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Polybulk wagons

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Domagoj Vu

Member
Joined
24 Aug 2017
Messages
21
Hi again, i got more updates of former identifies of the wagon, i'd thank Anton Kendall for his help also.
33 87 9382 031 - 1 >>> 33 70 9382 109
33 87 9382 032 - 9 >>> 33 70 9382 110 - 2

As i promised, here are the images of the catched wagons in Vinkovci.
The wagons have been reclassified recently as Uapps, and now recently again Uafoos.
33 87 F-VTG 9382 046 - 9 Uafoos
uafoos1.jpg


Uafoos2.jpg

Uafoos3.jpg

Uafoos4.jpg

Uafoos5.jpg

Uafoos6.jpg

Revision, sadly i can't say more becouse i dont know where exactly it made revision.
Uafoos7.jpg

Uafoos8.jpg

Uafoos9.jpg

More wagons are coming into next post!

33 87 F-VTG 9382 048 - 5 Uafoos
Uafoos10.jpg

Uafoos11.jpg


Uafoos12.jpg

33 87 F-VTG 9382 040 - 2 Uafoos
Uafoos13.jpg

Uafoos14.jpg

Uafoos15.jpg

Uafoos16.jpg

Uafoos17.jpg

Uafoos18.jpg

Uafoos19.jpg

Uafoos20.jpg

33 87 F-VTG 9382 022 - 0 Uafoos
Uafoos21.jpg


Uafoos22.jpg

Uafoos23.jpg

Uafoos24.jpg


Uafoos25.jpg

33 87 F-VTG 9382 023 - 8 Uafoos
Uafoos26.jpg


Uafoos27.jpg

Uafoos29.jpg

33 87 F-VTG 9382 044 - 4 Uafoos
Uafoos30.jpg


Uafoos31.jpg

Uafoos32.jpg

Thats all material for now on.
 
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Adrian Barr

Member
Joined
2 Jul 2020
Messages
434
Location
Doncaster
Hi, nice to see an update to this thread. The history of these ferry wagons is interesting and I'm glad they are still used in Europe.

Firstly, this section is about your post from February last year, with the photo of 33 87 F-GRSE 9345 955 - 7 Uagpps.

my conclusion that these are former E389 NACCO / Tiger wagons

I think there was only one wagon with the E389 design code, 8705980017 (built 1974) which was renumbered 875699001x by 1990.

Your wagon looks very similar to the E431 type in this photo:
https://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/U...red-hoppers/JIA-Traffic-ServicesVTG/i-GBcP5dT

The E431 wagons built in 1974 are very similar to some E644 wagons built in 1983 (the E644 wagons are the "French Polybulks" on Paul Bartlett's site)
The renumberings are confusing! This is what I can work out from a 1990 book listing the ferry wagons used in the UK (N.B. check digits mostly not shown, e.g. 700999000-064 is a number range for 65 wagons):

700999000-064 built 1974 (E431)
https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/polybulk

875699011-025 built 1983 (E644)
https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/frenchpolybulk

7009990222/039/055/056 (E431) renumbered 875699007/008/009/010 (E644) by 1990

875699002-006 (possibly from the 1974 E431 batch ex 700699xxx) renumbered 709382001-005 (E675) by 1990

700999000 (E431) renumbered 709382000 (E431) by 1990

700999006-058 (E431) renumbered 709382006-058 (E431) by 1990

875699021x renumbered 8706990128 by 1998 (info from Paul Bartlett photo)

This photo shows 8756990150, one of the 1983 built E644 wagons, at Dover in 1989. There is a "Pechiney" logo near the roof
https://www.flickr.com/photos/hmillington/2037939627/in/album-72157603210839981/

I see that these wagons have not been in the UK for years, does anyone have any information on the last time these NACCO / Tiger wagons were seen?

These NACCO polybulks operated between France and the UK for Pechiney, conveying elemental silicon (known as silicon metal) to Dow Corning's chemical plant producing silicones at Barry Docks, near Cardiff in Wales. The same traffic to Barry Docks was also carried in containers. I think the polybulks contained powdered/ground silicon and the containers had larger lumps of it inside. The container traffic is still moved by rail to Barry but from the ports, not through the channel tunnel.

