Potential Journey to Man Pic

[Blindtraveler]

Hello all.

Making a work related trip to Manchester next week. The north south mileage will be by coach and a colleague who is meeting me there will be with me much of the time. The fly in the ointment is the journey from an unstaffed shack to the city centre which I may or may not have to make on my 2nd day. Due to this uncertainty I don’t really want to buy a ticket I won’t use but due to my visual impairment I am unable to use the TVM to buy on the day.

I am asking as the number of threads about the truly shocking working practices of G4s staff in that area is enough to keep me awake at night.

Normally I would be using my Disabled railcard which would allow purchase on train or at the worst hopefully allow the RPIs at Man to let me go to the booking office.

Unfortunately my Railcard renewal which was ordered 2 weeks ago has got lost in the mail and has had to be reissued but wont be there on time.

Thoughts from the experts?

 

[telstarbox]

Hi BT - what day and time would you potentially arrive into MAN? (PM me if easier)

 

[Chapeltom]

Hello all.

Making a work related trip to Manchester next week. The north south milage will be by coach and a coleeg who is meeting me there will be with me much of the time. The fly in the ointment is the journey from an unstaffed shack to the city centre which I may or may not have to make on my 2nd day. Due to this uncertainty I dont really want to buy a ticket I woant use but due to my visual impairment I am unable to use the TVM to buy on the day.

I am asking as the number of threads about the truly shocking working practices of G4s staff in that area is enough to keep me awake at night.
Normally I would be using my Disabled railcard which would allow purchase on train or at the worst
hopefully
allow the RPIs at Man to let me go to the booking office.
Unfortunately my railcard renewal which was ordered 2 weeks ago has got lost in the mail and has had to be reissued but woant be there on time. Thoughts from the experts?

There have been a lot of horror stories from the G4S staff at Manchester Picc, but don't be too put off by it. I've found a number of them to be absolutely fine. My card wouldn't once work on the train and amazingly at Platform 13/14 they allowed me to pop to the cash machine, pay my fare and back to Platform 14 for my connecting train . They have definitely got better.

 

[Harlesden]

I am wondering about these "horror stories"
Surely if they were genuine and the "victims" complained, then the unsatisfactory performance of the contractor would be recognized and the contract given to another company.
Perhaps many of those claiming mistreatment are simply people who think they are somehow above complying with the basic and common sense requirement to be in possession of a ticket and feel insulted/victimised when challenged.
In the case of the OP, surely the showing of a Disabled Railcard as evidence of inability to use a TVM will be acceptable to anyone assigned to check travel documents

 

[Blindtraveler]

I am wondering about these "horror stories"
Surely if they were genuine and the "victims" complained, then the unsatisfactory performance of the contractor would be recognized and the contract given to another company.
Perhaps many of those claiming mistreatment are simply people who think they are somehow above complying with the basic and common sense requirement to be in possession of a ticket and feel insulted/victimised when challenged.
In the case of the OP, surely the showing of a Disabled Railcard as evidence of inability to use a TVM will be acceptable to anyone assigned to check travel documents

It would have to be an expired one as my renewal has been delayed by Royal mail and woant reach me befre I leav on Tuesday.
The journey in question would be the morning peek of next Wednesday. I have had issues at Man before due to reuinue staff challenging a split ticket and only thanks to a passing guard did I get away with that entirely legal journey. The fact I carry a big white stick doesnt stop these largely foreign workers from treating me as a potential criminal iether!

 

[pemma]

Surely if they were genuine and the "victims" complained, then the unsatisfactory performance of the contractor would be recognized and the contract given to another company.

Don't forget that the Northern employed RPIs at Liverpool Lime St, Manchester Oxford Rd, Leeds and Blackpool North aren't immune to mistakes especially when ticket barriers fail to allow valid tickets to be accepted.

I've personally experienced poor customer relations at Southport managed by Merseyrail. I had a valid ticket which wasn't compatible with the barriers and when I approached the manual one I was shouted at three times by a RPI for not using one of the automated barriers who insisted only people with suitcases are allowed to use the manual one.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Don't forget that the Northern employed RPIs at Liverpool Lime St, Manchester Oxford Rd, Leeds and Blackpool North aren't immune to mistakes especially when ticket barriers fail to allow valid tickets to be accepted.

I've personally experienced poor customer relations at Southport managed by Merseyrail. I had a valid ticket which wasn't compatible with the barriers and when I approached the manual one I was shouted at three times by a RPI for not using one of the automated barriers who insisted only people with suitcases are allowed to use the manual one.

the guys and girls at Blackpool, a station I use around once or twice a year are great and the acception to the rule!

 

[gordonthemoron]

The Merseyrail gateline staff at Moorfields and Central are fine

 

[hairyhandedfool]

G4S do seem to be getting better, but no-one is perfect (except me of course....).

I am wondering about these "horror stories"
Surely if they were genuine and the "victims" complained, then the unsatisfactory performance of the contractor would be recognized and the contract given to another company.....

Don't think it works like that.

....Perhaps many of those claiming mistreatment are simply people who think they are somehow above complying with the basic and common sense requirement to be in possession of a ticket and feel insulted/victimised when challenged.....

It's not just passengers, Northern staff with staff ID cards have been prevented from getting to trains, that they were due to work, by G4S at Piccadilly.

