Possible prohibited restriction codes

[30907]

Restrictions UV (Southampton) also references the 1900 ex PAD.
BTW the times ex Reading are irrelevant as none of the barred trains serve Basingstoke
You might, however, want to check the timetable: there is no 1900 train now - but when there was, I agree a SVR to Portsmouth etc should have been valid via Reading on it.

 

[kieron]

I would be very surprised if either your second or third examples were in breach, as I cannot think there are permitted routes from PAD either via Three Bridges or to Dover.
So it would be helpful to quote an example where the Paddington restriction is applied to a regulated Offpeak ticket. Only your first seems plausible.

For a straightforward example, how about Didcot-London? There is a £31.40 off peak return with a restriction code of P7, and the SVR appears on the regulated fare list which was provided following a FOI request a few years ago.

The P7 restriction text states that the return leg isn't valid on the 19:02 from London Paddington (or, at least, that it wouldn't be if it terminated at Bristol Temple Meads). The version of the easement the web sites uses is more restrictive than the one it shows to customers, so it isn't shown as being valid on the 19:20, 19:26 or 19:28 trains either.

I don't know whether or not the TOC is allowed to bar any of these trains, but I am sure the benefits would be felt outside the legal profession if they sorted this lot out.

 

[30907]

For a straightforward example, how about Didcot-London? There is a £31.40 off peak return with a restriction code of P7, and the SVR appears on the regulated fare list which was provided following a FOI request a few years ago.

The P7 restriction text states that the return leg isn't valid on the 19:02 from London Paddington (or, at least, that it wouldn't be if it terminated at Bristol Temple Meads). The version of the easement the web sites uses is more restrictive than the one it shows to customers, so it isn't shown as being valid on the 19:20, 19:26 or 19:28 trains either.

I don't know whether or not the TOC is allowed to bar any of these trains, but I am sure the benefits would be felt outside the legal profession if they sorted this lot out.

That's a much better example to use (unless I've missed something!) as it relates to a journey Jan (formerly John or Jane ) Doe might actually make, and therefore is more clearly in the public interest to resolve.

The question would be whether there is any provision for a TOC to bar individual trains for walk-up tickets, and this might have to be argued with reference to the pre-privatisation restrictions (which I do not have) - ie if in 1994 IC sector trains were barred, can they still be barred.

 

[Paul Kelly]

I don't think the fares in the OP are regulated - as they are in the former NSE area it would be the Anytime Day Return that is regulated for those flows.

how about Didcot-London? There is a £31.40 off peak return with a restriction code of P7, and the SVR appears on the regulated fare list which was provided following a FOI request a few years ago.

I am very curious about this though as it doesn't seem right. Do you have a link to that document? I have only a vague recollection of seeing it before.

 

[alistairlees]

I don't think the fares in the OP are regulated - as they are in the former NSE area it would be the Anytime Day Return that is regulated for those flows.

I am very curious about this though as it doesn't seem right. Do you have a link to that document? I have only a vague recollection of seeing it before.

I think it's this: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/regulated_flows?unfold=1

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Nov 2021 ==

It appears these are the regulated fares:

3030 DIDCOT PARKWAY 1072 LONDON BR 0 0 2MTQ
3030 DIDCOT PARKWAY 1072 LONDON BR 0 1 2MQA
3030 DIDCOT PARKWAY 1072 LONDON BR 0 1 2MTA
3030 DIDCOT PARKWAY 1072 LONDON BR 0 1 2MTQ
3030 DIDCOT PARKWAY 1072 LONDON BR 0 0 2BFP
3030 DIDCOT PARKWAY 1072 LONDON BR 0 1 2BFP

2MTQ is a quarterly season
2MQA is a weekly season
2MTA is a monthly season
2BFP is an Off-Peak Return

The first 0 is the route code (00000)
The second 0 (or 1) is Adult (0) or child (1). It seems an odd mix of season things. Maybe there is more data in another file.

 

[Paul Kelly]

Yes, you and kieron are right - it really does seem to show that the SVR fare from Didcot is regulated. So the situation is more complex than I thought.

The SVR from Reading to London Terminals has an earlier end to the evening peak than the equivalent day return fare (FP valid from 19:00 cf. O9 valid from 19:18) whereas from Didcot they both have the same restriction (P7 valid from 19:29) so it looks like there is a case to answer here. Apologies for my earlier cynicism, although I agree with what others have said that restrictions on departing from Paddington are irrelevant if the fare isn't valid from Paddington anyway.

 

[jkdd77]

Based on this thread, I complained to the DfT about the post 19:00 evening peak restriction imposed by GWR on regulated SVRs between Didcot/ Bedywn and London.

The DfT have confirmed that these are regulated flows, and instructed GWR to amend their evening peak restrictions.

 

[alistairlees]

Based on this thread, I complained to the DfT about the post 19:00 evening peak restriction imposed by GWR on regulated SVRs between Didcot/ Bedywn and London.

The DfT have confirmed that these are regulated flows, and instructed GWR to amend their evening peak restrictions.

Interesting. Let's see when it appears in the data!

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Based on this thread, I complained to the DfT about the post 19:00 evening peak restriction imposed by GWR on regulated SVRs between Didcot/ Bedywn and London.

The DfT have confirmed that these are regulated flows, and instructed GWR to amend their evening peak restrictions.

Excellent. I have had similar outcomes to my enquiries with surprisingly little resistance to them being amended as soon as possible. I believe something is happening in January 2022.

Where the restrictions did not affect any actual journeys opportunities (for now), the DfT is instructing the non compliant operators to reword or change the restriction code so that it is simpler and clearer to the customer.

An extract from one of several email responses:

The fare on route ‘Any Permitted’ is regulated. While most passengers will
travel from Waterloo to undertake the journey to Portsmouth (with no evening
restriction) the fare is valid from Paddington should a passenger wish to travel
via Reading, Basingstoke and Hedge End. We have therefore, raised the
wording of restriction ‘US’ with SWR and they have taken matters forward to
ensure that it is altered to be in line with regulation. This was an unintended
error and the many timetable changes that taken place in recent times has
made some fare setting work more complicated.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Dec 2021 ==

I don't know if anybody has the technical expertise on this forum, but it may well be useful to search for all the "SVR" (which I know now is Off Peak Return) fares that have any electronic time restriction applied at any time between 19:00 and 23:59, and then filter the list depending on what is regulated or not.

I believe that whether it's a 1 minute breach or a 1 hour one, the matter needs resolving, even just on principal. I am sure a TOC would charge you more for that 1 minute if they could get away with it!