Porterbrook Cl.769 'Flex' trains from 319s, initially for Northern

[D9006]

450 lasted a day, was due off Springs Branch earlier but is not playing ball this morning!

realtrain times only showing 442 and 456 playing out today, unless I missed something, if one of them sits down then the other has to retire

 

[pokemonsuper9]

The one and only bay at Oxford Road is Platform 5, normally used by Southport services and the hourly stopper to Liverpool Lime Street. If a 769 was stabled there those services would need to be replatformed.

While I was reffering to Wigan, Platform 3 can kind of be a bay platform at Oxford Road (Although it has some limitations in terms of when trains are allowed into the platform due to signal overlap)

realtrain times only showing 442 and 456 playing out today, unless I missed something, if one of them sits down then the other has to retire

I see 442 and 456 out currently, and it looks like 448 is coming into play later today swapping from 156415 + 156464.

2W46 0831 Southport to Stalybridge - 156415 + 156464
2W11 1052 Stalybridge to Southport - No allocation
2O77 1304 Southport to Manchester Oxford Road - 769448

 

[Geeves]

realtrain times only showing 442 and 456 playing out today, unless I missed something, if one of them sits down then the other has to retire

450 was due off Springs Branch early this morning but 156427+150150 came off Newton Heath instead to pick up that 769 diagram

448 is swapping with 156415+464 shortly onto 2W11 from Victoria onwards

 

[Bikeman78]

Does anyone know why 769s are so unreliable. Never been on one myself but i remember the 319s on Thameslink were decent performers reliability wise.

What in the conversion process was changed to make the decently reliable 319s become very unreliable 769s ?

I suspect that a 769 that ran around on electric power only for several months would achieve a similar reliability figure to a 319. As I understand it, most of the faults occur when running on diesel or switching modes.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

As I understand it, most of the faults occur when running on diesel or switching modes.

I've seen all variety of faults happen, but indeed a lot of them happen at Bolton where trains can use other platforms with minor or no inconvenience (future Ince which has no ability to pass).

 

[Bikeman78]

I've seen all variety of faults happen, but indeed a lot of them happen at Bolton where trains can use other platforms with minor or no inconvenience (future Ince which has no ability to pass).

The 319s were already the least reliable of the 1980s BR units, with the possible exception of classes 318 and 320. This was inevitable as they had more things to go wrong, compared with a straight DC or AC unit. On the last day on Thameslink, one of the units had a fault which meant it didn't power on AC but worked fine south of Farringdon when it switched to DC. I seem to recall that it ran empty from Blackfriars or Farringdon to Bedford on the return run.

For comparison, a DC only class 378/1 achieves 16,302 miles between faults whilst a dual voltage 378/2 achieves 10,602 miles. It's impossible to compare the 377/2 with the others because the 377/1, 377/2, and 377/4 are all lumped together.

 

[nightflyian]

Anyone know what was the issue with 448 on the 1325 Southport to Stalybridge service which caused consider knock on around the rush hour this evening ? It appeared to get as far as Meols Cop, and then I beileve a rescue train had to recover it

 

[Dspatula]

I've seen all variety of faults happen, but indeed a lot of them happen at Bolton where trains can use other platforms with minor or no inconvenience (future Ince which has no ability to pass).

They fail in AC just as much, plenty have sat down at Moses gate, Clifton or not made it out vic on the first run of the day. The rumour mill says Ince change over won't be happening.

 

[david l]

They fail in AC just as much, plenty have sat down at Moses gate, Clifton or not made it out vic on the first run of the day. The rumour mill says Ince change over won't be happening.

Which would make the Wigan-Lostock Junc electrification even more like the Ordsall Chord in respect of a very poor return on capital.

 

[Killingworth]

Which would make the Wigan-Lostock Junc electrification even more like the Ordsall Chord in respect of a very poor return on capital.

Adding to quite a long list including the Hope Valley Capacity Scheme and all the work that went into planning Piccadilly Platforms 15/16 that isn't going to happen!

 

[AMD]

Anyone know what was the issue with 448

Something to do with the onboard electrics - as soon as it got moving the power would cut out.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

or not made it out vic on the first run of the day.

That is a power changeover issue isn't it? First train of the day comes of Newton Heath on diesel and switches to Electric at Vic for Stalybridge?

 

[Geeves]

That is a power changeover issue isn't it? First train of the day comes of Newton Heath on diesel and switches to Electric at Vic for Stalybridge?

Some times it doesn't leave the depot to do a power change over!

Here's how things are looking today

424 - Allerton
431 - Out
434 - Kilmarnock
442 - Allerton
448 - Out
450 - Allerton
456 - Allerton
458 - Out

Picking up the slack

150104 + 156418
150133 + 150150
150113
156459
150145

 

[Dspatula]

That is a power changeover issue isn't it? First train of the day comes of Newton Heath on diesel and switches to Electric at Vic for Stalybridge?

No both first runs to Southport from Vic come from Allterton as 5J01 and 5J02.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

No both first runs to Southport from Vic come from Allterton as 5J01 and 5J02.

Ah, didn't realise that the one off Newton Heath arrived after the first from Allerton.

