that's primarily intended to confuse the pax on the platform to be honest

Some people in signalboxes use it as an aide memoire; but it isn't formally taught down our way. Of limited usefulness as well; primarily because if you're on the phone in a busy signalbox the last thing you need is your mate next to you announcing "I AM SETTING THE ROUTE FROM 46 TO 45 for 1P37. I AM TAKING A LINE BLOCKAGE. I AM DRINKING MY TEA. I AM NOT OFFERING YOU ANY." at the top of their lungs.
I may exaggerate ever so slightly; but you catch my drift

"Shingō"

Wicked!

Thanks for the update on TTC.

One of the funniest example of this verbalizing was an ICE waiter serving the First Class carriage passengers their at-seat orders on an Erfurt to Berlin train that I rode last year...

<Spoken in German, which I largely do not understand, but could get the meaning as something along the lines of>...

Sir! Here is your meal! I will now place the plate in front of you, and you can see the food. I give you the napkin. Here is the fork, the knife, and the spoon. I will now pour you the beer. Glug, glug, glug! <he made that sound, not the beer> And now we have your complete meal ready for you to eat. Please eat and enjoy.

This was repeated to others at the same table. And to others in the same carriage. Collection of payment at the end of meal was equally involved.

There were several Germans observing this and myself who could barely contain ourselves from breaking out in laughter!