Potential up to 2,000 job losses at Alstom Derby

[Blindtraveler]

375 would make a lot of sense, but please God do not replace the seats with ironing boards that's not going to do their marginal constituencies any favors at all

 

[gabrielhj07]

I have heard rumour (so trying to see if it is likely, or just pointless talk) that Derby has been awarded a mid life refurb contract for 377 (and/or 375). Seems it is all related to bringing back the 379s and moving trains to South Eastern.

I could see some logic if they don't want it to close down before HS2 contract and potential Northern, GWR, South Eastern contracts later in 2020s. Possibly a giant political fudge, especially with marginal constituencies in Kent

Aren’t the 377s already being refurbished?

 

[Energy]

Aren’t the 377s already being refurbished?

Yes, they are going through Aurora mods and are being done at Selhurst depot. If 375s go through similar works it would be elsewhere, like Derby.

 

[JonathanH]

If 375s go through similar works it would be elsewhere, like Derby.

The 375s are already getting the power socket upgrade consistent with the 377s. A large part of the fleet has been so treated.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I've not had one in a very long time that doesn't have sockets

 

[Snow1964]

The Times Industrial Editor Robert Lea says there are now “last-ditch” talks between ministers and the French firm Alstom, which could close the historic Derby rail manufacturing site and move production to Poland or India due to uncertainty over new orders for trains. Talks have run for nearly a year.

(behind a paywall so can't link it, but presumably in printed edition)

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Maybe Derby could refurbish SouthEastern's 376's.... (?) These seem to have been forgotten and still carry much of their original livery

 

[Trainman40083]

Would they still need the extra 345s if HS2 goes to Euston anyway?

 

[Samzino]

Would they still need the extra 345s if HS2 goes to Euston anyway?

I believe so as OOC still would exist and transfer a ton of passenger flow to the lizzy

 

[gabrielhj07]

which could close the historic Derby rail manufacturing site and move production to Poland or India due to uncertainty over new orders for trains.

Production of what?

 

[Snow1964]

Production of what?

Alstom has 115 double deck TGVs to build, 103 Paris Metro trains, 20 C30 movia for Sweden, extra sections for Le Mans trams, 10 ICNG (intercity new generation) for Netherlands, monorail trains for Bangkok MRT pink line, 117 trains for Portugal, Interregional trains for DB Germany......



This is a more readable article, on the crisis talks, looks like big question is which factory gets the new Adessia platform trains

Crisis talks to save historic Derby rail plant from closure

Ministers engage in urgent discussions with Alstom to avert closure of Derby train manufacturing works, amid threats to move production abroad. Thousands of jobs hang in the balance

bmmagazine.co.uk

 

[gabrielhj07]

Alstom has 115 double deck TGVs to build, 103 Paris Metro trains, 20 C30 movia for Sweden, extra sections for Le Mans trams, 10 ICNG (intercity new generation) for Netherlands, monorail trains for Bangkok MRT pink line, 117 trains for Portugal, Interregional trains for DB Germany......



This is a more readable article, on the crisis talks, looks like big question is which factory gets the new Adessia platform trains

Crisis talks to save historic Derby rail plant from closure

Ministers engage in urgent discussions with Alstom to avert closure of Derby train manufacturing works, amid threats to move production abroad. Thousands of jobs hang in the balance

bmmagazine.co.uk

Cheers

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Alstom has 115 double deck TGVs to build, 103 Paris Metro trains, 20 C30 movia for Sweden, extra sections for Le Mans trams, 10 ICNG (intercity new generation) for Netherlands, monorail trains for Bangkok MRT pink line, 117 trains for Portugal, Interregional trains for DB Germany......
This is a more readable article, on the crisis talks, looks like big question is which factory gets the new Adessia platform trains

There's nothing in there to suggest Derby is in line for continental production - merely that the Aventra platform is ending, with Adessia being the new platform.
The list of TOCs is simply the ones that took Aventra, not a list of potential new orders.
Presumably Derby could share in Alstom's wider construction load, but it wouldn't be for complete trains as now.

 

[Dan G]

The Adessia is described as being the successor to the Aventra. I suspect it's exactly that.

 

[Bornin1980s]

Production of what?

Trains for the UK Market. We import trains, but we don't export them. It is not a level playing field.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

There's nothing in there to suggest Derby is in line for continental production - merely that the Aventra platform is ending, with Alessia being the new platform.

Adessia is an umbrella brand for high floor multiple units, including classes previously branded as X'Trapolis and Aventra.

Take a look at the world map showing all the places where Adessia trains are already running. Even the Class 701s are included.