I think the rail-connected French production facilities were at Anglefort and Montricher, now owned by Ferropem ("pem" = Pechiney electrometallurgie), producing silicon from quartz.
https://www.ferroglobe.com/about-ferroglobe/industrial-footprint/anglefort
https://www.ferroglobe.com/about-ferroglobe/industrial-footprint/montricher

The silcon traffic in polybulks (TOPS code IRB) to Barry Docks stopped at the end of 2015. Below is a list of wagons used on the Pechiney silicon traffic and the date they left the UK. It looks like the original E431 (built 1974/1975) and E644 (built 1983) wagons were mixed together when renumbered again, and all of them in the list below became E644. Except one... I don't know anything about the E812 wagon in the list, maybe another renumbering...

8006990014 / Mar 2014 / E644 / Built 1975
8006990022 / Mar 2014 / E644 / Built 1983
8006990030 / Oct 2013 / E644 / Built 1983
8006990048 / Dec 2015 / E644 / Built 1974
8006990055 / Jan 2016 / E644 / Built 1974
8006990063 / Jan 2016 / E644 / Built 1975
8006990071 / Dec 2015 / E644 / Built 1975
8006990089 / Dec 2015 / E644 / Built 1975
8006990097 / Nov 2015 / E644 / Built 1975
8006990105 / Dec 2015 / E644 / Built 1975
8006990113 / Dec 2015 / E644 / Built 1975
8006990121 / Jan 2016 / E644 / Built 1975
8093830008 / Dec 2013 / E812 / Built 1975
8706990029 / Oct 2009 / E644 / Built 1975
8706990037 / Mar 1996 / E644 / Built 1975
8706990052 / Jan 2010 / E644 / Built 1983

A couple of photos of this traffic en-route to Barry Docks:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/99279135@N05/13929726598/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/99279135@N05/13929714277/in/photostream/

===================================================

Part 2: STS wagons
https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/stspolybulk

Thanks for the photos of the STS wagons. It looks cold there!

There is a small amount of data in the "TOPS" computer system showing their last journeys in the UK, with the old numbers and diagram. The list below shows the month/year when they were last in the UK, and also the last loaded working (they all returned empty to Europe on the train ferry to Dunkerque). My 1990 wagon book shows the number series as 709382100-129, owned by CAIB/STS (I think STS became part of CAIB then eventually VTG) with the comment "On hire to CITA" which matches the logos in the photos by Paul Bartlett. I think CITA was a Belgian company organising grain transports, similar to TSL / Grainflow in the UK.

7093821003 / Apr 1990 / E574 / Built 1984 / Imported malt to Eccles Road (Norfolk) via train ferry
7093821094 / Mar 1995 / E574 / Built 1984 / Imported malt to Ely (Cambridgeshire) via train ferry
7093821102 / Mar 1990 / E574 / Built 1984 / Imported malt to Keith (Scotland) via train ferry
7093821177 / Mar 1993 / E574 / Built 1984 / Imported grain to Selby (North Yorkshire) via train ferry
7093821185 / May 1993 / E574 / Built 1984 / Imported wheat to Selby (North Yorkshire) via train ferry
7093821227 / Mar 1990 / E574 / Built 1984 / Imported wheat to Selby (North Yorkshire) via train ferry
 

WesternLancer

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2019
Messages
10,256
Hi again, i got more updates of former identifies of the wagon, i'd thank Anton Kendall for his help also.
33 87 9382 031 - 1 >>> 33 70 9382 109
33 87 9382 032 - 9 >>> 33 70 9382 110 - 2

As i promised, here are the images of the catched wagons in Vinkovci.
The wagons have been reclassified recently as Uapps, and now recently again Uafoos.
33 87 F-VTG 9382 046 - 9 Uafoos
View attachment 150282


View attachment 150283

View attachment 150284

View attachment 150285

View attachment 150286

View attachment 150287

Revision, sadly i can't say more becouse i dont know where exactly it made revision.
View attachment 150288

View attachment 150289

View attachment 150290

More wagons are coming into next post!

