Potential Grand Union stock?

[HamworthyGoods]

would be nice to see HST's back in paddington,

I doubt many people would join you in welcoming their return. Paddington is a much quieter and cleaner station now they and the turbos have all but gone.

 

[Bob Price]

Couple of points. GU had no interest in services west of Cardiff, their original plans were to use 91's and Mk4's from Cardiff to Paddington. Then the Welsh Government got involved and they supported the bid as far as Llanelli. Hence moving to bi modes.

Secondly I was under the impression that with the modifications to Paddington following the Elizabeth line resignalling, HSTs no longer have route availability.

Thirdly stock needs to be 125 enabled to avoid clogging up the main lines. So that rules out the 175's. Unless they can get 800's quickly then it's 180's short term if they can get them. Can the 221's do 125 mph?

 

[zwk500]

Can the 221's do 125 mph?

Yes, XC ones run at 125mph without tilt on the ECML.

 

[The Planner]

Yes, XC ones run at 125mph without tilt on the ECML.

They can only run at 125 between Reading and Didcot, they are restricted to 100mph elsewhere between Paddington and Patchway, so that would have to be resolved.

 

[zwk500]

They can only run at 125 between Reading and Didcot, they are restricted to 100mph elsewhere between Paddington and Patchway, so that would have to be resolved.

Fair enough, although that sounds more like a paperwork thing than anything else, as XC wouldn't normally run Paddington to Reading or Didcot to Westerliegh.

 

[anthony263]

Didn't virgin get told they couldn't run the class 220/221's at 125mph between Reading and London Paddington due to lack of ATP ?

 

[devon_belle]

however, if they reduce prices on this route, I am not going to complain

By all means!

 

[RobShipway]

They can only run at 125 between Reading and Didcot, they are restricted to 100mph elsewhere between Paddington and Patchway, so that would have to be resolved.

What points between London Paddington to Reading can the class 80x run at 125mph?

 

[devon_belle]

I certainly hope they don't get HSTs. Even if they were refurbished with a better interior they are far too sluggish and dated compared to the GWR IET service. 180s or a member of the voyager family would be more suitable in my opinion. Of course, they'll get what they get...

 

[The Planner]

What points between London Paddington to Reading can the class 80x run at 125mph?

Its 100mph on the mains from Ladbroke Grove/Kensal Green at the 2 mile point, 125mph from Acton Yard at 4½ miles to Kennet Bridge at 34½ miles then you slow down for Reading at 36 miles.. Its going to be around 3 minutes difference between 100 and 125 mph.

 

[RobShipway]

Its 100mph on the mains from Ladbroke Grove/Kensal Green at the 2 mile point, 125mph from Acton Yard at 4½ miles to Kennet Bridge at 34½ miles then you slow down for Reading at 36 miles.. Its going to be around 3 minutes difference between 100 and 125 mph.

Okay, so like class 387's to Reading trains, they have have to be kept to the slow lines which has 100mph max speed. However, I have seen at Burnham before now that class 387 units doing London Paddington - Cardiff services on the fast lines. Admittedly the class 387 units at Burnham are possibly doing 110mph? So could you not have the Voyagers/class 222 units doing 110mph prior Reading?

 

[mangyiscute]

Okay, so like class 387's to Reading trains, they have have to be kept to the slow lines which has 100mph max speed. However, I have seen at Burnham before now that class 387 units doing London Paddington - Cardiff services on the fast lines. Admittedly the class 387 units at Burnham are possibly doing 110mph? So could you not have the Voyagers/class 222 units doing 110mph prior Reading?

The 387s also operate an hourly London to Newbury service which is non stop Reading to London, which runs fully on the mains and I think they run at 110mph - these are mostly times at 25/26 minutes for the London to Reading section, so 2/3 minutes slower than the 80x
Also, the Didcot stoppers now run on the mains from Paddington to Dolphin junction, just before Slough, as they run fast to Slough

 

[The Planner]

Okay, so like class 387's to Reading trains, they have have to be kept to the slow lines which has 100mph max speed. However, I have seen at Burnham before now that class 387 units doing London Paddington - Cardiff services on the fast lines. Admittedly the class 387 units at Burnham are possibly doing 110mph? So could you not have the Voyagers/class 222 units doing 110mph prior Reading?

Yes, if as I noted in a previous post, the hoop of them currently not being allowed to go over 100mph is jumped through.

 

[43096]

Secondly I was under the impression that with the modifications to Paddington following the Elizabeth line resignalling, HSTs no longer have route availability.

So how does the NMT get into Paddington then?

 

[RobShipway]

So how does the NMT get into Paddington then?

Not my photos but certainly in the days when the class 332 units where still being used on the Heathrow Express, the NMT did visit London Paddington as per https://www.alamy.com/network-rails...dington-station-in-london-image212197348.html

I have not been able to find any photos that would suggest that the NMT has visited London Paddington since 2019, which I believe is after changes made in preparation for the Elizabeth line?

 

[FlyingPotato]

A weird one from me here

So I read in a news article, Alstom Derby needs orders before HS2 or they face closing.

In theory, could GU order an Alstom train like an agv or new Pendolino (of course to UK specifications) to kill two birds with one stone

 

[aem7ac]

A weird one from me here

So I read in a news article, Alstom Derby needs orders before HS2 or they face closing.

