Poland local trains - Taryfa Małopolska

[CC 72100]

Hello all,

I'm off to Poland soon, staying in Krakow and looking to visit Auschwitz-Birkenau.

Going by myself, I won't be joining a group tour and going by coach (unless rail is a real pain and someone here advises me it is!) doesn't appeal, so thinking of taking the train from Krakow Glowny to Oświęcim.

My Intercity journey for one of the other days was easy to book, for this one I have to go on a different website, and when paying it offers me the Taryfa Małopolska (about 9zl) which is about 40% less than the normal fare of about 15zl. Does anyone know if this special fare is available to me as a non-resident, if there is any particular t&c attached to it?

All help appreciated

 

[johnnychips]

Not sure about fares, but if you’re going soon, really wrap up well. When I went it was -14: cold enough on trains and coaches, let alone walking round the camps.

 

[AndrewE]

If you are in Krakow don't miss going down the the salt mine at Wieliska. It's at the end of a suburban railway line and will be an excellent antidote to the concentration camp experience (which I passed on, having already been to Belsen - one is enough for anybody.)
Don't miss out on the free additional geological museum bit at the end of the underground tour either. Our guide was obviously dying to get back to the surface for a fag, but doing it made all the difference to the tour for me.

 

[fowler9]

As Andrew E said the salt mines are well worth a visit. Regarding Auschwitz, to be honest I would consider a coach tour. It is going to be freezing at this time of year. Auschwitz is a bit of a walk from the station and Birkenau is a more substantial walk from there, then back to the station. A mate of mine Jacek is from Tychy which is nearby, he got the train there from Katowice with my mate Norm (Who is from Liverpool like me) and they went to Auschwitz A and ended up missing out Birkenau because it was too much of a faff and that was in Summer. It gets colds there in a way it just doesn't in most of the UK. For the record I have been to Krakow and Auschwitz twice.

 

[306024]

Even 15zl is cheap. Mało seems to mean little, which doesn’t help much. You could just buy a ticket from Krakow to Oświęcim on the day, that will be easy enough in Krakow.

I did what you are doing, in November when it was just below freezing. The train journey was slow and not especially comfortable, but in the context of what you are about to experience no problem at all. It is astonishing. Going on your own you will have time to reflect on what you see, it is, in my view, preferable to going on a coach tour. I tried to walk around the perimeter of the Birkenau site to understand the scale, but it is so vast it got dark.

 

[fowler9]

Even 15zl is cheap. Mało seems to mean little, which doesn’t help much. You could just buy a ticket from Krakow to Oświęcim on the day, that will be easy enough in Krakow.

I did what you are doing, in November when it was just below freezing. The train journey was slow and not especially comfortable, but in the context of what you are about to experience no problem at all. It is astonishing. Going on your own you will have time to reflect on what you see, it is, in my view, preferable to going on a coach tour. I tried to walk around the perimeter of the Birkenau site to understand the scale, but it is so vast it got dark.

Totally agree about just getting a ticket at Krakow Glowny on the day.

 

[181]

Małopolska (whose literal meaning is indeed 'Little Poland') is the region in which Kraków is situated. There's a regional train operator called Koleje Małopolskie (https://malopolskiekoleje.pl/, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koleje_Małopolskie), but they don't appear to operate the Oświęcim route.

Some Googling finds this; Google will also give you an approximate translation. There don't appear to be any obvious restrictions, other than the one that you can only use Regio trains (or Koleje Małopolskie on appropriate routes), but these make up most of the Kraków-Oświęcim service anyway (http://rozklad.sitkol.pl/bin/query.exe/en indicates the occasional train of a higher grade -- these will cost more).

As others have said, buying a ticket on the day will probably be both cheap and simple, although you may find that there are separate ticket windows and machines for each operator -- I presume that Regio trains on the Kraków-Oświęcim line are run by Prewozy Regionalne (Polregio). If buying from a staffed window, I'd advise writing down what you want -- I don't think I've ever come across a Polish booking clerk who speaks English (although most of my travels there were some years ago).

