Pontefract - kirkgate linespeed

[matacaster]

Any idea why grand central service has to travel at such a low speed - i know there is mining subsidence, but ride quality seems ok. Anyone know of any plans to increase line speed?

 

[anti-pacer]

Any idea why grand central service has to travel at such a low speed - i know there is mining subsidence, but ride quality seems ok. Anyone know of any plans to increase line speed?

I live on the very edge of Wakefield and ALL the trains pass the back of my flat at snail's speed. I've always wondered why.

When I last used GC to travel to London (May), I was frustrated how slow it was between Wakefield and Doncaster.

 

[jayah]

Any idea why grand central service has to travel at such a low speed - i know there is mining subsidence, but ride quality seems ok. Anyone know of any plans to increase line speed?

According to my S.A it is 50mph Crofton West to Tanshelf. It must be very frustrating as it looks like a good alignment and judging by Streetview looks to be in pretty good nick too.

Like much of the railway north of Watford that isn't on the arterial routes to/from London, very little money and effort has been applied in trying to get the most out of it, and what was good enough in the 1970s will have to do in the 21st century. At least in this case the defence is that it wasn't much of a passenger route for a long time.

 

[lincolnshire]

From Shaftholme Junction on the East Coast up to Knottingly West Junction until Grand Central started running to Bradford Interchange was only a freight route so speed didn,t matter that much.

Knottingly to Wakefield Kirkgate was just a slow passenger service where speed didn,t matter that much. It was a railway that hasn,t changed much speed wise I would guess for years as there isn,t much to gain as its mostly freight that runs along that piece of line. In the past a lot of freight trains where speed didn,t matter.

Its a pity Knottingly station was not on the other side of Knottingly West Junction then it could have had direct to London trains, that would have looked good at Kings Cross on the departure boards for Grand Central, calling at Doncaster , Knottingly, Pontefract Monkhill, Wakefield Westgate etc. The southerners would be saying where is this place called Knottingly then?

If Grand Central was allowed up the mainline towards Wakefield Westgate they could branch off at Hare Park and go back on there route that would speed things up.

 

[louis97]

If Grand Central was allowed up the mainline towards Wakefield Westgate they could branch off at Hare Park and go back on there route that would speed things up.

Some Grand Central services do go this way, obviously they can't serve Pontefract on the services that do.

 

[lincolnshire]

Some Grand Central services do go this way, obviously they can't serve Pontefract on the services that do.

They will be like the Hull Trains when they get diverted via Goole and have to miss Selby when problems arise on the usual route.

 

[lejog]

Some Grand Central services do go this way, obviously they can't serve Pontefract on the services that do.

But the weekday service from Bradford that omits Pontefract is no quicker, it arrives at Kirkgate at 8.38am, sits there until 8.55 then crawls to Doncaster for an 8.29 arrival - a total of 51 minutes. The evening returns are a little quicker at 31mins and 24mins and then only stop at Kirkgate for a minute or two. All Sunday services omit Pontefract and are around 25mins.

 

[YorkshireBear]

The line speeds were not required to be high, keeping them on a cheaper simply maintenance strategy. Four grand central services a day paying lower track access charges does not give NR the impetus to change that and quite rightly.

 

[louis97]

They will be like the Hull Trains when they get diverted via Goole and have to miss Selby when problems arise on the usual route.

No, no diversion, some trains are booked to go this way.

But the weekday service from Bradford that omits Pontefract is no quicker, it arrives at Kirkgate at 8.38am, sits there until 8.55 then crawls to Doncaster for an 8.29 arrival - a total of 51 minutes. The evening returns are a little quicker at 31mins and 24mins and then only stop at Kirkgate for a minute or two. All Sunday services omit Pontefract and are around 25mins.

Not because of the line speed though, I think 23 minutes is possible without any pathing allowance. The first train you quote has about 12 minutes pathing allowance, plus the time sat at Kirkgate.

 

[paul1609]

According to my S.A it is 50mph Crofton West to Tanshelf. It must be very frustrating as it looks like a good alignment and judging by Streetview looks to be in pretty good nick too.

Like much of the railway north of Watford that isn't on the arterial routes to/from London, very little money and effort has been applied in trying to get the most out of it, and what was good enough in the 1970s will have to do in the 21st century. At least in this case the defence is that it wasn't much of a passenger route for a long time.

Its not just north of Watford Marshlink's speed limit is 60 mph maximum with nearly 5 miles at 40 mph leaving Hastings, North Downs line has some very low limits. Even the Main Ashford line in South London has been reduced from 90 mph to 70 mph as far as Chislehurst junction with some junctions reduced to 50 mph.

 

[Crossover]

Bearing in mind that Kirkgate to Knottingley was closed to passengers for some time it is easy to see why the linespeeds aren't great.

I have done the route on a 180 a few times as it does feel like walking would be quicker at times!

I'm not sure if there is an element of defensive driving too - I have been on services which have gone quicker on that line and sat at Pontefract Monkhill for a few minutes whereas others seem to have taken a more leisurely journey and arrived at Pontefract at booked time - of course, what I cannot see is if the signals were restrictive at the time

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Is it not the case that the weekday services which omit PonteCarlo sometimes run via that route anyway rather than via Hare Park? So they need padding in the timetable to allow for the extra time taken via Askern?

 

[Crossover]

Is it not the case that the weekday services which omit PonteCarlo sometimes run via that route anyway rather than via Hare Park? So they need padding in the timetable to allow for the extra time taken via Askern?

All the ones that have run via Pontefract that I have travelled on have called there from what I can recall

 

[yorkie]

Is it not the case that the weekday services which omit PonteCarlo sometimes run via that route anyway rather than via Hare Park? So they need padding in the timetable to allow for the extra time taken via Askern?

They are not booked to run via Askern/Pontefract, at least not on a normal weekday timetable currently. It adds significantly to the journey time e.g. 2123 from DON booked 22 minutes to WKK compared to 40 minutes for the 1225 departure from DON.