Poor boarding experience at Euston (11/03)

[exbrel]

Yesterday, Monday 11/3/24, I arrived at 1225 to catch the 1253 Euston to Manchester Picc.

On the board it said words to the effect boarding details at 1235, I had seen on app that it "might" be 14, so had a look, but nothing there, although a few people were gathered there.

At 1239, it appeared at the platform screen, so I went to the ticket check, where it was shown that 1246 was when the gate would be shut, so 6mins from the boards to the gate, then 7mins before the departure time to load everyone.

This was my first visit in over a year, and with the heads-up about what platform, I missed the rush, if there still is one, but those times did not seem much if you've luggage and find your coach if you've got a reservation etc...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Don't think you'll find many people who don't think Euston is a joke in terms of how it is operated. Nothing has been fixed despite Network Rail being slated by ORR about it, all they've done is made the main boards suppress the platform a little longer which makes it worse.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. There will be a bad accident at Euston in the scrum one day. Network Rail will claim their defense is "we painted "do not run" on the floor" but overlook they don't give people enough time & not everyone is stareing at the floor.
When this inevitable accident occurs I'll find this post and say "I told you so"
It's particularly frustrating as the railways keep banging on about safety, but then do this unsafe practice and thus make a mockery of their other safety policies.

 

[Carlisle]

Whatever boarding procedures are adopted it’s ultimately unavoidable that cleaners, train crew & fitters probably need around 15 minutes minimum to prepare an empty train properly between journeys.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Whatever boarding procedures are adopted it’s ultimately unavoidable that cleaners, train crew & fitters probably need around 15 minutes minimum to prepare an empty train properly between journeys.

It's not unavoidable at all, because it doesn't happen at Manchester Piccadilly. They don't even lock the doors, you can board early if you want, though it's inadvisable without a reserved seat as the reservations usually aren't up.

It would be perfectly possible to tip out, lock the doors then advertise the platform. Maybe not quite as easy for the cleaners, but possible as they can access the train from the crew doors at the ends.

 

[ainsworth74]

Whatever boarding procedures are adopted it’s ultimately unavoidable that cleaners, train crew & fitters probably need around 15 minutes minimum to prepare an empty train properly between journeys.

But it only seems to be Euston where there is the constant issue of a "scrum". Kings Cross, Paddington, Liverpool Street, etc all manage (the majority of the time anyway) to board their long distance services without any sort of "scrum" occurring so clearly something is going wrong at Euston and has been for some time.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But it only seems to be Euston where there is the constant issue of a "scrum". Kings Cross, Paddington, Liverpool Street, etc all manage (the majority of the time anyway) to board their long distance services without any sort of "scrum" occurring so clearly something is going wrong at Euston and has been for some time.

Paddington in my experience is almost as bad, it's just easier to avoid it by sneaking in via the overbridge assuming your ticket opens the gate. I don't know about Liverpool St. I suspect with Kings X IC services it's more to do with how many people have reservations - the WCML has better value walk up fares than the ECML (or any, if you're going to Scotland) and so more people are using them. I do think it'd make a significant difference if Avanti offered the option to make last minute standalone reservations with seat selection like LNER do and really pushed the idea, as that would leave only a relative few scrapping for the last seats in coach C/U.

What would be interesting to see is how much it differs between services calling at MKC and services not, and between Birminghams (which will have a higher proportion of season ticket holders) and other services.

They also need to pack in hiding platforms for LNR and London Overground. They never did it in the past and it was fine. These aren't serviced at Euston (bar a quick pass through from a cleaner sometimes) and now don't portion work there so there's no reason at all to do so.

 

[MrJeeves]

I do think it'd make a significant difference if Avanti offered the option to make last minute standalone reservations with seat selection like LNER do and really pushed the idea, as that would leave only a relative few scrapping for the last seats in coach C/U.

In my experience last week on 3 different LNER services, the last minute reservations I made were never actually loaded on to the train, so wouldn't prevent someone sitting down and going "but it says available!" (as Avanti don't show "may be reserved later", but that might be sorted as part of the upcoming replacement of reservation displays!).

 

[Bletchleyite]

In my experience last week on 3 different LNER services, the last minute reservations I made were never actually loaded on to the train, so wouldn't prevent someone sitting down and going "but it says available!" (as Avanti don't show "may be reserved later", but that might be sorted as part of the upcoming replacement of reservation displays!).

Yes, that needs fixing, happened to me in North Wales last week with a last-minute ticket purchase. Fortunately nobody was sat there.

