Portable GSMR ?

[yorksrob]

Given the expense of having this thing fitted, and the difficulties this creates for some railtour operators, couldn't NR get a portable version cleared that could be borrowed by operators ?

 

[badassunicorn]

I gather that there is a portable GSMR, I've never actually seen one, but I've heard it discussed at work if a radio fails, its at outstations.

 

[yorksrob]

I gather that there is a portable GSMR, I've never actually seen one, but I've heard it discussed at work if a radio fails, its at outstations.

That's interesting. Thanks for the info.

I suppose there's nothing to stop such a thing being used with a train that doesn't have GSMR fitted ?

 

[PermitToTravel]

Portable GSM-R handsets are commercially available, for example these. They are used in other countries.

 

[yorksrob]

Thanks. I'm guessing its the testing that makes it so expensive to fit to trains here.

 

[starrymarkb]

how much would it cost to fit GSM-R to a kettle? I'm guessing someone paid for NRN and CSR to be fitted before that?

 

[yorksrob]

how much would it cost to fit GSM-R to a kettle? I'm guessing someone paid for NRN and CSR to be fitted before that?

I wasn't thinking Kettles, but I hear it's in the region of 50k for a heritage train !

 

[bronzeonion]

Good thought actually as with the LU Connect Radio afaik when a train without a built in Connect Radio operates the driver can work it as long as he/she carries a mobile version. Maybe this could be a cheap fix for getting locos/trains without a built in GSMR back on the mainline like the few AC electrics up north that don't have it fitted yet.

 

[VP185]

Heathrow Expeess and Connect trains are not fitted with GSM-R, they still rely on CSR. The company refuses to pay the installation costs so is GSM-R essential?

 

[Hyphen]

A few years ago, before ATW started to fit GSM-R to lines away from the Cambrian, there was engineering work on the SWML which necessitated the use of GSM-R. Drivers were issued with handhelds (SagemCom, like the above link - but yellow!) leaving Newport and Cardiff, and handed them back in at the other side.

 

[Pumbaa]

There are portable GSMR kits, they come in a carry on suitcase arrangement and are, err, not very portable.

 

[carriageline]

Heathrow Expeess and Connect trains are not fitted with GSM-R, they still rely on CSR. The company refuses to pay the installation costs so is GSM-R essential?

Yes, one day CSR will be turned off, and infact everywhere below a certain point is already turned off, where that is I cannot remember!

Portable GSMR kits are also, or we're meant to be available to track staff/MOMs, i have seen a portable kit, and it is was the size of an old school phone!

 

[HSTfan!!!]

A few years ago, before ATW started to fit GSM-R to lines away from the Cambrian, there was engineering work on the SWML which necessitated the use of GSM-R. Drivers were issued with handhelds (SagemCom, like the above link - but yellow!) leaving Newport and Cardiff, and handed them back in at the other side.

These were IVRS handsets, not true GSM-R, it could only be used for the railway emergency group call function and then only the driver could initiate it.

The portable GSM-R kits are a huge suitcase affair, as said "portable" is a bit of a red herring.

 

[t_star2001uk]

These were IVRS handsets, not true GSM-R, it could only be used for the railway emergency group call function and then only the driver could initiate it.

The portable GSM-R kits are a huge suitcase affair, as said "portable" is a bit of a red herring.

you beat me to it. I have seen a "portable" GSM-R system at a trade show and i totally agree that the word "portable" shouldn't be included....

 

[TheEdge]

Well, they are portable in the most basic sense of they are not attached to a train and can be moved. The fact they need two or more people to move them safely is another matter...

 

[NSEFAN]

Well, they are portable in the most basic sense of they are not attached to a train and can be moved. The fact they need two or more people to move them safely is another matter...

What is the handset doing that can't be done in the size of a normal GSM phone? Has it got a black box tape recorder of some kind?

 

[swt_passenger]

Yes, one day CSR will be turned off, and infact everywhere below a certain point is already turned off, where that is I cannot remember!

