Potential sites for a new Northern DMU depot

[northwichcat]

In a thread from a while back someone suggested Buxton and Blackburn were sites which had been examined for a new DMU depot.

To me Buxton would be surprising as if there's an obstruction on one section of the line that would potentially leave a number of DMUs unable to enter service.

Blackburn sounds a more sensible option - two routes to Manchester, close to Clitheroe, on the Colne-Blackpool and York-Blackpool routes.

What other locations would be sensible?

To me one in the Northwich area sounds sensible with the enhancements to Mid-Cheshire services from December 17, the additional Northern service to Chester and access to both Manchester and Liverpool (via Weaver Junction) there's potentially a number of routes which could be served from there even if there's not that many Northern services through Stockport at present.

 

[backontrack]

In a thread from a while back someone suggested Buxton and Blackburn were sites which had been examined for a new DMU depot.

To me Buxton would be surprising as if there's an obstruction on one section of the line that would potentially leave a number of DMUs unable to enter service.

Blackburn sounds a more sensible option - two routes to Manchester, close to Clitheroe, on the Colne-Blackpool and York-Blackpool routes.

What other locations would be sensible?

To me one in the Northwich area sounds sensible with the enhancements to Mid-Cheshire services from December 17, the additional Northern service to Chester and access to both Manchester and Liverpool (via Weaver Junction) there's potentially a number of routes which could be served from there even if there's not that many Northern services through Stockport at present.

Don't forget that there are in all two routes from Buxton to the Hope Valley Line.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

When there was the old, aborted plan for additional DMUs plans were made for new depots but as far as I'm aware these were not planned for heavy maintenance but just stabling, CET emptying and minor repairs and exams. I don't know what plans were made West of the Pennines but Hillhouse near Huddersfield was a possible site on the East.
I'd imagine that for the most part, local services will continue to be mostly separate between Greater Manchester and Yorkshire (Calder Valley and Hope Valley locals excepted) so if sites are needed there'll be at least 2 new depots. On the East, Healey Mills would be an obvious choice, with access to Leeds by a number of routes and of course there's lots of space!

 

[furnessvale]

In a thread from a while back someone suggested Buxton and Blackburn were sites which had been examined for a new DMU depot.

Anywhere outside a major city is good. Cities have always had staffing problems with the potential draw of other employers.

Years ago, Buxton had its own allocation of DMUs which were maintained in tip top condition. Longsight would routinely swap Buxton units for their own clapped out badly maintained sets, which Buxton would bring up to standard only to see them swapped back again.

Accrington and Newton Heath had a similar "arrangement".

 

[Whistler40145]

Also, if a depot is opened at Buxton, not all Classes of unit are currently passed on the line. If you're talking of two routes from Buxton, obviously one is via Hazel Grove to Stockport, the other being the freight only line via Peak Forest to Chinley, this is a single track line and is probably at capacity with stone traffic and trains coming off the Stockport line would require to shunt into Buxton station and again in Buxton XYZ sidings, unless the track layout has changed.

 

[55z]

The plan was for stabling sidings/cleaning to be established at Blackburn and Wigan Wallgate Jn as Blackpool (currently cleaning/stabling sidings) will become all EMU (except the York trains).

 

[Ploughman]

Wasn't there a plan about 5 years back for providing added stabling across the North?
What happened with that?

I had heard of one site being near Greetland jcn

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Quite some years ago now, I remember Guide Bridge being mentioned.

 

[Whistler40145]

There's plenty of space for a depot at Guide Bridge, especially where the sidings are located adjacent to the Stalybridge line.

 

[driver_m]

Not much point to Northwich when there's already a depot and stabling a bit further up at Wigan Wallgate with much more scope for accessing the WCML and major centres without adding to the moves which would be need to get across Hartford or Stockport. If the Springs Branxh rumours come true then you've an accessible location which is easy to get the staff to easily and only needs an existing depot to grow a bit. Not the beaurocracy of an extra depot for a start and the additional moves on a critical junction that's already very busy (Weaver)

 

[Whistler40145]

Springs Branch would absolutely fit the bill, and if necessary can be wired up.

 

[Class 170101]

To me Buxton would be surprising as if there's an obstruction on one section of the line that would potentially leave a number of DMUs unable to enter service.

What are the chances of it going belly up though?

Clacton has had a maintenance depot on and off for many years yet has only one exit?

Any DMU depot built at Buxton would probably only see a small allocation of units due to its location relative to other depots. Clacton is similar.

 

[WCMLaddict]

Springs Branch would absolutely fit the bill, and if necessary can be wired up.

We have a winner here!

 

[driver_m]

You've got the largely unused tracks on the goods outside it. Two triangles for turning trains within easy reach and its easy to string wires up to make it mixed use. What's not to like?