 

[duesselmartin]

I did take the train to Oswiecim in 2000, a EC train towards Vienna. The thought that many victims to the same route, walked the same road from the station was very moving. It did not seem that far.
Back then there where cheap taxis outside Auschwitz which brought you for a few zloty to Birkenau.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I went in February 6 years ago, it was -25C, wrap up well

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I did take the train to Oswiecim in 2000, a EC train towards Vienna. The thought that many victims to the same route, walked the same road from the station was very moving. It did not seem that far.
Back then there where cheap taxis outside Auschwitz which brought you for a few zloty to Birkenau.

Absolutely right, the line of death. Seemingly innocuous overgrown sidings are still there, leading towards the camp.
I passed through 3 years ago, just stopping off in Oświęcim for an hour to pick up the local onwards to the CZ border.
I could buy a local ticket Krakow-Oświęcim for PLN 9.50.
There's now an EC day service on the route (Krakow-Prague), but I see PKP want PLN 21 for the same trip.
I only spent a short day in Krakow but Rynek Glowny and Wawel Castle, and the trams, were very impressive.

The track in Poland is in a bad way and there are long stretches of VERY slow running (50 km/h or less), relieved by short prints of 80.
The railway history in the area is very complicated as it was a major border zone in the 19th century, in the Austrian Empire (Galicia) but close to the German (Silesia) and Russian (Congress Poland) borders.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Taryfa Małopolska can be used by everyone - it's a great offer so you should for sure take advantage of it.

Most of the Polregio services and those operated by Koleje Małopolskie are now using almost brand new trains which are far better than the ones from the past, although the line speeds are really not great.

 

[CC 72100]

Thanks all for the responses so far - once again the RUK community comes up trumps!

Salient points to take away then:

- Ticket can be used by anyone (happy days!), but don't bank on rail staff speaking English (fair enough)
- If you do go by train, it ain't a quick journey
- Worth checking on Google maps to see if I'm happy with that length walk
- It will likely be cold
- Should consider the salt mine as well
- It will likely be very cold

 

[F Great Eastern]

The salt mine is the same temperature all year around - it says on their site what it is, I cannot remember.

Some of the newer Polregio/Koleje Małopolskie trains have bilingual information screens and announcements and the information inside is often in both languages - you'll get the odd person who will speak English but not so much.

By the way - a good site in English that sells train tickets for all the non PKP companies
https://koleo.pl/en/

 

[F Great Eastern]

Also it may not be useful to you, but I'm just putting this up here in case it's useful for someone else:
https://polregio.pl/en/offers-and-promotions/national-offers/tourist-ticket/

45zl weekend tourist ticket from 6pm on a Friday to 6am on the next working day - if Monday is a holiday for instance, the ticket is valid until 6am on Tuesday.

It includes all travel on Polregio, Przewozy Regionalne, Arriva RP, Koleje Dolnośląskie KD, Koleje Śląskie KS, Koleje Wielkopolskie KW, Koleje Małopolskie KMŁ and Łodzka Kolej Aglomeracyjna ŁKA, which in practice allows you to travel over almost whole Poland when using non PKP trains.

Note that it does also include the train from Krakow Airport to Krakow Glowny as well as even some services to Germany and Czech Republic.

 

[johnnychips]

Nobody seems to have pointed out that if you go to Auschwitz, there is a free shuttle bus to Birkenau - you don’t have to walk.

 

[oldman]

I guess people on this forum will not want to, but you can get direct buses from Krakow to Auschwitz in 85 minutes- look up Oswiecim Muzeum on e-podroznik.

 

[Bigchris]

We had 3 days in Krakow back in October 2016 and loved the place. Loads to see and do, the locals were really friendly and the food & beer was dirt cheap! We then got the train up to Wroclaw for another 3 days, again, lovely place but not as much to see as Krakow.

