Poll: Most effective way of showing which part of the train will be located where on a long platform

[pt_mad]

Which do members prefer or think is the most effective way for stations to identify which part of a train will be located on which part of a long platform? Particularly applicable for long express trains. Variety of methods are used today. Which do members prefer or think are the most effective?

 

[notlob.divad]

The problem with displaying the coach letters in a permanent way is that the train always has to run the same way around. Which we know is never going to be guaranteed. So I think a combination of:
Segregated position markers along the platform (floor and/or wall) showing where the coaches will stop. Then an announcement at least 5 minutes before the train arrives to say coach A /.. will be at the front of the train with.. / A at the rear. First class is located in ... large luggage should be placed in ...

The reason I add this last one, is if you end up with your bicycle/big suitcase at the wrong end of an 11 car pendolino. You are caught between getting on at the wrong place and having to stand with it. Verses running the length of the platform and potentially not getting on the train. You are not going to be able to get it through the train whilst in motion. So for me it is more important than where first class is.

 

[FQTV]

At my local station, two, three, four, five, six, eight and nine carriage trains call. The existing (LNER) carriage letter signs probably cause more problems that they solve, with (for example) Transpennine Express passengers booked in coach B having to gallop a third of the way back along the platform when their entire train sails straight past them and B halts where the sign says E.

The letter signs, now that we’re well into the 21st Century, should be high definition LED, updated wirelessly to display the actual location of carriages for the next train.

It also needs verbal announcements to advise which end the extreme lettered carriages are, and dispense with unnecessary verbiage such as ‘a complimentary offer is available for First Class passengers’.

 

[Bletchleyite]

European style splitting of the platform into zone A, B, C, D, E, F etc with large prominent signage. This replaces "3a/3b" and the likes.

Nice little diagram on each PIS screen showing what's where - and accurately. To ensure this, when taking over a train as driver (DOO) or guard (others) inputting its formation somewhere e.g. on an app on your phone to be a mandatory part.

Switch to coach numbers instead of letters.

 

[matacaster]

Continuous muti-coloured LED scrolling strips either on the platform canopy or more expensively buried alongside the tactile paving on platform. Fully configurable via having different colours and message for each carriage automatically via link to passenger information system (ie new ones at Huddersfield) to accurately reflect every type of train regardless of direction and configuration. Ok it would be very expensive, but only suggested for principle stations.

 

[Jonny]

The problem with LNER's system is that it assumes a largely homogeneous fleet belonging to a single train operator. That's OK for LNER; not so good for TOCs with variable fleets or even multiple TOCs with different fleets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The problem with LNER's system is that it assumes a largely homogeneous fleet belonging to a single train operator. That's OK for LNER; not so good for TOCs with variable fleets or even multiple TOCs with different fleets.

Indeed. It's traditionally only been the IC operator that's done it, but it really should be for all trains - even down to which end 1st is on a 3-car DMU like a 185. People knowing exactly where to stand really speeds things up.

 

[mallard]

It's very common on the continent to have a poster showing the exact formations of every train scheduled to stop at the platform, including which way around it is... Of course, in the UK they'd rather use the space to put up more advertising posters.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's very common on the continent to have a poster showing the exact formations of every train scheduled to stop at the platform, including which way around it is... Of course, in the UK they'd rather use the space to put up more advertising posters.

VTWC stations have posters of that nature, though obviously only 4 permutations of rolling stock are listed (9 and 11-car Pendolino and 5 and 10-car Voyager). Indeed, VTWC's approach with the 10 numbered platform zones and the posters and PIS is closest to the European model of any UK TOC.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

VTWC stations have posters of that nature, though obviously only 4 permutations of rolling stock are listed (9 and 11-car Pendolino and 5 and 10-car Voyager). Indeed, VTWC's approach with the 10 numbered platform zones and the posters and PIS is closest to the European model of any UK TOC.

Well, it's certainly easier for them to do than for other TOCs such as TPE - they operate (lease) the majority of the stations they call at!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well, it's certainly easier for them to do than for other TOCs such as TPE - they operate (lease) the majority of the stations they call at!

TPE operate a goodly number of stations, and they don't provide such posters at those stations either. Part of the reason, of course, is that they can't be bothered paying attention to which way round their trains are.

It's typical laziness more than anything.

 

[swaldman]

I don't care how it's done as long as there's *something*.

On routes with only one train type that doesn't get turned around then having the actual coach letters marked is nice, but it's probably more practical to have zones and then a clear way of knowing which coach will be where. Some of the continental railways handle this nicely by having some screens on the platforms that show a diagram of how the next train to arrive will line up with the zones along the platform.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't care how it's done as long as there's *something*.

On routes with only one train type that doesn't get turned around then having the actual coach letters marked is nice, but it's probably more practical to have zones and then a clear way of knowing which coach will be where. Some of the continental railways handle this nicely by having some screens on the platforms that show a diagram of how the next train to arrive will line up with the zones along the platform.

Some GWR stations now have displays that do this, though as is typical for lazy First the effort doesn't always go into ensuring they are accurate.

 

[swaldman]

Some GWR stations now have displays that do this, though as is typical for lazy First the effort doesn't always go into ensuring they are accurate.

*facepalm*

 

[pt_mad]

Was it just a WCML thing for there to be coloured zones? Gold zone, blue zone etc? Coventry still used these and announced these last time I went there. Yet other WCML stations such as Stafford, use the numbered zones on the ground. I think they used to have coloured zones signs?