I think it was just the National Radio Network (NRN) that was switched off everywhere in the south, i.e. 'below a line'. (The line being from Severn to the Wash.)

 

[TheEdge]

What is the handset doing that can't be done in the size of a normal GSM phone? Has it got a black box tape recorder of some kind?

I don't know what it is all made of but the portable units around here are the handset attached to a display and keypad identical to fitted ones then an enormous lump of stuff (ours sit in the big wheeled traincrew bags). Not entirely sure what the lump is but I've always assumed its the radio equipment and battery pack(s).

 

[jopsuk]

Heathrow Expeess and Connect trains are not fitted with GSM-R, they still rely on CSR. The company refuses to pay the installation costs so is GSM-R essential?

On lines where the signalling is being changed to ETCS (in cab), GSM-R is an integral part of that system

 

[carriageline]

I think it was just the National Radio Network (NRN) that was switched off everywhere in the south, i.e. 'below a line'. (The line being from Severn to the Wash.)

Sorry, I think you are correct! I remember reading an old forum post on the Internal NR forum discussing the switch off, and thought it was CSR (was sometime ago and it was casual reading)! Makes a lot of sense as I have been in a few PSBs and they still have CSR/GSMR working alongside!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[A-driver]

Regarding steam traction getting GSMR, there certainly are steam engines with GSMR fitted already in the UK. I know nothing about steam so don't know which ones have them but when I was trained in GSMR the trainer was saying that they have had to go back to re-train the firemen instead of drivers as they were fitted too close to the firebox so melted fairly quickly. They have now been relocated onto the tender wall so the fireman needs to operate them.

 

[W230]

Heathrow Expeess and Connect trains are not fitted with GSM-R, they still rely on CSR. The company refuses to pay the installation costs so is GSM-R essential?

I doubt the company has a choice. When NR want to switch off CSR then there'll only be GSM-R. My guess is that it's likely that they haven't (needed) to get round to it yet.

 

[cjmillsnun]

I suspect the HEX 332s will be done in time, but the 360s they'll probably hold off if at all possible.

 

[Tracky]

http://www.gsmronline.com/cabmobile/story_16.php

 

[t_star2001uk]

What is the handset doing that can't be done in the size of a normal GSM phone? Has it got a black box tape recorder of some kind?

The IVRS handsets that you are refering to do not have the ability to log in a a certain location, they are more of a generalised system. So the signaller cannot identify a specific train by an IVRS handset in the same way as they can with GSM-R. With GSM-R a signaller can sent messages straight to the radio display in the cab, with IVRS that facility is not available.

 

[O L Leigh]

There are other shortcomings with the IVRS handsets apart from the ones you identify.

The GSM-R network does not universally support IVRS in all areas, only those where train detection is provided by axle counters. The IVRS was intended as an interim emergency communication in the first instance until GSM-R had been rolled out because track circuit clips would be ineffective on axle counter areas. It may have had other features, but the main purpose of the IVRS system was to make and receive emergency broadcasts.

Another point to make is that GSM-R provides other functions other than communication. For example, it is tied into driver vigilance/DSD systems to send an emergency message to the controlling signaller in the event of something bad happening to the driver. Admittedly this may not apply too much to heritage charters, but it does illustrate the point that the GSM-R is more than just a phone.

O L Leigh

 

[captainbigun]

Another point to make is that GSM-R provides other functions other than communication. For example, it is tied into driver vigilance/DSD systems to send an emergency message to the controlling signaller in the event of something bad happening to the driver. Admittedly this may not apply too much to heritage charters, but it does illustrate the point that the GSM-R is more than just a phone.

O L Leigh

And the interface to DSD etc is part of the Group standard for train borne install so you'd need to shuffle the non-compliance paperwork for use of portable only, and I cannot think of good reason why this would be accepted by the RSSB. Cost is not an excuse.