If you have 2 or 3 hours spare and want to do something "trainy" I'd thoroughly recommend a trip on the local train out to Krakow Prokocim depot (if you look on a map or Google Earth it's right by Krakow Biezanow station). It takes about 10 minutes from the main Krakow Glowny station, a single cost about £1 if I recall, and you can buy the tickets from the machine on the station, and it's in English. The depot has easy access and you can pretty much go where you want. Between the depot and the withdrawn locos further down the freight yard I noted over 70 locos in about an hour!

Also, if you stop on route at Krakow Plaszow you'll probably get a few more locos as that's where many of the IC's start and finish, and a short walk (about 15 minutes) from the station is an old shed area that has some rusting steam locos and various bit of old decaying steam era rolling stock. Again, there's unrestricted access so you can even get inside the steam locos if you want (beware of the rusting floors).

My other interest is aircraft and the Polish Air Force Museum is great. It's about 10 minutes out from the city centre in Krakow and not far from the nearest tram stop. Loads to see from WWI & WWII aircraft, cold war stuff (quite a few good Russian jets), even a few ex-RAF examples! Strangley, this was the bit my missis liked best out of the whole week we were in Poland (I don't drag her around loco depots with me lol).

If you want more details or directions please give me a shout.

 

[fowler9]

We had 3 days in Krakow back in October 2016 and loved the place. Loads to see and do, the locals were really friendly and the food & beer was dirt cheap! We then got the train up to Wroclaw for another 3 days, again, lovely place but not as much to see as Krakow.

If you have 2 or 3 hours spare and want to do something "trainy" I'd thoroughly recommend a trip on the local train out to Krakow Prokocim depot (if you look on a map or Google Earth it's right by Krakow Biezanow station). It takes about 10 minutes from the main Krakow Glowny station, a single cost about £1 if I recall, and you can buy the tickets from the machine on the station, and it's in English. The depot has easy access and you can pretty much go where you want. Between the depot and the withdrawn locos further down the freight yard I noted over 70 locos in about an hour!

Also, if you stop on route at Krakow Plaszow you'll probably get a few more locos as that's where many of the IC's start and finish, and a short walk (about 15 minutes) from the station is an old shed area that has some rusting steam locos and various bit of old decaying steam era rolling stock. Again, there's unrestricted access so you can even get inside the steam locos if you want (beware of the rusting floors).

My other interest is aircraft and the Polish Air Force Museum is great. It's about 10 minutes out from the city centre in Krakow and not far from the nearest tram stop. Loads to see from WWI & WWII aircraft, cold war stuff (quite a few good Russian jets), even a few ex-RAF examples! Strangley, this was the bit my missis liked best out of the whole week we were in Poland (I don't drag her around loco depots with me lol).

If you want more details or directions please give me a shout.

Mate those tips are brilliant and I'll be back in Krakow sooner rather than later. Got a mate from Tychy which isn't far away and we are due a visit during the year.

 

[CC 72100]

I guess people on this forum will not want to, but you can get direct buses from Krakow to Auschwitz in 85 minutes- look up Oswiecim Muzeum on e-podroznik.

Thanks - I think I am going to (pre-booked) take the bus there, when I will be time sensitive for the tour, and then make my way back on the train... a best of both as it were!

Just didn't fancy the idea of being on an organised tour bus type thing for something so individual.

Superb suggestions all by the way, much appreciated

 

[CC 72100]

Thought I'd just check-in with this thread to let you know how I got on...

Well, the "taryfa małopolska" can indeed be used by everyone, and ticket machines will actively offer it. It is like a normal ticket but only has 6-hour validity.

In the end I did the train - Polregio one way, Intercity from Prague on the way back - to Oswiecim. The journey times are relatively slow because line speeds are so poor. E71 unit on the way there, Czech railways class 163 and 3 coaches on the return.

