Potential use for Class 769 FLEX

[Stephen Lee]

I wondered apart from Transport For Wales/GWR/Northern/ROG which company can consider for Class 769s.......

 

[Speed43125]

I wondered apart from Transport For Wales/GWR/Northern/ROG which company can consider for Class 769s.......

Do you mean ordering new trains to be converted? or are we suggesting future uses for TfW stock after they get replaced?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do you mean ordering new trains to be converted? or are we suggesting future uses for TfW stock after they get replaced?

If we mean the latter, parcel them off to Northern.

 

[Stephen Lee]

Thanks for your question I was just asking what operators can use Class 769s

 

[LOL The Irony]

If we mean the latter, parcel them off to Northern.

No thanks.

 

[Domh245]

There's a difference between "needs bi-modes" and "needs 769s". Arguably any sort of service operating with a moderate distance under the wires should go over to some sort of bi-modes but in many cases (particularly SWR & WMR) they should be new build IMO, or at the very least of a much higher quality than a 769 could be.

 

[Speed43125]

No thanks.

Electrify a bit more and get the remaining 323s?

 

[Energy]

Where is the option for razer blades? 769s aren't the only option for bimode commuter trains, Bombardier offer a bimode aventra, Stadler flirts are an option, CAF offer bimode civitys and all of them are far better than the 769.

 

[Speed43125]

Where is the option for razer blades? 769s aren't the only option for bimode commuter trains, Bombardier offer a bimode aventra, Stadler flirts are an option, CAF offer bimode civitys and all of them are far better than the 769.

Of course, but 769s, like the 230s are much cheaper. Whether that niche has worked is up to debate.

 

[Energy]

Of course, but 769s, like the 230s are much cheaper. Whether that niche has worked is up to debate.

Ofcourse but the 230s are refurbished a lot better, the routes which need cheaper stock would be fine with 230s. The routes suggested on this thread would be able to get new stock.

 

[Speed43125]

Ofcourse but the 230s are refurbished a lot better, the routes which need cheaper stock would be fine with 230s. The routes suggested on this thread would be able to get new stock.

I agree, there aren't many routes at all that would be suited to 769s were they haven't already been considered. 230s are probably held back by their top speed which is just too slow for anything but a backwater branchline as well as being the victim of bad timing within the famine and feast approach to commissioning new rolling stock in this country (same probably applies to 769s)

 

[brad465]

SWR could utilise bi-modes very well, but I wouldn't choose 769s. A new build with 3rd rail + diesel/alternative fuel would be better, or in a better dream world (as very unlikely in near future), OHLE electrify the WEML and Romsey centred lines and have dual voltage electrics.

 

[PG]

Southern could possibly take them for the Marshlink line though I'm still doubtful of that being the best option.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

I'm not sure if this is the right thread for what I'm putting but if it was me, I'd transfer some of the 769's from TfW to GWR when TfW have finished with them and use them on the remaining routes through the Thames Valley services that are Turbo-worked and run through, to and from Didcot Parkway. It would mean everything out of London Paddington except the sleepers is electric.

It would mean more Turbos for Bristol and spare Turbos for special event days.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not sure if this is the right thread for what I'm putting but if it was me, I'd transfer some of the 769's from TfW to GWR when TfW have finished with them and use them on the remaining routes through the Thames Valley services that are Turbo-worked and run through, to and from Didcot Parkway. It would mean everything out of London Paddington except the sleepers is electric.

It would mean more Turbos for Bristol and spare Turbos for special event days.

A use for them for GWR would be that the Oxford stopper could revert to being a through service to Paddington.

 

[PG]

Also on GWR since the Severn Tunnel is still a diesel island for a while then they could use them for events in Cardiff for which the use of 379's were planned to be used on.

 

[Domh245]

Also on GWR since the Severn Tunnel is still a diesel island for a while then they could use them for events in Cardiff for which the use of 379's were planned to be used on.

All restrictions are removed in a couple of weeks based on the latest in the GW Electrification thread. They've already got the signage up for the 387s in Cardiff, so they're clearly expecting it to be available shortly, definitely before any 769s will enter service!

 

[JonathanH]

A use for them for GWR would be that the Oxford stopper could revert to being a through service to Paddington.