....
In the case of the OP, surely the showing of a Disabled Railcard as evidence of inability to use a TVM will be acceptable to anyone assigned to check travel documents

It might show that some discretion is needed, though he wouldn't be entitled to the Railcard discount as it is expired.

 

[34D]

It's not just passengers, Northern staff with staff ID cards have been prevented from getting to trains, that they were due to work, by G4S at Piccadilly.

Are you joking?

 

[High Dyke]

The Merseyrail gateline staff at Moorfields and Central are fine

I concur with that. Exited Liverpool Central the other week, to walk to Lime Street and got the 'seek assistance' msg - using a Lancs Day Ranger at the time. Gateline staff gave it a cursory glance, said "that's fine" and let me out of the manual gate without any problems.

 

[pemma]

I concur with that. Exited Liverpool Central the other week, to walk to Lime Street and got the 'seek assistance' msg - using a Lancs Day Ranger at the time. Gateline staff gave it a cursory glance, said "that's fine" and let me out of the manual gate without any problems.

I've had a similar experience at James St with a Merseytravel Saveaway. It was one rogue person at Southport but proves that they don't have to be G4S employees to not be a good RPI.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Are you joking?

Apparently when contracted by FNW for revenue protection some ATN crews had difficulty getting to and from TPE services they were booked to work with ATN passes because G4S (or whatever they were called back then) didn't think Arriva operated any trains as they didn't know about Arriva purchasing MTL.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Are you joking?

Not even close to joking.

 

[yorkie]

I am wondering about these "horror stories"
Surely if they were genuine and the "victims" complained, then the unsatisfactory performance of the contractor would be recognized and the contract given to another company.

Not likely. G4S are (presumably) cheap and it would incur costs to change supplier.

Northern should really bring these jobs in-house, but they seem reluctant to.

Perhaps many of those claiming mistreatment are simply people who think they are somehow above complying with the basic and common sense requirement to be in possession of a ticket and feel insulted/victimised when challenged.

There are many complaints about G4S, but as stated earlier some of them can be very good.

Complaints have come from established forum members, including some members of rail staff who work for companies like Northern and TPE.

G4S can even delay trains, in one particular case it was reported that due to the driver being prevented from boarding his own train by G4S.

But my message to blindtraveler is not to worry to much. If G4S mistreat you, then there are some people on this forum who will do their best to make it be G4S who are the ones who need to be worried...

The G4S staff are very variable, some are actually very good and can even issue complex excess fares efficiently without quibble! (in contrast to some ticket offices)

 

[Blindtraveler]

Not likely. G4S are (presumably) cheap and it would incur costs to change supplier.

Northern should really bring these jobs in-house, but they seem reluctant to.

There are many complaints about G4S, but as stated earlier some of them can be very good.

Complaints have come from established forum members, including some members of rail staff who work for companies like Northern and TPE.

G4S can even delay trains, in one particular case it was reported that due to the driver being prevented from boarding his own train by G4S.

But my message to blindtraveler is not to worry to much. If G4S mistreat you, then there are some people on this forum who will do their best to make it be G4S who are the ones who need to be worried...

The G4S staff are very variable, some are actually very good and can even issue complex excess fares efficiently without quibble! (in contrast to some ticket offices)

well if they are capable of being good I wasnt witness to it today. was unable to buy onboard and and as soon as the G4s RPI found I was ticketless he was treating me like a criminal and totally uninterested in my explainations and when I at first refused to give him my name and details threatened me with the B T P. a white stick clearly counts for nothing round these guys. Long story short I woant be going to Man Pic again.

 

[yorkie]

well if they are capable of being good I wasnt witness to it today. was unable to buy onboard and and as soon as the G4s RPI found I was ticketless he was treating me like a criminal and totally uninterested in my explainations and when I at first refused to give him my name and details threatened me with the B T P. a white stick clearly counts for nothing round these guys. Long story short I woant be going to Man Pic again.

I urge you to write a letter of complaint to Northern. I am more than happy to proof read it for you.

If they do not respond well, then I will pick up the phone myself and insist on speaking to someone like Pete Myers, as well as referring it to Passenger Focus etc.

 

[edwin_m]

Actionable under the Equality Act?

 

[Blindtraveler]

very possibly Edwin. Luckilly in my miss spent youth I was and still am friendly with 3 law students who are now all practising. They will be getting a call tomorrow!

 

[Starmill]

I think G4S are a little better than they were, but I put this down to the fact that, at Piccadilly at least, there are almost always some actual Northern RPIs working with them. This didn't used to be the case...

They are still bad though.

Never had a problem with the Merseyrail gatelines at Central, James Street or South Parkway.

 

[Blindtraveler]

agree Re the Mursyside guys and girls, good people
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Just a wee update, the matter has been resolved thanks to a bit of common sense and good customer service from Northern.
Never had so many calls from a TOC in 1 day before!
Could this thread please now be locked? Dont want to discus further really.

 

[pemma]

well if they are capable of being good I wasnt witness to it today. was unable to buy onboard and and as soon as the G4s RPI found I was ticketless he was treating me like a criminal and totally uninterested in my explainations and when I at first refused to give him my name and details threatened me with the B T P. a white stick clearly counts for nothing round these guys. Long story short I woant be going to Man Pic again.

I think you should tell Northern of your experience (as they employ G4S) and also Network Rail as they are responsible for the management of the station.