I was referring to 5Y90/2Y90, which does power changeover in Manchester Victoria platform 1 at 6am

 

[Gricer99]

Has the 769 performance increased recently? I'm guessing not.

 

[Geeves]

Has the 769 performance increased recently? I'm guessing not.

3 started today and so far 3 are still out so that is better than some days!

 

[david l]

There is a 5Q36 11.01 Crewe TMD (E) to Allerton tomorrow on 319 timings so am presuming that this is one of the ex-TfW 769's (421/52) previously promised. Reported that the other one is in Crewe South Yard.
Update 11.00 19/6:- 5Q36 now cancelled, but there is a 5Q42 11.16 Crewe South Yard to Crewe TMD (E) which could be the other one being moved............
Further update at 11.55 19/6:- 5Q36 now amended to be 13.35 Crewe TMD (E)- Allerton this afternoon, 5Q42 not moved and as the LD from Derby has been cancelled, suspect 5Q42 also.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 13:52 ==

769421 on 5Q36 now in Crewe station, but hasbeen put into No. 9 from which there is no WCML access without a shuffle!

 

[Geeves]

769421 on 5Q36 now in Crewe station, but hasbeen put into No. 9 from which there is no WCML access without a shuffle!

I watched it leave Crewe towards Chester but then it just vanished from thin air! I can only assume it went back to the sidings?

431, 450, 456 and 458 are all out today and have been since this morning. So far so good!

 

[david l]

I watched it leave Crewe towards Chester but then it just vanished from thin air! I can only assume it went back to the sidings?

431, 450, 456 and 458 are all out today and have been since this morning. So far so good!

Assume 769421 has gone back to Crewe TMD (E). Did take 14 minutes to get from Crewe TMD (E) to Crewe station non-stop though, which might account for its back to base return. Also had a very shiny pantograph.

 

[507016]

Any idea why it wouldve been cancelled?

 

[andrewslack]

I've never seen a TfW 769 and I thought they'd all been withdrawn. The thread about them has been closed for replies for 2 years, but today I saw 769421 at Crewe in one of the North end bay platforms that usually has 197s. Are they still using them/using them again? I took photos but they're still trapped in my camera for now.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 21:35 ==

On further investigation it seems to have been 5Q36 1335 Crewe T.M.D. (E) to Allerton Depot. Anyone any idea what's happening with it?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 21:36 ==

I've never seen a TfW 769 and I thought they'd all been withdrawn. The thread about them has been closed for replies for 2 years, but today I saw 769421 at Crewe in one of the North end bay platforms that usually has 197s. Are they still using them/using them again? I took photos but they're still trapped in my camera for now.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 21:35 ==

On further investigation it seems to have been 5Q36 1335 Crewe T.M.D. (E) to Allerton Depot. Anyone any idea what's happening with it?

Edit, now this is merged I have my answers!

 

[507016]

5Q36 Now Allocated Again Tomorrow at 16.00, looks like theyre trying again

 

[Wyrleybart]

I've never seen a TfW 769 and I thought they'd all been withdrawn. The thread about them has been closed for replies for 2 years, but today I saw 769421 at Crewe in one of the North end bay platforms that usually has 197s. Are they still using them/using them again? I took photos but they're still trapped in my camera for now.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 21:35 ==

On further investigation it seems to have been 5Q36 1335 Crewe T.M.D. (E) to Allerton Depot. Anyone any idea what's happening with it?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 21:36 ==


Edit, now this is merged I have my answers!

Can anyone summarise the ex TfW ones please? AIUI TfW received and operated one fewer than was planned as there seems to have been an issue with one of the driving cars. Would I be talking gibberish when I think a class 319 driving car was sent to Canton as a replacement for a 769 car, but obviously never entered traffic ? (T I A)

Then TfW handed them all back
Then IIRC two were to be sent to Crewe IETD to have pantographs fitted, then into service with Northern as cover for their units receiving big exams.

Grateful for clarification / correction

 

[Bob Price]

5Q42 move today from Leicester to Cewe Electric Depot, 37800 hauling 769535. That is not a TfW one. Is it a Northern one?

 

[Class319&373]

5Q42 move today from Leicester to Cewe Electric Depot, 37800 hauling 769535. That is not a TfW one. Is it a Northern one?

I believe that's one of the ex-GWR 769s (formerly 769935/319435) now a freighter (hence the /5 renumbering).

 

[Nym]

5Q42 move today from Leicester to Cewe Electric Depot, 37800 hauling 769535. That is not a TfW one. Is it a Northern one?

Chances are that means it’s broke already…

 

[Bob Price]

769421 just ran under its own power with a pantagraph from Crewe IED to Crewe station and has just headed back. It was on a 5Q code. Potentially warming up for the 5Q36 run to make sure it's working OK.

37800 has also just hauled 769535, as someone said an ex GWR unit, down to the IED at Crewe.

It's all go on these webcams!

 

[Geeves]

Thanks Alan!

She's finally made it to Allerton. 421 at rest in it's new home.

 

[GhostManDN91]

Any idea if 769421 will be repainted or have Northern branding fitted?