33 87 F-VTG 9382 048 - 5 Uafoos
View attachment 150291

View attachment 150292


View attachment 150293

33 87 F-VTG 9382 040 - 2 Uafoos
View attachment 150294

View attachment 150295

View attachment 150296

View attachment 150297

View attachment 150298

View attachment 150299

View attachment 150300

View attachment 150301

33 87 F-VTG 9382 022 - 0 Uafoos
View attachment 150302


View attachment 150303

View attachment 150304

View attachment 150305


View attachment 150306

33 87 F-VTG 9382 023 - 8 Uafoos
View attachment 150307


View attachment 150308

View attachment 150309

33 87 F-VTG 9382 044 - 4 Uafoos
View attachment 150310


View attachment 150311

View attachment 150312

Thats all material for now on.
Thanks for posting all these images. Nice to have an overseas correspondent contributing such a full set of images to this UK forum! nice to see them.

Hi, nice to see an update to this thread. The history of these ferry wagons is interesting and I'm glad they are still used in Europe.

Firstly, this section is about your post from February last year, with the photo of 33 87 F-GRSE 9345 955 - 7 Uagpps.



I think there was only one wagon with the E389 design code, 8705980017 (built 1974) which was renumbered 875699001x by 1990.

Your wagon looks very similar to the E431 type in this photo:
https://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/U...red-hoppers/JIA-Traffic-ServicesVTG/i-GBcP5dT

The E431 wagons built in 1974 are very similar to some E644 wagons built in 1983 (the E644 wagons are the "French Polybulks" on Paul Bartlett's site)
The renumberings are confusing! This is what I can work out from a 1990 book listing the ferry wagons used in the UK (N.B. check digits mostly not shown, e.g. 700999000-064 is a number range for 65 wagons):

700999000-064 built 1974 (E431)
https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/polybulk

875699011-025 built 1983 (E644)
https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/frenchpolybulk

7009990222/039/055/056 (E431) renumbered 875699007/008/009/010 (E644) by 1990

875699002-006 (possibly from the 1974 E431 batch ex 700699xxx) renumbered 709382001-005 (E675) by 1990

700999000 (E431) renumbered 709382000 (E431) by 1990

700999006-058 (E431) renumbered 709382006-058 (E431) by 1990

875699021x renumbered 8706990128 by 1998 (info from Paul Bartlett photo)

This photo shows 8756990150, one of the 1983 built E644 wagons, at Dover in 1989. There is a "Pechiney" logo near the roof
https://www.flickr.com/photos/hmillington/2037939627/in/album-72157603210839981/



These NACCO polybulks operated between France and the UK for Pechiney, conveying elemental silicon (known as silicon metal) to Dow Corning's chemical plant producing silicones at Barry Docks, near Cardiff in Wales. The same traffic to Barry Docks was also carried in containers. I think the polybulks contained powdered/ground silicon and the containers had larger lumps of it inside. The container traffic is still moved by rail to Barry but from the ports, not through the channel tunnel.

I think the rail-connected French production facilities were at Anglefort and Montricher, now owned by Ferropem ("pem" = Pechiney electrometallurgie), producing silicon from quartz.
https://www.ferroglobe.com/about-ferroglobe/industrial-footprint/anglefort
https://www.ferroglobe.com/about-ferroglobe/industrial-footprint/montricher

The silcon traffic in polybulks (TOPS code IRB) to Barry Docks stopped at the end of 2015. Below is a list of wagons used on the Pechiney silicon traffic and the date they left the UK. It looks like the original E431 (built 1974/1975) and E644 (built 1983) wagons were mixed together when renumbered again, and all of them in the list below became E644. Except one... I don't know anything about the E812 wagon in the list, maybe another renumbering...