Why were they not kept along most of the route? Not enough zones indicated, or wrong locations for the shop Vs the old buffet car etc?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

In principal, it's fairly simple: there needs to be some way of describing each part of the train, and some way of describing each part of the platform, and some way of telling passengers which part of the train will stop at which part of the platform.

Describing trains is more or less sorted: if a description is used at all, carriages are (universally?) lettered. It's describing platforms where the problems start in that there are three options in use
- colour zones
- numbered zones
- front/rear of the train, and not forgetting
- no system at all.

I don't like front/rear as a system: it requires railway knowledge from the passenger, and is less helpful than it might be at (in particular) New Street where it is not obvious to a layperson which end of the station the train will be arriving from, and not clear if 'front' and 'rear' apply to the train as arriving or as departing.

Numbered zones are ambiguous against numbered platforms. Lettered zones are ambiguous against lettered coaches (and, I think, aren't used for that very reason). So unless we want to invent a whole new system, that leaves coloured zones.

Then the information needs to be communicated. If this is going to be passive through posters, that needs the trains to
- have consistently lettered coaches
- always be the same way round
- consistently stop in the same position

Absent any of these points, that means dynamic communication of what's happening today - which means messages on the PIS and/or the Tannoy. And that also means the relevant information being held on the system and available for communication. I don't know enough to be able to say if it is just a matter of extracting information that is already there, or whether it is yet another thing that would have to be recorded and managed.

And one last wish: let's have one common system, so that the end user only has to understand one set of railway rules, and not separate ones for every company they travel with.

 

[DarloRich]

Surely just a numbered or lettered zone marker will do with announcements depending on the type of train used on a particular service. I don't think this needs overthinking! Although i do agree we should have one common system.

 

[xotGD]

"Coach A is at the front" / "Coach A is at the back" would be a good start for TPE services.

 

[Bletchleyite]

"Coach A is at the front" / "Coach A is at the back" would be a good start for TPE services.

Just knowing which way round their trains were would be a good start for that overstated, overcrowded third-rate regional express operation.

 

[pt_mad]

Wonder how first class will be announced on 8 or 12 car LNR services? 'First class is a third and two thirds along the train?'.

Is the location of first class announced currently on any coupled up LNR services?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wonder how first class will be announced on 8 or 12 car LNR services? 'First class is a third and two thirds along the train?'.

Is the location of first class announced current tly on any coupled up LNR services?

It isn't announced on any LNR service of any kind.

 

[pt_mad]

It isn't announced on any LNR service of any kind.

Is there a solution as to how it could be announced? (The location of first class when two trains are coupled together, and first class is in the centre of each set)?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is there a solution as to how it could be announced? (The location of first class when two trains are coupled together, and first class is in the centre of each set)?

The formation diagrams used on new GWR station PIS would do the job. As for announcements, perhaps something like "First Class is located in coaches 2, 6 and 10, numbered from the front of the train".

 

[pt_mad]

The formation diagrams used on new GWR station PIS would do the job. As for announcements, perhaps something like "First Class is located in coaches 2, 6 and 10, numbered from the front of the train".

Diagrams good idea for sure. Although that would require the systems knowing which way round each set was. Or they wouldn't know whether first class was in the second or third car of each of the two or three trains. And I suspect it may be random which way round the trains are when they're coupled, and maybe not recorded on systems. So meaning they can't or don't currently announce first class is in the third car etc.

 

[telstarbox]

Was it just a WCML thing for there to be coloured zones? Gold zone, blue zone etc? Coventry still used these and announced these last time I went there. Yet other WCML stations such as Stafford, use the numbered zones on the ground. I think they used to have coloured zones signs?

Why were they not kept along most of the route? Not enough zones indicated, or wrong locations for the shop Vs the old buffet car etc?

Sure I've seen them on the Midland Mainline as well.

Here's an "Orange Zone" at Wellingborough - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wellingboroughplatform3.jpg

And a "Purple Zone" at Leicester - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...on_Platform_2_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1272152.jpg

 

[Bletchleyite]

Diagrams good idea for sure. Although that would require the systems knowing which way round each set was. Or they wouldn't know whether first class was in the second or third car of each of the two or three trains. And I suspect it may be random which way round the trains are when they're coupled, and maybe not recorded on systems. So meaning they can't or don't currently announce first class is in the third car etc.

Hence my view that part of taking over the train as a driver and/or guard would be accurately recording the formation on some system or other, as it is on SBB.

 

[43096]

Hence my view that part of taking over the train as a driver and/or guard would be accurately recording the formation on some system or other, as it is on SBB.

“As it is on SBB” is the key phrase. As usual, the Swiss get it very, very right.

 

[matacaster]

"Coach A is at the front" / "Coach A is at the back" would be a good start for TPE services.

Why not paint a yellow A on front of train and B at other end of set?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Why not paint a yellow A on front of train and B at other end of set?

Because you can be fairly certain that coach B is in the middle of the three car set
..

 

[pt_mad]

Sure I've seen them on the Midland Mainline as well.

Here's an "Orange Zone" at Wellingborough - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wellingboroughplatform3.jpg

And a "Purple Zone" at Leicester - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...on_Platform_2_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1272152.jpg

Ironically, coloured zones doesn't seem very popular in the poll. Yet seems the most traditional way and was well established at one point.