I'm not sure they would want to consider that at all. The loss of performance relative to 387s and 345s east of Reading would destroy the timetable.

 

[Energy]

I'm not sure they would want to consider that at all. The loss of performance relative to 387s and 345s east of Reading would destroy the timetable.

aren't 319s not great after 90 mph? Well they aren't that good in comparison bellow 90mph anyway and the extra weight from the 769 conversion would make it worse.

 

[JonathanH]

I'm not sure if this is the right thread for what I'm putting but if it was me, I'd transfer some of the 769's from TfW to GWR when TfW have finished with them and use them on the remaining routes through the Thames Valley services that are Turbo-worked and run through, to and from Didcot Parkway. It would mean everything out of London Paddington except the sleepers is electric.

It would mean more Turbos for Bristol and spare Turbos for special event days.

There essentially aren't any such Turbo services out of Paddington now. A 769 can't work to Greenford and all trains to Didcot are 387s. Once the GWR 769s arrive there are only nine 2-car Turbo workings at Reading. One for Greenford, Marlow, Windsor, peak and evening Newbury to Bedwyn shuttles and the ones working around Oxford. I guess that the reason GWR had an option for a slightly larger fleet in the first place (23 instead of 19) was to allow their use around Oxford but that never would have involved running (in service) east of Reading.

 

[HST43257]

For Northern, I don’t see why they wouldn’t put 769s on the Manchester Airport to Windermere/Barrow services instead of the 195s they now use on it.

 

[LOL The Irony]

For Northern, I don’t see why they wouldn’t put 769s on the Manchester Airport to Windermere/Barrow services instead of the 195s they now use on it.

Unsuitable interiors and sound deadening?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Unsuitable interiors and sound deadening?

They could swap the seats. I would agree this route is ideal for bi-modes, though it'll be interesting to see if the battery 331s will have enough capacity to run this in which case they would be better.

 

[TheWalrus]

A use for them for GWR would be that the Oxford stopper could revert to being a through service to Paddington.

What would be the benefit of that? Passengers from Radley and Culham would be able to change at Didcot for much faster services to Reading and London. Personally I would like to see them extended to Cardiff 1tph but that’s just a personal aspiration!

 

[Bletchleyite]

What would be the benefit of that?

People like direct services?

 

[TheWalrus]

People like direct services?

What direct journeys are you thinking? Not sure people will spend 2 hours on a 769 when they can spend roughly an hour with one change.

 

[JonathanH]

People like direct services?

GWR run through stopping services from Oxford to Reading in the peak - that is pretty much as far as anyone needs a direct service from Radley, Culham or Appleford given the time difference between sitting on one train all the way to Paddington and changing at Didcot or Reading.

The splitting of services at Didcot has been a 'blessing in disguise' for the structure of these services.

 

[43096]

They could swap the seats. I would agree this route is ideal for bi-modes, though it'll be interesting to see if the battery 331s will have enough capacity to run this in which case they would be better.

Given the time taken to deliver the 769s, Northern would have been better off binning the 769 idea and getting a few more 4-car 755s á la Anglia. Possibly 4-car but with only 2 engines as they only need match Sprinter performance on the diesel bits.

Yes, it's another fleet type, but the 769s will be non-standard too once the extra 323s arrive. We'd then get to compare the CAF and Stadler products directly - I know where my money would be for the higher quality.

 

[TheWalrus]

GWR run through stopping services from Oxford to Reading in the peak - that is pretty much as far as anyone needs a direct service from Radley, Culham or Appleford given the time difference between sitting on one train all the way to Paddington and changing at Didcot or Reading.

The splitting of services at Didcot has been a 'blessing in disguise' for the structure of these services.

Also I’m sure they had longer layovers at Didcot when they were through workings?

 

[pompeyfan]

Seeing as we’re being speculative, SWR could use them for a new semi fast service from Portsmouth to Salisbury, and at the same time change the rocket 6 services back to starting and finishing at Totton. I can’t think of any actual benefits of running it as a ‘6’, although I’m sure it’s obvious once pointed out, unless it’s to provide a direct fast service from Millbrook and Redbridge to Romsey and Salisbury and avoid the slog via Chandlers ford.