 

[Carlisle]

It's not unavoidable at all, because it doesn't happen at Manchester Piccadilly.

I believe cleaners board most northbound Avanti trains at Stockport meaning reduced turnaround time needed compared to Euston.

 

[800001]

In my experience last week on 3 different LNER services, the last minute reservations I made were never actually loaded on to the train, so wouldn't prevent someone sitting down and going "but it says available!" (as Avanti don't show "may be reserved later", but that might be sorted as part of the upcoming replacement of reservation displays!).

If you reserve a seat less than 25 minutes before departure from origin station, or after train departed, then on LNER the 5 minute seat reservation will not show on the digital reservation displays, the display reads something like ‘maybe reserved’ , it doesn’t say ‘available’.
Only ones that say available are the half coach C which will have a green light displayed.

 

[Starmill]

Euston is far worse than anywhere else. Recently they put up a "platform closing in" countdown timer on the screens at the top of the platform access. This is sometimes set to start with as little as a minute to go. If they can't get this to show reasonable times they should suppress this countdown function completely because all it does is increase people's anxiety and urgency to push forward.

Don't think you'll find many people who don't think Euston is a joke in terms of how it is operated. Nothing has been fixed despite Network Rail being slated by ORR about it, all they've done is made the main boards suppress the platform a little longer which makes it worse.

It's deeply worrying that ORR got involved both publicly and privately weeks and weeks ago and the practices haven't improved. Network Rail and Avanti West Coast senior management should be ashamed of the experience they're providing, and deeply worried about the safety implications ORR rightly raised.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Euston is far worse than anywhere else. Recently they put up a "platform closing in" countdown timer on the screens at the top of the platform access. This is sometimes set to start with as little as a minute to go. If they can't get this to show reasonable times they should suppress this countdown function completely because all it does is increase people's anxiety and urgency to push forward.

Last time I used Euston I'm almost certain I noticed that had been removed. Not sure if it's come back - I'm sick of Euston since the awful new boards were installed and have been using Aylesbury Vale Parkway to go to London instead a fair bit instead recently assuming I'm not intending to drink alcohol (as I have to drive there). It's slower and less frequent but just civilised in comparison.

(Marylebone sort of has the same thing but staff don't care if you go through the gateline and wait somewhere out of the way, and in any case the rush for a 2-car DMU can't be anything like as bad as that for a 12-car EMU).

 

[dk1]

Yes was like this last week and made worse by the incoming service being delayed. Half way through boarding ticket checks revenue staff were told to stop and let everybody pile on. Just got used to this over the years.

 

[Jimini]

Last time I used Euston I'm almost certain I noticed that had been removed. Not sure if it's come back

It’s been on there every time I’ve passed through to get an Avanti service recently (at least twice a week).

 

[Bletchleyite]

It’s been on there every time I’ve passed through to get an Avanti service recently (at least twice a week).

Ah, possibly there was a fault when I saw it missing. Shame, I thought it sensible to remove it.

 

[The Planner]

I believe cleaners board most northbound Avanti trains at Stockport meaning reduced turnaround time needed compared to Euston.

Nope, Man Picc has a longer turnaround than Euston. 30 at Picc, 25 at Euston for Man Picc trains.

 

[MontyP]

Yesterday, Monday 11/3/24, I arrived at 1225 to catch the 1253 Euston to Manchester Picc.

On the board it said words to the effect boarding details at 1235, I had seen on app that it "might" be 14, so had a look, but nothing there, although a few people were gathered there.

At 1239, it appeared at the platform screen, so I went to the ticket check, where it was shown that 1246 was when the gate would be shut, so 6mins from the boards to the gate, then 7mins before the departure time to load everyone.

This was my first visit in over a year, and with the heads-up about what platform, I missed the rush, if there still is one, but those times did not seem much if you've luggage and find your coach if you've got a reservation etc...

Why do they close the platform 7 mins before departure? I often arrive for long-distance journeys with 5 mins to spare and have never seen this.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why do they close the platform 7 mins before departure? I often arrive for long-distance journeys with 5 mins to spare and have never seen this.

They don't, it's 2 minutes. What they were saying was that they don't leave enough time before that.

 

[Carlisle]

K

Nope, Man Picc has a longer turnaround than Euston. 30 at Picc, 25 at Euston for Man Picc trains.

Ok thanks for the correction, so that explains why it’s often so difficult to get servicing & boarding done in a timely manor at Euston .