Adessia commuter trains: The backbone of urban life

Alstom’s Adessia™ commuter transport solutions support urban ecosystems all over the world to grow sustainably, accommodate increasing numbers of commuters and alleviate traffic congestion. Building on its wealth of experience in delivering commuter train solutions, Alstom offers...

www.alstom.com

 

[Mikey C]

The 701s are a train of the future. Their entry into service date is certainly always in the future...

 

[Invincible]

This is a more readable article, on the crisis talks, looks like big question is which factory gets the new Adessia platform trains

Crisis talks to save historic Derby rail plant from closure

Ministers engage in urgent discussions with Alstom to avert closure of Derby train manufacturing works, amid threats to move production abroad. Thousands of jobs hang in the balance

bmmagazine.co.uk

So if the UK Government waits for a couple of years (or more) for issuing new train tenders, Alstrom are saying they can't keep Derby ticking over without help, and will have to close, or massively cut back the Derby plant. When the new tenders do eventually get issued, then the new Adessia trains offered for the UK may be made/assembled in Poland or India, rather than UK.

 

[Nym]

This will keep happening until the government realises that our current method of procuring rolling stock is simply broken. We do not need four assembly plants in the UK for our railways.

 

[Invincible]

This will keep happening until the government realises that our current method of procuring rolling stock is simply broken. We do not need four assembly plants in the UK for our railways.

Eventually there might be no train assembly plants left in the UK?.

 

[JonathanH]

Eventually there might be no train assembly plants left in the UK?.

Maybe just not any permanent train assembly plants in the UK? Given how easily the plants at Newton Aycliffe, Goole and Newport (and indeed Widnes) have been built for specific orders, it may be apparent that assembly plants can be created when there is an order that requires some level of UK assembly. Even Derby products aren't built entirely at that site.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The Adessia is described as being the successor to the Aventra. I suspect it's exactly that.

Yes, sorry about the typo.
The global map for Adessia includes quite a few where assembly is local (South Africa and Australia for instance) using some/mainly European parts.
I get the impression that UK orders would be assembled in the UK (presumably Derby).
We know Hitachi can produce the same train (class 802) in three places (Kasado, Pistoia and Newton Aycliffe), evening out production and accelerating delivery.
It would be no surprise if Alstom did the same for Adessia.

 

[dgl]

Thinking about it, if Siemens make a success of Goole then is Alstom's only advantage taken away. Given all the issues Bombardier/Alstom have had would anyone actually want to order more stock from them if there was another company assembling trains in the UK with a much better track record? Even more so if the Aventra is discontinued and you can't make the argument of stock familiarity.

 

[Trainman40083]

Thinking about it, if Siemens make a success of Goole then is Alstom's only advantage taken away. Given all the issues Bombardier/Alstom have had would anyone actually want to order more stock from them if there was another company assembling trains in the UK with a much better track record? Even more so if the Aventra is discontinued and you can't make the argument of stock familiarity.

I'd think the running costs of the new factories are lower than that of the Derby site

 

[Beemax]

Presumably, if TfL purchase a few more trains for the Elizabeth line (to provide extra connections to Old Oak Common) they would prefer them to be on the Adventra platform rather than mixing them with a new type of train

 

[Trainbike46]

Presumably, if TfL purchase a few more trains for the Elizabeth line (to provide extra connections to Old Oak Common) they would prefer them to be on the Adventra platform rather than mixing them with a new type of train

If TfL orders extra lizzie line trains, I would expect them to be exactly the same as the existing 345s

 

[Samzino]

They'd definitely not want another type of unit if they can afford not to. Would create all kinds of headache.

 

[D365]

Adessia is an umbrella brand for high floor multiple units, including classes previously branded as X'Trapolis and Aventra.

So exactly like ”Desiro”, ”FLIRT” or even ”AT300”.

 

[Magdalia]

Nick Crossfield of Alstom was interviewed on Radio 4 Today at about 0615.

Story now on BBC news website here:

Alstom: Production at train maker set to stop with 3,000 jobs at risk

Alstom says 3,000 jobs in Derby are at risk, adding there would be an impact on the wider supply chain.

www.bbc.co.uk

Production of new stock at the UK's largest rail assembly factory could stop on Thursday, with 3,000 jobs at risk.
Nick Crossfield, managing director of Alstom, said the possible job losses at the Litchurch Lane site in Derby would have a "considerable" impact on the national supply chain.
He said the company could no longer guarantee a presence in the city.
Production is nearing its end, with an 18-month gap until the next order.

 

[Trainbike46]

Nick Crossfield of Alstom was interviewed on Radio 4 Today at about 0615.

Story now on BBC news website here:

Alstom: Production at train maker set to stop with 3,000 jobs at risk

Alstom says 3,000 jobs in Derby are at risk, adding there would be an impact on the wider supply chain.

www.bbc.co.uk

Curious how the number of jobs at risk has increased from 2000 to 3000!