Position light signal + "Feather"

[martin2345uk]

I've asked around on this and have got conflicting answers so I am trying here!

On the routes I sign, signals with associated position light have miniature theatre box type indicators for those position lights.

Can you get, and is it common to get, a junction indicator ('feather') with a red main aspect and the position light being off?

What about if there is a miniature theatre box above the PL - could you still get the PL coming off with the feather instead?

 

[MarkyT]

I've asked around on this and have got conflicting answers so I am trying here!

On the routes I sign, signals with associated position light have miniature theatre box type indicators for those position lights.

Can you get, and is it common to get, a junction indicator ('feather') with a red main aspect and the position light being off?

What about if there is a miniature theatre box above the PL - could you still get the PL coming off with the feather instead?

Some older schemes from the 1960s & 70s continue to display position lights with different kinds of route and junction indicators, but since the 80s (I think) standards have demanded that the only type of route indicator that can be displayed with a PL is the miniature type or 'stencil' and it must be different to the route indication displayed for any main/warning class route from the same signal to the same destination.

As areas get modernised and resignalled, any remaining standard (large type or 'theatre') route and junction indications with PLs should be eliminated.

 

[martin2345uk]

Thanks, very helpful and explains a lot!

 

[CAF397]

Yes, there's a signal at Ardwick Jn that puts you onto the Up & Down goods with a No 4 junction indicator. This is either main aspect or with position lights.

 

[sw1ller]

Llandudno junction also does this. Arriving from Conway, when attaching to another unit in P1, LJ70 will show a red, and release to a red with position lights and a no1 route indicator (feather).

 

[jfollows]

Yes, there's a signal at Ardwick Jn that puts you onto the Up & Down goods with a No 4 junction indicator. This is either main aspect or with position lights.

Do you mean MP302 here, position 1 though?

 

[CAF397]

No

MP316. Goes to same Up & Dn Goods though as 302.

 

[jfollows]

No

MP316. Goes to same Up & Dn Goods though as 302.

Thank you, I should have looked a bit further, here's "my" diagram also. So basically position 4 to the Up & Down Goods, no feather means Up East through 2312 crossover.

 

[Tomnick]

No

MP316. Goes to same Up & Dn Goods though as 302.

Just for completeness - can you get a position light plus position 1 JI at MP302?

 

[Annetts key]

Some older schemes from the 1960s & 70s continue to display position lights with different kinds of route and junction indicators, but since the 80s (I think) standards have demanded that the only type of route indicator that can be displayed with a PL is the miniature type or 'stencil' and it must be different to the route indication displayed for any main/warning class route from the same signal to the same destination.

As areas get modernised and resignalled, any remaining standard (large type or 'theatre') route and junction indications with PLs should be eliminated.

Yes, on older installations it is perfectly valid to have a red main aspect, a JI (feather) or theatre RI with a PL proceed aspect.

As MarkyT says, on modern installations, a separate alpha-numerical route indication is given.

The term Theatre Indicator has been replaced with Standard Alpha-numerical Route Indicator (SARI). And the smaller Stencil Indicators are now known as Miniature Alpha-numerical Route Indicators (MARI). There can be more than one MARI if RA or CD indications are needed.

I’m not sure about when the requirements changed. I’ll have to go look that up. But I think it was a lot later than the 1980s, as a 1992 SSI resignalling scheme on the Western does still have PL proceed aspects with JI used for the route information.

 

[alxndr]

I’m not sure about when the requirements changed. I’ll have to go look that up. But I think it was a lot later than the 1980s, as a 1992 SSI resignalling scheme on the Western does still have PL proceed aspects with JI used for the route information.

I think it's possible for SW1210 in Swindon to show a red main aspect, feather, and PL off, for trains routed into plat 1 or plat 2. That was circa 2017.