Impressed with the PKP Intercity between Krakow and Wroclaw - average speed of about 90 mph, great legroom on the stock, train was full but compulsory reservation so no problems in getting a seat. We stopped outside Wroclaw for a loco change - I thought this would take place in the station, but no, the EP07 attached to our EP09 and 8 coach consist just outside, before taking us into the station and then dragging our EP09 out of the way to either go forward by itself or let a fellow EP07 class mate take the train forward.

 

[F Great Eastern]

You were unlucky to get an EN71 - That route used to be operated by modern EMUs before the Malopolska part of Polregio started to get cut up in the usual way, where all the new and modern stock and the odd route gets transferred out into new/existing local operators and as such Polregio keeps getting smaller but always seems to have the old units that the other operators don't.

No doubt that some of the other lines have been spun out into Koleje Małopolskie (which itself was formed by taking the prize assets and stock from Polregio a few years ago) as seems the current trends and have took all the modern stock that used to operate on the line to Oswiecim, leaving PolRegio to have to reallocate the old stuff that was previously used on other less touristy lines to this route.

I still have a lot of time for PolRegio though because over the years they have come up with a number of innovations and good ideas years before PKP even thought of them - RegioEkpress was years ahead of anything that PKP offered but unfortunately was put to the slaughter by being strangled for track access rights, paths and huge increases in track access fees.

PKP stock is variable - the Stadler Flirts are excellent, the Pendolino's have exceptionally poor seats and a waste of money and more about style than substance, and the PESA Darts are claustrophobic rubbish - some of the compartment cars are nice however but some of them are downright awful.

 

[CC 72100]

Thanks for your response FGE - how does it work then in Poland between PKP IC / Polregio / local operators? Is it franchising or is it 'cuthroat' (hence nice stock ending up with the new boys with poor old Polregio left with EN71 and EN57s)?

 

[F Great Eastern]

Until December 2008 or so Przewozy Regionalne (now Polregio, then PKP Przewozy Regionalne) was a division of PKP, but due to EU rules sectors of PKP had to be broke up, so PKP Przewozy Regionalne was spun off and the shares were given to regional authorities so it became totally independent from PKP.

However only a short while after this happened, a large number of the most popular routes and the the newer (but still old) rolling stock were transferred back to PKP, which then ran many of them under the TLK brand, but some were used under other brands.

This left PR with a huge amount of those EN57/71s that all stayed with PR and other pretty old stock and mostly local routes and the occasional Intercity route under the InterRegio brand but with most of the crumbs for routes which were in most cases making huge losses.

However despite this they introduced online ticket sales in 2010, ticket machines at stations in 2011 and then the RegioEkspress brand in 2012, which offered on demand content, WIfi, plug sockets, comprehensive on-board passenger information, way before many of these were introduced by PKP - even as now WIfi is not offered on PKP's fastest trains.

Sadly RegioEkspress never really expanded after problems getting paths, issues accessing main stations in cities, steep rises to track charges and slowly died a death, buying tickets in a station was not always easy, they couldn't always install their ticket machines, PKP staff were not always keen to sell their tickets and also in some cases, some station timetables didn't even list them - the companies precarious finances worsened and services got cut more to the point where everything other than standard regio services were cut.

PolRegio is basically the new PR, which now is managed by the Industrial Development Agency in Poland which bought it's shares, many of the regions who owned shares in PR have in the last number of years set up their own railway companies which have since took over routes and also in a number of cases stock that was previously operated by PR which was bought by the regions.

The end result is pretty much that the parts of PR with newer trains have been assumed into these new regional companies and are operating under the new providers names, whilst the stuff that has been left continues to run on the older trains under the PolRegio name.

This was one of the RegioEkspress trains - this one was refurbished to RE standards in 2012 - (click the CC icon in the video for English subtitles)

The above is why I would admire PR a lot - they had little money and always have had a bad hand - but when those trains were first introduced they were WAY ahead of anything PKP could offer and that's before you take into account the fact they also had ticket machines and online sales way before PKP as well.