In theory, could GU order an Alstom train like an agv or new Pendolino (of course to UK specifications) to kill two birds with one stone

This might be the key. Especially with “government help” being mentioned by some sources it could mean GU is required by the DfT to take these on and Alstom is required to have one of these out for an ASAP start date for Carmarthen, as that’s the only route with paths approved as of now

 

[swt_passenger]

This might be the key. Especially with “government help” being mentioned by some sources it could mean GU is required by the DfT to take these on and Alstom is required to have one of these out for an ASAP start date for Carmarthen, as that’s the only route with paths approved as of now

I reckon there is no way whatsoever that the DfT will get involved in specifying a particular builder of rolling stock for an OA operator.

 

[greyman42]

A weird one from me here

So I read in a news article, Alstom Derby needs orders before HS2 or they face closing.

In theory, could GU order an Alstom train like an agv or new Pendolino (of course to UK specifications) to kill two birds with one stone

An order from GU would not be big enough to make any difference to Derby.

 

[Energy]

I reckon there is no way whatsoever that the DfT will get involved in specifying a particular builder of rolling stock for an OA operator.

The DfT can't force rolling stock but the government could possibly subsidise Derby. This wouldn't be popular with the government or other manufacturers so I'd expect them to bring forward the HS2 order and reduce the number of units delivered per month to cope with the extra 2 years.

The stock is classic compatible so it can temporarily run WCML or ECML services, though likely slower than the Pendolinos.

 

[zwk500]

Secondly I was under the impression that with the modifications to Paddington following the Elizabeth line resignalling, HSTs no longer have route availability.

Somebody will need to tell the Sectional Appendix people then, because Class 43s are still listed as clear into Paddington on there:

Extract of Table D4B showing route clearances for locos of Cl.43-59 between Paddington and Reading. (that page last updated 19/03/2022 but the PDF as a whole from September 2023, available on the NR website).

 

[The Planner]

Unless someone Network Changes them out, you cannot remove them from the sectional appendix anyway.

 

[anthony263]

Not my photos but certainly in the days when the class 332 units where still being used on the Heathrow Express, the NMT did visit London Paddington as per https://www.alamy.com/network-rails...dington-station-in-london-image212197348.html

I have not been able to find any photos that would suggest that the NMT has visited London Paddington since 2019, which I believe is after changes made in preparation for the Elizabeth line?

Its been to Heathrow Airport too

 

[43096]

Not my photos but certainly in the days when the class 332 units where still being used on the Heathrow Express, the NMT did visit London Paddington as per https://www.alamy.com/network-rails...dington-station-in-london-image212197348.html

I have not been able to find any photos that would suggest that the NMT has visited London Paddington since 2019, which I believe is after changes made in preparation for the Elizabeth line?

Try harder then!

If you want to go and see an HST at Paddington, then around 0420 tomorrow you should be in luck, as 43274/277 and the NMT are working in on this: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:H10051/2023-09-14/detailed

Hopefully this should put to bed this totally unsubstantiated nonsense.

 

[Bob Price]

To be honest it was something that came up in a thread about Castle units and running them into Paddington. Happy to stand corrected.

 

[43102EMR]

Not my photos but certainly in the days when the class 332 units where still being used on the Heathrow Express, the NMT did visit London Paddington as per https://www.alamy.com/network-rails...dington-station-in-london-image212197348.html

I have not been able to find any photos that would suggest that the NMT has visited London Paddington since 2019, which I believe is after changes made in preparation for the Elizabeth line?

November 2021, the NMT at Paddington and 43290 looking in a much better condition than now…

 

[RobShipway]

View attachment 142875View attachment 142876

November 2021, the NMT at Paddington and 43290 looking in a much better condition than now…

Thanks @43102EMR, I didn't think that the NMT would be blocked from visiting Paddington.

Somebody will need to tell the Sectional Appendix people then, because Class 43s are still listed as clear into Paddington on there:
View attachment 142825
Extract of Table D4B showing route clearances for locos of Cl.43-59 between Paddington and Reading. (that page last updated 19/03/2022 but the PDF as a whole from September 2023, available on the NR website).

I am presuming that platforms 13 and 14 are the Underground platforms at Paddington?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

To be honest it was something that came up in a thread about Castle units and running them into Paddington. Happy to stand corrected.

That is quite correct that the Castle sets are not cleared into Paddington any more for passenger use.

As everyone points out yes HSTs remain route cleared (as per sectional appendix etc) but the missing link is the PTI (platform train interface) risk assessment hasn’t been done at Paddington for the sliding door sets and would need to be done as they have a different classification to the old slam door sets. It’s unlikely to be difficult to do but to date there’s been no reason to do it.

 

[mangyiscute]

I am presuming that platforms 13 and 14 are the Underground platforms at Paddington?

Currently the underground platforms are 15 & 16, platform 14 is a shortened platform at the end of the station with the tube, and platform 13 doesn't exist - I imagine in the past, those may have been the underground platforms.

 

[zwk500]

Thanks @43102EMR, I didn't think that the NMT would be blocked from visiting Paddington.

I am presuming that platforms 13 and 14 are the Underground platforms at Paddington?

Currently the underground platforms are 15 & 16, platform 14 is a shortened platform at the end of the station with the tube, and platform 13 doesn't exist - I imagine in the past, those may have been the underground platforms.

I thought the Crossrail platforms are A & B, while the London Underground platforms are numbered separately. AFAIK the former 13 and 14 have only been terminal platforms in the later extension. IIRC 14 is under a big bridge/approach road though.