 

[Elecman]

You've got the largely unused tracks on the goods outside it. Two triangles for turning trains within easy reach and its easy to string wires up to make it mixed use. What's not to like?

It belongs to DB Schenker so why would they want to release it?

 

[Class 170101]

It belongs to DB Schenker so why would they want to release it?

If they get paid enough?

 

[306024]

Anywhere outside a major city is good. Cities have always had staffing problems with the potential draw of other employers.

Given peak demand is into major cities in the morning and out again in the evening, putting a maintenance depot at the city end makes little sense anyway. You get longer maintenance time by having your depot out in the sticks.

It belongs to DB Schenker so why would they want to release it?

They gave up their site in Temple Mills to make way for Orient Way sidings. Just need to wave the cheque book.

 

[furnessvale]

Given peak demand is into major cities in the morning and out again in the evening, putting a maintenance depot at the city end makes little sense anyway. You get longer maintenance time by having your depot out in the sticks.

Arguing against my own post, one advantage of a city location is that the trains from several branches can be maintained at one hub. I still prefer country locations though, even if it means several smaller depots, for the better quality of staff you get.

 

[Bevan Price]

The first question to ask is - how large will the depot be ? It is a lot easier to find space for a single road shed than one with 3 or more roads.

Then you ask where is there unused, or under-used & railway-owned space to contain a depot of that size. And then you might ask is there space at existing depots to extend them ?

So - for example - would the Newton Heath site be able to contain another depot ?
Or could Warrington be used if DBS reduce their activities there ?

Springs Branch & Healey Mills have already been mentioned - but would somewhere like Castleton be feasible, or could they use the Stockport carriage sidings next to the station ? Or Leeds Holbeck if they want a site in Yorkshire ? All guesswork at present......

 

[Whistler40145]

Hmm, get the juggling balls out and see what happens!

 

[Class 170101]

The depot strategy depends on where it is.

Operators with depots around the city could maintain between the peaks. Those where their main depot is out in the country should favour maintenance at evenings / nights and at weekends.

 

[popsider]

If they get paid enough?

Network Rail have already paid DB Shenker so part of Springs Branch can be used by Northern.The depot is going to have a wash road and an area too empty the toilets on the trains.Should be open sometime late next year.

 

[RichmondCommu]

If you're talking of two routes from Buxton, obviously one is via Hazel Grove to Stockport, the other being the freight only line via Peak Forest to Chinley, this is a single track line and is probably at capacity with stone traffic and trains coming off the Stockport line would require to shunt into Buxton station and again in Buxton XYZ sidings, unless the track layout has changed.

The track layout hasn't changed, hence the need for trains from Dowlow having to run round in the sidings at Buxton. I'm curious to know how big Buxton's allocation of DMU's was, especially given the number of freight loco's that used to be stabled there at weekends. I seem to remember Buxton painting the cab roofs white but then again my memory might be playing tricks!

Incidentally I've a feeling that someone on this forum reported reading that the disused TMD at Buxton had suffered fire damage. However I do remember Ash Bridge saying that he'd taken the train to Buxton and that he couldn't see any obvious damage but I do wonder what the overall condition of the building is. I read in Railway Magazine that when the new owners took over Crewe Diesel the roof was in a terrible state with bird droppings everywhere.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Quite some years ago now, I remember Guide Bridge being mentioned.

Was that where the class 76's were stabled once they had come off the Woodhead route?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Springs Branch would absolutely fit the bill, and if necessary can be wired up.

There was an article on here recently that mentioned vegetation clearance at Springs Branch so maybe there is something in that.

Apologies for going slightly off topic here but the newly refurbished depot at Allerton looks impressive and the thread on this forum seemed to link the two in terms of additional capacity for the class 319's.

 

[bluenoxid]

What about Healey Mills?

 

[RichmondCommu]

What about Healey Mills?

Already been mentioned further up the thread

I do wonder whether Leeds Neville Hill might have additional capacity once the HST's leave.

 

[Whistler40145]

Neville Hill would be ready for use once the HSTs have left, but would require wiring, then Healey Mills would require a new depot to be built.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Neville Hill would be ready for use once the HSTs have left, but would require wiring, then Healey Mills would require a new depot to be built.

I might be being really stupid here (it wouldn't be the first time ) but doesn't Neville Hill already service the EMU's that run up the Aire Valley / over to Doncaster?

 

[Whistler40145]

You're not being stupid, of course it's wired, otherwise the 91+Mk 4 sets wouldn't get serviced. Oh what a dimwit I am!

 

[RichmondCommu]

You're not being stupid, of course it's wired, otherwise the 91+Mk 4 sets wouldn't get serviced. Oh what a dimwit I am!

It's a pity that my wife and I couldn't attend the walk in the Peak District in the summer as she would have gleefully told you how stupid I am at times!

 

[Whistler40145]

In my case, I'll call it a Senior Moment!