8006990014 / Mar 2014 / E644 / Built 1975
8006990022 / Mar 2014 / E644 / Built 1983
8006990030 / Oct 2013 / E644 / Built 1983
8006990048 / Dec 2015 / E644 / Built 1974
8006990055 / Jan 2016 / E644 / Built 1974
8006990063 / Jan 2016 / E644 / Built 1975
8006990071 / Dec 2015 / E644 / Built 1975
8006990089 / Dec 2015 / E644 / Built 1975
8006990097 / Nov 2015 / E644 / Built 1975
8006990105 / Dec 2015 / E644 / Built 1975
8006990113 / Dec 2015 / E644 / Built 1975
8006990121 / Jan 2016 / E644 / Built 1975
8093830008 / Dec 2013 / E812 / Built 1975
8706990029 / Oct 2009 / E644 / Built 1975
8706990037 / Mar 1996 / E644 / Built 1975
8706990052 / Jan 2010 / E644 / Built 1983

A couple of photos of this traffic en-route to Barry Docks:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/99279135@N05/13929726598/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/99279135@N05/13929714277/in/photostream/

===================================================

Part 2: STS wagons
https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/stspolybulk

Thanks for the photos of the STS wagons. It looks cold there!

There is a small amount of data in the "TOPS" computer system showing their last journeys in the UK, with the old numbers and diagram. The list below shows the month/year when they were last in the UK, and also the last loaded working (they all returned empty to Europe on the train ferry to Dunkerque). My 1990 wagon book shows the number series as 709382100-129, owned by CAIB/STS (I think STS became part of CAIB then eventually VTG) with the comment "On hire to CITA" which matches the logos in the photos by Paul Bartlett. I think CITA was a Belgian company organising grain transports, similar to TSL / Grainflow in the UK.

7093821003 / Apr 1990 / E574 / Built 1984 / Imported malt to Eccles Road (Norfolk) via train ferry
7093821094 / Mar 1995 / E574 / Built 1984 / Imported malt to Ely (Cambridgeshire) via train ferry
7093821102 / Mar 1990 / E574 / Built 1984 / Imported malt to Keith (Scotland) via train ferry
7093821177 / Mar 1993 / E574 / Built 1984 / Imported grain to Selby (North Yorkshire) via train ferry
7093821185 / May 1993 / E574 / Built 1984 / Imported wheat to Selby (North Yorkshire) via train ferry
7093821227 / Mar 1990 / E574 / Built 1984 / Imported wheat to Selby (North Yorkshire) via train ferry
Thanks for posting all that - interesting read this info in your post.
 

Domagoj Vu

Member
Joined
24 Aug 2017
Messages
21
Hi Adrian, thanks for the information, sadly i think 33 87 F-GRSE 9345 955 - 7 Uagpps are olny of few survivors, i can't see any of them on any social media these wagons, especially in Italy which i assume most of them are scrapped or just really rare and impossible to catch!??? The actual keeper of this wagon is Millet S.A.S but for some reason it sill carrys Granit Negoce Service as keeper instead of Millet.

Yep, CITA is Belgian wagon leasors, olny for grain, from G(h)ent, and most of them had depot station registered as Gent Zeehaven, they eventually merged with TMF to form TMF ⚓︎ CITA.
TMF ⚓︎ CITA has been acquired by VTG, but sadly im not familiar when it was bought by VTG. Dozen of these former CITA / TMF CITA Belgian wagons are common in Croatia, Hungary, Romania and Italy.

STS is olny that mysteriously has been gone, probarly acquired by CITA also, which i have to do research.
 

Adrian Barr

Member
Joined
2 Jul 2020
Messages
434
Location
Doncaster
A previous post in this thread had a link which mentions that Storage & Transport Systems (STS) was part of the Belgian CAIB group.

In the TOPS computer system, the STS owner prefix is explained as CAIB UK LTD(STORAGE & TRANSPORT SYSTEM DIVISION),WOKING.

The STS name gradually disappeared from wagons in the UK, and the UK division of CAIB later became part of VTG.

VTG Rail UK Ltd was established in 2002, following VTG’s acquisition of Brambles European Rail Division.
Prior to that the company traded as CAIB UK Ltd, tracing its roots through the decades with companies such as Procor, STS, BRTE, and Traffic Services.
https://uk.vtg.com/company

At least a few of the wagons survive!
 
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