 

[irish_rail]

This is a big bugbear of mine , although at Paddington, which personally I find worse than Euston. The amount of times I am at the front of the train, got a full crew , and wanting to depart on time for Plymouth, but due to late incoming set needing servicing the set doesn't board until about 5 mins before departure time. Longer turnarounds are needed at intercity Termini in my opinion, though I suspect the issue is that would need more train sets!

 

[The Planner]

This is a big bugbear of mine , although at Paddington, which personally I find worse than Euston. The amount of times I am at the front of the train, got a full crew , and wanting to depart on time for Plymouth, but due to late incoming set needing servicing the set doesn't board until about 5 mins before departure time. Longer turnarounds are needed at intercity Termini in my opinion, though I suspect the issue is that would need more train sets!

Would need more platforms as well.

 

[RailWonderer]

This is a big bugbear of mine , although at Paddington, which personally I find worse than Euston. The amount of times I am at the front of the train, got a full crew , and wanting to depart on time for Plymouth, but due to late incoming set needing servicing the set doesn't board until about 5 mins before departure time. Longer turnarounds are needed at intercity Termini in my opinion, though I suspect the issue is that would need more train sets!

Paddington varies by service, but Euston is consistently bad. Liverpool St manages it best, with 15 mins given for commuter services and 20 for the Norwich IC. Cleaners are cleaning the train while people board and it works fine. People gradually board and there never is a scrum unless the train was late on arrival and a last minute platform subsitution happens, or if the previous was cancelled.

 

[Carlisle]

Cleaners are cleaning the train while people board and it works fine.

It may work ok on commuter stock with more room, less litter, much less luggage & probably no tables but virtually impossible on Inter City stock , which is why it’s not generally done that way by any Inter City TOC as far as I’m aware.The 2 options are either travelling cleaners or sufficient turnaround time at termini.

 

[Deafdoggie]

It may work ok on commuter stock with more room, less litter, much less luggage & probably no tables but virtually impossible on Inter City stock , which is why it’s not generally done that way by any Inter City TOC as far as I’m aware.The 2 options are either travelling cleaners or sufficient turnaround time at termini.

But why can't they lock the train whilst they do it? That way passengers can wait on the platform and not stampede at the last minute

 

[Bletchleyite]

But why can't they lock the train whilst they do it? That way passengers can wait on the platform and not stampede at the last minute

They absolutely could. It wouldn't be as easy for them, which means they'd have to put the customer first. Which unfortunately isn't the railway's mentality.

Bring it in, tip it out, lock the doors and call it. Staff access via the staff doors with a Tensabarrier blocking access. Passengers can queue by the door if they wish, giving them time to find their coach etc. Easy.

 

[Carlisle]

But why can't they lock the train whilst they do it? That way passengers can wait on the platform and not stampede at the last minute

I agree, I think LNER do or used to do that certainly at some locations like Edinburgh

 

[Nottingham59]

They absolutely could. It wouldn't be as easy for them, which means they'd have to put the customer first. Which unfortunately isn't the railway's mentality.

Bring it in, tip it out, lock the doors and call it. Staff access via the staff doors with a Tensabarrier blocking access. Passengers can queue by the door if they wish, giving them time to find their coach etc. Easy.

The Japanese seem to manage it. I do find it odd that the rail industry here has never, as far as I can see, tried to adopt best practice from other countries in optimising the turnaround times of intercity trains. The savings to be made from not having to build new station capacity run into the billions.

 

[Peter0124]

Nope, Man Picc has a longer turnaround than Euston. 30 at Picc, 25 at Euston for Man Picc trains.

If it's the xx:53 Euston-Manchester trains then the turnaround time is usually booked at 40 minutes, as most of them are booked to form off the 1Mxx Glasgow-Euston via Trent Valley services which arrive into Euston at xx:13. The 09:53 through to 19:53 Euston-Manchester departures are all booked to form from that hours 1Mxx (1R22 for the 09:53) though diagram swaps are common place at Euston so it isn't always the case in reality.

The turnaround time obviously depends on whether the 1Mxx is on time arriving (Sometimes isn't as its one of the longest routes). And sometimes the xx:53 Euston-Manchester will form off a different inbound if set swaps are made (common at Euston) or if 1Mxx is too late. But generally the xx:53 is the longest turnaround for Euston-Manchester, with the xx:33 having the shortest (though a Birmingham inbound so maybe less cleaning than for example a Scotland inbound?).

And in the case of the OP, the inbound train was 1M08 which arrived early at 12:07!

 

[Deepgreen]

Is this a similar thread to this? Dangerous boarding procedures at Euston