The real tragedy about PKP is they have had huge amount of taxpayers money for the past decade, and still cannot get the basics right, they could be a vastly better railway company than they are with their resources.

 

[fowler9]

Until December 2008 or so Przewozy Regionalne (now Polregio, then PKP Przewozy Regionalne) was a division of PKP, but due to EU rules sectors of PKP had to be broke up, so PKP Przewozy Regionalne was spun off and the shares were given to regional authorities so it became totally independent from PKP.

However only a short while after this happened, a large number of the most popular routes and the the newer (but still old) rolling stock were transferred back to PKP, which then ran many of them under the TLK brand, but some were used under other brands.

This left PR with a huge amount of those EN57/71s that all stayed with PR and other pretty old stock and mostly local routes and the occasional Intercity route under the InterRegio brand but with most of the crumbs for routes which were in most cases making huge losses.

However despite this they introduced online ticket sales in 2010, ticket machines at stations in 2011 and then the RegioEkspress brand in 2012, which offered on demand content, WIfi, plug sockets, comprehensive on-board passenger information, way before many of these were introduced by PKP - even as now WIfi is not offered on PKP's fastest trains.

Sadly RegioEkspress never really expanded after problems getting paths, issues accessing main stations in cities, steep rises to track charges and slowly died a death, buying tickets in a station was not always easy, they couldn't always install their ticket machines, PKP staff were not always keen to sell their tickets and also in some cases, some station timetables didn't even list them - the companies precarious finances worsened and services got cut more to the point where everything other than standard regio services were cut.

PolRegio is basically the new PR, which now is managed by the Industrial Development Agency in Poland which bought it's shares, many of the regions who owned shares in PR have in the last number of years set up their own railway companies which have since took over routes and also in a number of cases stock that was previously operated by PR which was bought by the regions.

The end result is pretty much that the parts of PR with newer trains have been assumed into these new regional companies and are operating under the new providers names, whilst the stuff that has been left continues to run on the older trains under the PolRegio name.

This was one of the RegioEkspress trains - this one was refurbished to RE standards in 2012 - (click the CC icon in the video for English subtitles)

The above is why I would admire PR a lot - they had little money and always have had a bad hand - but when those trains were first introduced they were WAY ahead of anything PKP could offer and that's before you take into account the fact they also had ticket machines and online sales way before PKP as well.

The real tragedy about PKP is they have had huge amount of taxpayers money for the past decade, and still cannot get the basics right, they could be a vastly better railway company than they are with their resources.

Cheers mate, as someone who loves Poland and is a fairly frequent visitor that was an interesting read.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Incidentally around the time PR was spun out of PKP a lot of other parts of PKP were also spun off into various companies, including TK Telekom, who developed the Bilkom real time / timetabling app with HaCon way back in 2012 and powered the online multi-operator journey planning engine , Bilkom was an extremely useful app to use when in Poland to keep up to date with real time trains.

However the original Bilkom is to be discontinued - PKP have replaced the Bilkom website with their own version this week which has completely removed real time information and has become a ticket selling service first and foremost - no doubt the app will change as well but it's still based on the old Bilkom for now. The new website requires Polish characters in names to find them (whereas the old version would interept ł as l for example) and is only available in Polish compared to English, Russian, Polish and German of the old version.

There was also Dworzec Polski, a station company that was spun out of PKP to refurbish stations in Wroclaw, Krakow, Poznan, Gdansk and others with own management which allowed more freedom than being a division of PKP. Their refurbishment of Krakow Glowny about 5 years ago was excellent and a massive transformation into a true operator neutral station, however recent changes under PKP to relocate the entire station and the abandonment of the old historical station building have caused overcrowding.

Neither DP or TK exist now. Much of TK's stuff has been merged into PKP Informatyka and DP was starved of funds and liquidated - both were technically owned by PKP, but were allowed freedom and own management to give them focus, which really was a positive thing as PKP in general is not very focused.